Animals You Eat: Bad Meat!

[cathybramble]

You response is entirely reasonable and well stated. Yet, it mystifies me that so many of the animal protection advocates are pro-choice. Now that makes no sense to me…

i wrote a blog once comparing the similarities between pro-life meat eaters and pro-choice vegans. it was a fascinating piece that earned me the title of “pariah” all around LOL

there is a selfishness and bodily pleasure seeking that runs at the roots of both excessive meat eating, and the desire to kill the unborn. i think there is also some kind of cognitive dissonance between having compassion for the unborn, and being callous to the suffering of other creatures… and vice versa. it took me 40 years to come to the conclusion that to be pro-life is to care about all of creation, to avoid causing unnecessary harm (to anything), to the best of one’s reasonable ability. our very existence causes harm, but there are ways to reduce it, so i do the best i can. it was very liberating spiritually and mentally. what i have found is that the more compassion i have, the more i get. i honestly believe that when we are stingy with our compassion for other creatures, the less we have for our own kind.

 

[Michaeljc4]

The problem, I think, is violence, whether it is violence directed at the unborn, at animals, at people on death row, or at people during war. Becoming a vegetarian, in a small way, helps to create peace. It’s a personal sacrifice done for the good of other people, and our world. Try and and see!

 

[Cracker_Mom]

if you have absolutely no alternative, then you have to do what you have to do. the killing of God’s creatures has changed quite a lot since Jesus’ time… i doubt God is happy at all with what we are doing to His creatures and the earth He gave us. He allows it but IMO there will be retribution, either here or after death. not one sparrow falls that He doesn’t know about… i think He’ll have plenty to say about the 14 BILLION animals we factory farm every year, the poor who are exploited, and the destruction of the environment that our gluttony is causing.

the biggest problem i think… is that we have been lied to. we have been told all our lives that we must eat meat and dairy in order to be healthy. there is a huge push right now to re-do the USDA food pyramid to change names like “meat group” to “protein group” because it’s misleading and biased to the meat industry. the government has no business telling us how to get our protein if one form is as good as another (and it is). the government has pandered to the meat and dairy industries to keep our GNP up and help the economy… but the result is millions of uninsured americans with diet-related illnesses that they will die from, and we see that obama wants to provide government-funded insurance to them. you see, we will all pay, one way or another.

wal-mart and america’s poor are a vicious cycle that needs to be broken, that’s a whole different topic .

I appreciate WalMart & economically speaking, they help low income Americans.We were all thrilled to death when a WalMart finally opened in the next county. I hate their parking lots, but appreciate the huge amount of money we save.
Family owned stores are all well & good but when you live in a rural area you have little choice where to shop & can get gouged.Which translates to exploitation of the poor in my book.
Meat, WalMart, & large scale livestock production are not evil.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

It should remain a luxury. While I want you and your children to be healthy, the price meat consumption exacts on other poor people far outweighs any health benefit you may incur by eating meat. Meat, as it is currently produced for the majority of Americans, is full of hormones, antibiotics, and other nastiness. You don’t have to take my word for it: look all of this up for yourself, then decide what’s best for your and your kids.

One thing to add: becoming a vegetarian has made me really think about what I eat. I’ve lost ten pounds just by skipping out on meat and eating healthier. Yet another benefit of vegetarianism.

Baloney.It amazes me that folks want to dictate what the “poor” consume.And feel they know what’s best for them.
I’ve raised livestock & the government is making that harder & less profitable yearly.
Please refrain from eating meat if you must, but save the enlightenment stuff.We just want to be able to afford a cookout occasionally.Minus lectures.

 

[Michaeljc4]

Baloney.It amazes me that folks want to dictate what the “poor” consume.And feel they know what’s best for them.
I’ve raised livestock & the government is making that harder & less profitable yearly.
Please refrain from eating meat if you must, but save the enlightenment stuff.We just want to be able to afford a cookout occasionally.Minus lectures.

‘Lecture’? I thought this was a discussion. In a lecture, you wouldn’t have the opportunity to accuse me of wanting to ‘dictate what the poor consume,’ which is false, of course. I’ve merely given my opinion, and–where appropritate-- backed it up with fact.

Take it or leave it, Crackermom.

Baloney, by the way, is very tasty but utterly bad for you.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

The problem, I think, is violence, whether it is violence directed at the unborn, at animals, at people on death row, or at people during war. Becoming a vegetarian, in a small way, helps to create peace. It’s a personal sacrifice done for the good of other people, and our world. Try and and see!

