Animals You Eat: Bad Meat!

[yellowbird]

My family has purchased a bunch of chickens to use as meat and egg layers. They will be in a moveable, covered pen so that they can get plenty of sunshine, bugs and have room.

Eventually we will humanely dispatch some of the chickens with an axe. We’ve done this before and home grown chicken is very good.

Our chickens do lead a good life before their very quick deaths.

I’m so jealous! I’d love to raise my own chickens!!!

 

[Sair]

Properly farmed animals are not abused. Peta finds extreme cases and exploits them as typical, when they are not.

God gave man dominion over all - including animals.

Okay, I’ll bite. Anti-choicers also take the most extreme cases and exploit them for emotional impact, even though they are not typical. Over 90% of abortions take place before the foetus is capable of feeling pain, and therefore does not suffer.

This does not change the fact that abuses take place in either situation, nor that they should be abolished. Abuse is abuse, no matter what species.

 

[deb1]

I’m so jealous! I’d love to raise my own chickens!!!

I wish that I had more land so that I could a little more self sufficient. But acreage is expensive.

 

[deb1]

Okay, I’ll bite. Anti-choicers also take the most extreme cases and exploit them for emotional impact, even though they are not typical. Over 90% of abortions take place before the foetus is capable of feeling pain, and therefore does not suffer.

.

What is an antichoicer? Is that someone who is not for abortion? I have never heard that phrase before.

 

[Sair]

My family has purchased a bunch of chickens to use as meat and egg layers. They will be in a moveable, covered pen so that they can get plenty of sunshine, bugs and have room.

Eventually we will humanely dispatch some of the chickens with an axe. We’ve done this before and home grown chicken is very good.

Our chickens do lead a good life before their very quick deaths.

I salute you. I firmly believe we owe it to the animals who sustain our lives with their meat to respect their lives in turn.

 

[bbarrick8383]

What is an antichoicer? Is that someone who is not for abortion? I have never heard that phrase before.

Pro-Life

Because a human does not suffer does not give anyone the right to kill it. I cant help it if I want to pack my freezer with my cow and the cow felt a little pain before it died.

 

[yellowbird]

Okay, I’ll bite. Anti-choicers also take the most extreme cases and exploit them for emotional impact, even though they are not typical. Over 90% of abortions take place before the foetus is capable of feeling pain, and therefore does not suffer.

This does not change the fact that abuses take place in either situation, nor that they should be abolished. Abuse is abuse, no matter what species.

It doesn’t matter if the unborn child does not suffer. That sooooo isn’t the issue. I could give you anesthesia and then kill you and you wouldn’t feel any pain. Does that make it less wrong? Of course not, it would still be murder.

Just as ending the life of an unborn child, created in the image of God (unlike animals) and given an eternal soul (unlike animals) is murder.

As an atheist, I realize that most of this conversation is lost on you.

 

[Sair]

What is an antichoicer? Is that someone who is not for abortion? I have never heard that phrase before.

It’s political-speak, I’m afraid. Pro-lifers label anyone who is not 100% against abortion as “pro-abortion”. Pro-choicers respond by labelling pro-lifers as “anti-choice”.

 

[Catholic90]

Okay, I’ll bite. Anti-choicers also take the most extreme cases and exploit them for emotional impact, even though they are not typical. Over 90% of abortions take place before the foetus is capable of feeling pain, and therefore does not suffer.

This does not change the fact that abuses take place in either situation, nor that they should be abolished. Abuse is abuse, no matter what species.

What is “anti choice”?

A “fetus” is a human life. Period. Ending that human life is murder. Period.

I do believe in choice, by the way. The choice to 1) have sex or 2) not have sex. And also the choice to make the right decision and allow a human to live or the wrong choice and commit murder.

Peta supporters are “nutters”.

 

[Sair]

Pro-Life

Because a human does not suffer does not give anyone the right to kill it. I cant help it if I want to pack my freezer with my cow and the cow felt a little pain before it died.

Then I have to ask - on what basis, other than a completely arbitrary, speciesist distinction, to you base your objection to killing an unborn, nonsentient human foetus, when you clearly have no objection to killing a fully sentient cow for food?

 

[bbarrick8383]

Then I have to ask - on what basis, other than a completely arbitrary, speciesist distinction, to you base your objection to killing an unborn, nonsentient human foetus, when you clearly have no objection to killing a fully sentient cow for food?

Because I’m hungry and I dont eat babies.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Good points

Thank you.

