Animals in heaven?

[JCnMe]

JkSoren… I wasn’t going to bother with this because of the ignorance of it all-but it can’t be left the way it is…where in the world did you get ANY reference to the transmigration of souls in my statement…???.. …ALL authorities of the Church acknowledge that animals have souls…my statement that God chose to make her human instead of the quail has nothing to do with transmigration of souls… or do you believe the soul acted independently of God when it chose her or you…that certainly would explain a few things…

 

[Sir_Knight]

Are you IMPLYING that you have PRIVATE revelation from God on this matter? May I remind you that that is a violation of forum rules – no unapproved private revelation may be discussed on this board.

It doesn’t take a revelation to realize that you appear to be a very strange person.

And what does it show about you when you insult other members, implying that you have private revelations from unapproved sources which conflict with church teaching and are in violation of board rules to post?

 

[Sir_Knight]

SirKnight- show me a Pope that has said they wouldn’t…and as far as the Church-they have not said because they don’t know-but they have canonized Saints who lived for and believed in the blessings of the animals…if that was heresy- they would have been burned or chastised for their beliefs
Let’s suffice it to say that you will never convince me that they don’t because of what I know to be true- and I will never convince you that they will because of what you want to believe is true…God Bless

Why then, don’t we baptize our pets? What about the animals that kill others? For example, a pitbull that was raised for dog fighting? He was conditioned to be a bad dog in the same manner that humans who are exposed to negative influence are conditioned to become bad people.

Will those bad animals go to heaven too? If Jesus, then that is unfair to humans. If no, then it would be unfair to animals because humans can confess their sins while animals can not.

Either approach is unfair and isn’t our God an ALL-just God? How could He allow such unfairness?

 

[JKsoren]

JkSoren… I wasn’t going to bother with this because of the ignorance of it all-but it can’t be left the way it is…where in the world did you get ANY reference to the transmigration of souls in my statement…???.. …ALL authorities of the Church acknowledge that animals have souls…my statement that God chose to make her human instead of the quail has nothing to do with transmigration of souls… or do you believe the soul acted independently of God when it chose her or you…that certainly would explain a few things…

Its pretty clear that you didn’t understand what I actually said.

 

[JCnMe]

JKSoren-…no, its painfully clear that you had no understanding of mine…

 

[JCnMe]

SirKnight…there is a blessing of the animals under St Francis…they do not need to be baptized - and now you are just being thick and combative…we have covered those reasons over and over again on this board- your lack of comprehension does not mean God will not gather them to Him as His creation with a soul that loves and gives love in return…if you believe that to be unjust- I suggest you tell God that- and see what response you get-…its’ the only one you will believe-but of course He’ll have to PROVE He’s God before you’ll listen…LOL

 

[Stella_Matutina]

(((Stella))))…and now you are saying …what-that even the Angels won’t be with us in Heaven?

I never said anything of the sort. I am saying that the union that we have with God through the sacraments is unique.

And JKsoren’s point about it being impossible for me to be the quail is what I as trying to say earlier too. If I were the quail, I would no longer be me, because part of being me is that I am a human person. This is essential to my existence.

I would like to ask why you haven’t answered any of JKsoren’s questions? Like, are you a vegetarian? (Maybe you don’t want to answer because you believe somehow it is irrelevant to the discussion of animals being in Heaven… if this is the case please explain.)

I would especially like to hear the answers to these questions:

JKsoren:

If God loves animals in the exact way that you say, as if they were people, then how do you think God would feel about you killing and eating a cow, which God (as you say) has created for interpersonal love with himself?

and

JKsoren:

I understand that you would protect a pet with your life if they were threatened…but let me ask you this, suppose that you had to choose between the life of say, myself, and your dog…which would you choose if you could only save one life? Why?