Maybe you should try a personal sacrifice to give glory to God. God seems to be missing in this vegan sacrifice for the good of all people, spin.

Has anyone else notice it?..

For the animals, for peace, for the poor(but not really), for my health, why doesn’t God play must of a larger role in this train of thought? It’s more about what makes “me” feel good about myself.

 

[cathybramble]

Maybe you should try a personal sacrifice to give glory to God. God seems to be missing in this vegan sacrifice for the good of all people, spin.

Has anyone else notice it?..

For the animals, for peace, for the poor(but not really), for my health, why doesn’t God play must of a larger role in this train of thought? It’s more about what makes “me” feel good about myself.

what do you recommend as a personal sacrifice? i think you should give us some tips since you don’t feel that we do enough glory to God.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

The problem, I think, is violence, whether it is violence directed at the unborn, at animals, at people on death row, or at people during war. Becoming a vegetarian, in a small way, helps to create peace. It’s a personal sacrifice done for the good of other people, and our world. Try and and see!

What about the violence done to the plants that you consume?!

Violence must only happen in your eyes to animals and humans. That is so convenient for your position. One side and yes very convenient.

Consider the lives of the migrant workers that must pick and plant your organically grown foods, the over abundance of land that must be cleared to have adequate food production labeled as organic crops. Consider the lives of the children that harvest your almonds and cashews from foreign lands. Consider all those things before you declare to all that you live for PEACE.

Your position is really no better than the guys that go out hunting for food on the weekends. Sorry to be the one that points that out to you, but someone needs to. Just because you believe something to be true and have one sided resources to back up your position doesn’t bring your position any closer to being " truth".

Why not seek to see the beauty in all opinions and not just your own? That would facilitate, Peace.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

‘Lecture’? I thought this was a discussion. In a lecture, you wouldn’t have the opportunity to accuse me of wanting to ‘dictate what the poor consume,’ which is false, of course. I’ve merely given my opinion, and–where appropritate-- backed it up with fact.

Take it or leave it, Crackermom.

Baloney, by the way, is very tasty but utterly bad for you.

I’ll leave it.
The poor seem to be involved in this thread whether we like it or not (mostly not.) I think telling working class families that meat should remain a luxury when we can barely afford it now is a bit over the top & patronizing. Chicken & pork raised in large scale operations remain the only affordable meats these days.
Deer hunting remains one way rural folk can provide protein to their families but animal rights groups are trying to curtail that as well.
Deermeat baloney by the way is even better tasting.

 

[cathybramble]

Baloney.It amazes me that folks want to dictate what the “poor” consume.And feel they know what’s best for them.
I’ve raised livestock & the government is making that harder & less profitable yearly.
Please refrain from eating meat if you must, but save the enlightenment stuff.We just want to be able to afford a cookout occasionally.Minus lectures.

i don’t think anyone is trying to dictate what the poor consume. but there are people poorer than you who suffer greatly just because of america’s demand for meat. worldwide 100,000 people will starve today… for a fraction of the resources it takes to raise meat for everyone’s BBQ’s, we could feed them all. so who is dictating what to the poor?

 

[Sean_Boyle]

i just think it’s remarkable that someone who enjoys killing, dismembering, and skinning God’s creatures says that being vegan is going to “insane” lengths. methink perhaps you are not the best judge of what is “sane” and what is not.

Or unless you enjoy the taste of meat.

 

[cathybramble]

What about the violence done to the plants that you consume?!

Violence must only happen in your eyes to animals and humans. That is so convenient for your position. One side and yes very convenient.

Consider the lives of the migrant workers that must pick and plant your organically grown foods, the over abundance of land that must be cleared to have adequate food production labeled as organic crops. Consider the lives of the children that harvest your almonds and cashews from foreign lands. Consider all those things before you declare to all that you live for PEACE.

Your position is really no better than the guys that go out hunting for food on the weekends. Sorry to be the one that points that out to you, but someone needs to. Just because you believe something to be true and have one sided resources to back up your position doesn’t bring your position any closer to being " truth".

Why not seek to see the beauty in all opinions and not just your own? That would facilitate, Peace.

if a plant ever tries to get away when i go to pick it or cries out when it is stabbed, i will let it go. FYI, raising meat damages MANY more plants than just eating them outright, so if you’re worried about that, you might take it into consideration.

as for the rain forests, you know the soy they are growing organically on clear cut land… is being used to feed livestock. so if you’re worried about that (and i am, personally), you should probably take that into consideration as well.

now why can’t i see beauty in all opinions? because some of them are false. i see beauty in those who express them, but if you are going to enter a discussion about something, you should arm yourself with some knowledge about it. do you think it’s charitable to let someone wallow in ignorance? i don’t.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

do you think it’s charitable to let someone wallow in ignorance? i don’t.