I guess everyone adopts the issue for which they feel the most affinity. :idea:

Yes, but let me add this caveat, then, as something to think about. Sometimes in the face of outlandish intrinsic evil other things have to take a back seat. A father can’t very well not come to the aid of his family fighting a fire downstairs because he is upstairs signing a petition to end clear-cut logging.

Another example: those on a ship have their appointed tasks, or even the tasks to which they have an affinity for. But when the call comes “all hands!” to help bail out the water, then all hands must join in. The sail-mending, the deck polishing, even the tending of the sick and injured must wait.

VC

 

[yellowbird]

Then I have to ask - on what basis, other than a completely arbitrary, speciesist distinction, to you base your objection to killing an unborn, nonsentient human foetus, when you clearly have no objection to killing a fully sentient cow for food?

God created people in His image. They have an eternal soul.

Animals were not created in the image of God, nor do they have eternal souls.

If it were wrong to kill animals, Jesus would not have fed thousands fish. When God said Thou shalt not kill … he was talking about people. Unborn children ARE people.

It’s hardly arbitrary. But again, as an atheist, this is probably difficult for you to grasp. But this is a Catholic forum… so what did you expect?

 

[Marfran]

I’m having trouble navigating here. I read some replies–can’t seem to find them again. Spent a lot of time responding–lost everything. I was born and raised Catholic. I don’t have an agenda. Christ ate little meat. In his time meat was hunted/harvested immediately. Meat was a rich man’s food. Meat was not frequently on the table, as it is today, because of the lack of refrigeration. Meat did not become a commonplace dietary item until after the INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION. I chose the You Tube video because it is easy to find, and from all of my studies it IS very accurate. Oprah recently had a show on this very topic and included pro-factory farmers and small local farms that did not engage in these cruel practices. EATING MEAT is not as much of the issue as is the treatment of these animals in these mass factory farm conditions. Please view the video–or I can find some other video if you do not like that one. My question is–how can we turn our backs on this? How can we condone this behavior. What would God say about all of this? I can’t imagine Jesus searing off the beaks of 10 living chickens with a hot gun and then stuffing them into a cage to produce eggs for his breakfast. Can you? Would he not let them be free and comfortable and collect any eggs that they desired to give Him? How is it UnCatholic to have these concerns? Perhaps it is UnCatholic to ignore.

 

[pete_29]

Animals are the equal of human beings, EVER. :banghead:

 

[Sair]

It doesn’t matter if the unborn child does not suffer. That sooooo isn’t the issue. I could give you anesthesia and then kill you and you wouldn’t feel any pain. Does that make it less wrong? Of course not, it would still be murder.

Just as ending the life of an unborn child, created in the image of God (unlike animals) and given an eternal soul (unlike animals) is murder.

As an atheist, I realize that most of this conversation is lost on you.

Alas, you’re correct - I have never (even when I was Catholic) seen any basis for supposing that other animals are not endowed with a soul. In fact, I recall saying to my mother once that I would not like to go to any heaven that excluded our dog…and my Mum agreed.

I still need something other than anthropocentrism to justify the notion that humans can do whatever they like to other animals and not really care. And by this I mean more than the Biblical prescription that humans have dominion over the earth. There are two possible interpretations of this: one is that we are stewards of creation, and therefore obliged to take care of it with the same consideration we show to our own kind; the other is that we can use and abuse nature at will, so long as it serves human purposes - and that is easily dismissed as arrogance, and wilful ignorance of consequences that we are already seeing all around us.

Finally, I don’t understand how it is favourable for the human population to keep expanding when it is abundantly clear that the earth cannot support all of us in any tolerable level of comfort. Some have faith in those who are engaged in technological research, but surely that is expecting too much of others when we cannot at least attempte to remedy the problems on our own behalf.

As usual, it is hard to point to any specific problem when all problems are interrelated, and the greatest of them all - human overpopulation - is ignored by those who continue to believe that unfettered human expansion is the ideal.

 

[yellowbird]

I’m having trouble navigating here. I read some replies–can’t seem to find them again. Spent a lot of time responding–lost everything. I was born and raised Catholic. I don’t have an agenda. Christ ate little meat. In his time meat was hunted/harvested immediately. Meat was a rich man’s food. Meat was not frequently on the table, as it is today, because of the lack of refrigeration. Meat did not become a commonplace dietary item until after the INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION. I chose the You Tube video because it is easy to find, and from all of my studies it IS very accurate. Oprah recently had a show on this very topic and included pro-factory farmers and small local farms that did not engage in these cruel practices. EATING MEAT is not as much of the issue as is the treatment of these animals in these mass factory farm conditions. Please view the video–or I can find some other video if you do not like that one. My question is–how can we turn our backs on this? How can we condone this behavior. What would God say about all of this? I can’t imagine Jesus searing off the beaks of 10 living chickens with a hot gun and then stuffing them into a cage to produce eggs for his breakfast. Can you? Would he not let them be free and comfortable and collect any eggs that they desired to give Him? How is it UnCatholic to have these concerns? Perhaps it is UnCatholic to ignore.