 

[JCnMe]

Stella…JkSoren and I had a very similar conversation as you and I have had…go back and read the posts if you need to-but read the whole posts in context- not the butchered variety that gets posted to supposedly prove a point…what I am or am not has nothing to do with whether animals go to Heaven…God has allowed what can be used for food and I am not questioning God-nor am I questioning whether you need to be a vegetarian or not- I am questioning your inability to believe that God loves animals enough to take them home after they pass-you almost sound jealous that God has enough love to do that-to think that you are just going to be sitting on a cloud with a smile on your face for eternity with nothing but those that think like you around is a little naive and short sighted… God and Jesus have told us what Heaven is like…so above- so below…but to get there you have to know Love…God is Love…God loves man and all His creation- I have no doubt that those of His creation that can feel and return that love will be there too-that of course-eliminates those that can’t…God Bless

 

[Sir_Knight]

SirKnight…there is a blessing of the animals under St Francis…they do not need to be baptized

There is also a blessing of automobiles under Saint Christopher but that doesn’t mean that cars are going to go to heaven.

• and now you are just being thick and combative…

And you are not?

we have covered those reasons over and over again on this board-

Then please be so kind as to explain to me again how an ALL-just God would allow one part of creation to be tested and subject to eternal punishment if they failed the test and allow another part of creation a free pass to the same eternal reward as the first group without exposing them to any of the dangers of failure?

your lack of comprehension does not mean God will not gather them to Him as His creation with a soul that loves and gives love in return…if you believe that to be unjust- I suggest you tell God that- and see what response you get-…its’ the only one you will believe-but of course He’ll have to PROVE He’s God before you’ll listen…LOL

And you are merely expressing your opinion – an opinion, I might add, which is not supported by church teaching …

Endowed with “a spiritual and immortal” soul, the human person is “the only creature on earth that God has willed for its own sake.” From his conception, he is destined for eternal beatitude.

… Part 3, Section 1, Chapter 1, Article 1, Paragraph 1703 of the Catholic Church Catechism.​

 

[Stella_Matutina]

I am questioning your inability to believe that God loves animals enough to take them home after they pass-you almost sound jealous that God has enough love to do that-to think that you are just going to be sitting on a cloud with a smile on your face for eternity with nothing but those that think like you around is a little naive and short sighted…

I have not asserted anything about what Heaven will be like. You are putting words in my mouth. I never even said that animals will not be Heaven.

And alas, you still have not answered the questions. Whatever God wills I know is ultimate justice. Who am I to question Him? I’m not asking about God’s love for animals- I’m asking about your love for them. You seem to love them just as much as a human person. Am I wrong?

 

[Sir_Knight]

God loves animals enough to take them home after they pass-you almost sound jealous that God has enough love to do that-to think that you are just going to be sitting on a cloud with a smile on your face for eternity with nothing but those that think like you around is a little naive and short sighted… God and Jesus have told us what Heaven is like…so above- so below…but to get there you have to know Love…God is Love…God loves man and all His creation- I have no doubt that those of His creation that can feel and return that love will be there too-that of course-eliminates those that can’t…God Bless

By continuing to post comments which conflict with Church teaching (reference my post above to see how your comments are not in keeping with what is taught by the Church), you are coming very close to committing Heresy – “the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same” (see Part 3, Section 2, Chapter 1, Article 1, SubSection 1, Heading 1, Paragraph 2089 of the Catholic Church Catechism).

 

[Sir_Knight]

I have not asserted anything about what Heaven will be like. You are putting words in my mouth. I never even said that animals will not be Heaven.

And alas, you still have not answered the questions. Whatever God wills I know is ultimate justice. Who am I to question Him? I’m not asking about God’s love for animals- I’m asking about your love for them. You seem to love them just as much as a human person. Am I wrong?

Stella, it all comes down to whether or not we believe church teaching or follow our OWN feelings on the matter. Jesus made it very clear when He said that those that hear the ones that He sends, hear HIM and those that reject the ones that He sends, reject HIM.

The Church, in the CCC, which represents the official teachings of the church according to the introduction by the Pope, is very clear that ONLY mankind has an immortal soul.

As you can see, some folks around hear refuse to listen to the church and by doing so, they are refusing to listen to Christ.

Prosit.