No it’s not. That’s why I’m here.

 

[cathybramble]

I believe that the phase “enjoys” describes the satisfaction of doing hard and sometimes undesirable work to bring food to the dinner table so as to nourish your family and share in the natural interaction of a family at dinner time.

yeah like… growing vegetables in a garden or do you feel that a family can’t be nourished that way, and can’t share in natural interaction unless they are eating a dead animal?

Now some people don’t understand the value of hard but necessary work nor the value of having family to share a meal with. Life has become so easy to some in this country that now people must create hardships for themselves to feel alive. How crazy is that? Those people can only see the word “enjoy” as bringing pleasure to oneself. Your welcome for the eye opener.

Life is about more than what makes you happy!

create hardships? bringing pleasure from it? such as… “doing hard and sometimes undesirable work to bring food to the dinner table” and getting satisfaction from it ? i’m afraid i am totally missing your point in this post.

 

[cathybramble]

No it’s not. That’s why I’m here.

good!! in that case i hope you learn something

 

[Michaeljc4]

Maybe you should try a personal sacrifice to give glory to God. God seems to be missing in this vegan sacrifice for the good of all people, spin.

Has anyone else notice it?..

For the animals, for peace, for the poor(but not really), for my health, why doesn’t God play must of a larger role in this train of thought? It’s more about what makes “me” feel good about myself.

By all means, provide specific examples from what I wrote that highlight my lack of personal sacrifice and my ‘not real’ concerns for the poor…which has everything to do with my faith in a just, peaceful, loving God. I’ll wait right here:

 

[GottaKnow]

What about the violence done to the plants that you consume?!

.

I know this is a joke, right? You can’t possibly be serious.

 

[Michaeljc4]

What about the violence done to the plants that you consume?!

Violence must only happen in your eyes to animals and humans. That is so convenient for your position. One side and yes very convenient.

Consider the lives of the migrant workers that must pick and plant your organically grown foods, the over abundance of land that must be cleared to have adequate food production labeled as organic crops. Consider the lives of the children that harvest your almonds and cashews from foreign lands. Consider all those things before you declare to all that you live for PEACE.

Your position is really no better than the guys that go out hunting for food on the weekends. Sorry to be the one that points that out to you, but someone needs to. Just because you believe something to be true and have one sided resources to back up your position doesn’t bring your position any closer to being " truth".

Why not seek to see the beauty in all opinions and not just your own? That would facilitate, Peace.

What remarkable assertions! I do draw a distinction between eating plants and eating animals. If plants suffer when they are harvested, I am unaware of it. Is there some scientific literature you could direct me to, Sean? I’d be interested in seeing it.

And your points about who, and how, food is harvested are quite on target. Unable to grow enough food for myself and my family, I am forced to make choices about what I eat. I choose the path that, to me, offers the least violence, suffering, pollution, and evil. Clearly you’ve made other choices. That’s your right.

I wish I could say that I only live for peace, Sean, but like you, I am a sinner and I fall far short of God’s glory. I can only do the best that I can do, and make informed decisions that, while imperfect, are pointing toward what I believe (I hope!) is the Kingdom of God. Peace is hard, hard stuff, and it doesn’t come naturally to me. Still, I try.

I get the sense, reading through this long thread, that people are feeling a bit defensive about eating meat. I wonder why that is? I haven’t honestly read every post, but for my own purposes, I’m just trying to have conversation.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

i don’t think anyone is trying to dictate what the poor consume. but there are people poorer than you who suffer greatly just because of america’s demand for meat. worldwide 100,000 people will starve today… for a fraction of the resources it takes to raise meat for everyone’s BBQ’s, we could feed them all. so who is dictating what to the poor?

I would say the folks who support this thread are attempting to dictate where working class & other struggling Americans shop & what they eat.
Folks in other countries do not starve because of Americans but rather because of corruption in their govts. We are the most generous of nations.

 

[Michaeljc4]

I would say the folks who support this thread are attempting to dictate where working class & other struggling Americans shop & what they eat.
Folks in other countries do not starve because of Americans but rather because of corruption in their govts. We are the most generous of nations.

Cracker Mom, I don’t get the ‘dictate’ part. Who is telling you what to do? Who is trying to force you from eating what you like? We are just talking, or at least, I hope that’s what we are doing.

And I’ll have to take your word about deer baloney.