Well if it was on Oprah, it must be true.

It isn’t un-Catholic to hold the views you have… but may I ask, are you also passionate about ending the slaughter of the unborn? Sair has already expressed his view that a sheep is more deserving of life than a 3 month old child in his mother’s womb. What are your feelings about that?

It’s been my experience while discussing the morality of eating meat or the treatment of animals, that the non-meat eaters turn a blind eye when it comes to the killing of humans and even think it’s a good thing since it will be one less meat eater on the planet.

And I find that disgusting. More disgusting than the treatment of cows.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Alas, you’re correct - I have never (even when I was Catholic) seen any basis for supposing that other animals are not endowed with a soul. In fact, I recall saying to my mother once that I would not like to go to any heaven that excluded our dog…and my Mum agreed.

I still need something other than anthropocentrism to justify the notion that humans can do whatever they like to other animals and not really care. And by this I mean more than the Biblical prescription that humans have dominion over the earth. There are two possible interpretations of this: one is that we are stewards of creation, and therefore obliged to take care of it with the same consideration we show to our own kind; the other is that we can use and abuse nature at will, so long as it serves human purposes - and that is easily dismissed as arrogance, and wilful ignorance of consequences that we are already seeing all around us.

Finally, I don’t understand how it is favourable for the human population to keep expanding when it is abundantly clear that the earth cannot support all of us in any tolerable level of comfort. Some have faith in those who are engaged in technological research, but surely that is expecting too much of others when we cannot at least attempte to remedy the problems on our own behalf.

As usual, it is hard to point to any specific problem when all problems are interrelated, and the greatest of them all - human overpopulation - is ignored by those who continue to believe that unfettered human expansion is the ideal.

Because I am the big fish(like a shark or killer whale) and animals are the little fish( like a dolphin). If you think grabbing a chicken by the neck and popping it’s head off is gross, you should see what a shark can do.

 

[Sair]

I’m having trouble navigating here. I read some replies–can’t seem to find them again. Spent a lot of time responding–lost everything. I was born and raised Catholic. I don’t have an agenda. Christ ate little meat. In his time meat was hunted/harvested immediately. Meat was a rich man’s food. Meat was not frequently on the table, as it is today, because of the lack of refrigeration. Meat did not become a commonplace dietary item until after the INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION. I chose the You Tube video because it is easy to find, and from all of my studies it IS very accurate. Oprah recently had a show on this very topic and included pro-factory farmers and small local farms that did not engage in these cruel practices. EATING MEAT is not as much of the issue as is the treatment of these animals in these mass factory farm conditions. Please view the video–or I can find some other video if you do not like that one. My question is–how can we turn our backs on this? How can we condone this behavior. What would God say about all of this? I can’t imagine Jesus searing off the beaks of 10 living chickens with a hot gun and then stuffing them into a cage to produce eggs for his breakfast. Can you? Would he not let them be free and comfortable and collect any eggs that they desired to give Him? How is it UnCatholic to have these concerns? Perhaps it is UnCatholic to ignore.

Marfran, I have to say I am totally in agreement with you on this issue. Regardless of whether I think that Jesus was or was not God, I still believe that the historically verifiable evidence points to a man of immense compassion and good sense. With regard to his personal needs, I would think he satisfied them without demanding more than his fair share. I don’t think the historical Jesus would have been intentionally cruel to any creature, human or otherwise. This would go against the spirit of his teaching - especially since, 2,000 years ago, food production methods would, of necessity, have been much more in tune with natural cycles than they are today.

 

[yellowbird]

As usual, it is hard to point to any specific problem when all problems are interrelated, and the greatest of them all - human overpopulation - is ignored by those who continue to believe that unfettered human expansion is the ideal.

The greatest problem is not human overpopulation. The greatest problem is people denying the existance of God and the role He should play in their lives.

I’m so sorry to hear that you used to be Catholic and now you are an atheist. Was you Mum alive to see that happen? If so it must’ve broken her heart? Sorry, as a Mom I can’t even imagine the sadness I would feel if one of my children not only left the Church, but no longer even believed in God.