 

[JCnMe]

(((Stella)))…animals in Heaven IS what this thread is all about-did you get lost?

 

[Stella_Matutina]

(((Stella)))…animals in Heaven IS what this thread is all about-did you get lost?

How did I know you weren’t going to answer my questions…

Determining wether or not you hold animals in equal or greater affection than human persons is vitally important to how I interpret your claims regarding animals in Heaven- so no, I did not get lost.

 

[JCnMe]

SirKNight…if I’m bordering on heresy by disagreeing with you-than I am good company, because many Popes and Saints agree with my words about the animals being one of God’s most precious creations…we can keep going round and round about this- but man fell from grace the animals didn’t-therefore man has had to do a little footwork to get back in God’s good graces…God however took mercy on us because we weren’t doing a very good job of it and gave us a pass with Jesus and set the example with His life for us to emulate…if the animals had fallen from grace-they too would have had crosses to bear-…however if you look at how animals have borne the brunt of inhumane treatment by being close to man-then some would say they too have paid for our sins …

 

[JCnMe]

(((Stella)))- do you love all people?..of course not… but I’m sure you respect the fact that God does…I feel the same way

 

[Sir_Knight]

SirKNight…if I’m bordering on heresy by disagreeing with you-than I am good company, because many Popes and Saints agree with my words about the animals being one of God’s most precious creations…we can keep going round and round about this- but man fell from grace the animals didn’t-therefore man has had to do a little footwork to get back in God’s good graces…God however took mercy on us because we weren’t doing a very good job of it and gave us a pass with Jesus and set the example with His life for us to emulate…if the animals had fallen from grace-they too would have had crosses to bear-…however if you look at how animals have borne the brunt of inhumane treatment by being close to man-then some would say they too have paid for our sins …

You are not just disagreeing with me but with official church teaching (as I outlined above) and THAT places you in the company of some not so nice people.

And show me one Pope or one Saint that said that animals have an IMMORTAL soul and/or that animals will go to heaven.

 

[JCnMe]

SirKnight promoting the LOVE of GOD does not go against Church teaching…and your continual circular reasoning shows you have no answers and nothing new to add to your argument…I have shown you that many Popes and Saints agree animals have souls-…show me where God has said you have a soul different from an animal…not a different species…but where we go on and they don’t

 

[Sir_Knight]

many Popes and Saints agree with my words about the animals being one of God’s most precious creations

I’m not arguing that point. I’ve been a dog owner since the age of six – 40+ years! Right now I own two of them. But that is not the point. Nor is it the point that some saints & Popes considered animals to be “one of God’s most precious creations”. The issue is whether any of them ever officially stated that they have an IMMORTAL soul and thus go to heaven?

The CCC, the official teaching of the church, states that they don’t because it says that the ONLY creature on THIS earth with an immortal soul is mankind.

 

[Sir_Knight]

SirKnight promoting the LOVE of GOD does not go against Church teaching…

Saying that an animal has an immortal soul when the church says that only mankind has an immortal soul IS going against church teaching and that is the definition of heresy – a very serious offense.

and your continual circular reasoning shows you have no answers and nothing new to add to your argument…

I think that you are a little confused – which might explain a lot. I have presented church references showing that animals do not have an immortal soul. You have not countered that but merely said that they are precious creature and God is love and therefore animals go to heaven. Sorry, that doesn’t cut it.

If you are correct, then the Catholic Church is wrong in it’s teaching. Sorry, but I’m siding with the church on this over you.

I have shown you that many Popes and Saints agree animals have souls-…

Yes, they have souls but they do not have immortal souls as the CCC clearly states which means that the soul dies with the body – THAT is church teaching on this matter.

show me where God has said you have a soul different from an animal…not a different species…but where we go on and they don’t

In Luke 10:16, Jesus tells His apostles, “he who hears you, hears ME” and the successors of the apostles, through the CCC, which represents the OFFICIAL teaching of the church, state that ONLY mankind has an IMMORTAL soul – Part 3, Section 1, Chapter 1, Article 1, Paragraph 1703 of the Catholic Church Catechism.