Animals

[bjcsfo]

I have been a having a “debate” with a Bible Christian and would like to know if there is a Bible quote to answer them. I was taught that animals when they die do not go to Heaven that they cannot merit it only people can. This person disagreed with me. Many priests have told me this thru the years but that doesn’t count in this case, there needs to be a Biblical quote to back up this claim. Can anyone help me here? Thanks in advance

 

[Hereswith]

I have no answer for you, but I think it’s interesting that so many accounts of near-death experiences involve seeing previously deceased pets. And, I’m not sure I want to be in a Heaven where there are no animals.

I think it would be difficult for your friend to present Biblical evidence that animals go to heaven, and I think it would be difficult for you to present Biblical evidence that they do not. Just my two cents.

 

[NotWorthy]

Jesus came to earth to redeem mankind, not the animal kingdom. I’m sorry, but animals don’t have the same kinds of souls that we have.

 

[Bookcat]

I have been a having a “debate” with a Bible Christian and would like to know if there is a Bible quote to answer them. I was taught that animals when they die do not go to Heaven that they cannot merit it only people can. This person disagreed with me. Many priests have told me this thru the years but that doesn’t count in this case, there needs to be a Biblical quote to back up this claim. Can anyone help me here? Thanks in advance

Of course initial justification…via faith and baptism…by grace is a gift from God…not something I merit or my cat…(just a little clarification for your debate…though of course one must remain in that state of justification…in living charity …more detail elsewhere)

But such is not offered to my Cat. Jesus came to save men not the felines…though all of creation waits for the revelation of the sons of God…and will be new…

of course though …if I wish…God may perhaps re-create my cat in a way for me in the new heavens and the new earth after the Resurrection…

 

[Hereswith]

Jesus came to earth to redeem mankind, not the animal kingdom. I’m sorry, but animals don’t have the same kinds of souls that we have.

Says who?

I am a licenced veterinary nurse. I have been with animals as they died plenty of times. I live with four dogs who are my best friends, and believe me they have souls. I think their souls are different, as you say, but different does not mean inferior.

Christ came to save mankind. Did it ever occur to you that animals did not need saving in the first place? Perhaps Heaven has always been open to them. In my gut, I feel it has.

In the end, you can’t prove animals are not in Heaven, and I can’t prove they are. We are both left with our gut feelings.

 

[Joseph629]

Hi bjcsfo,

The simple answer to your question is that we, no one, knows the consequence for animals after their mortal death. Fr Groeschel said that he “likes to think that our pets will exist in the after-life”, but there is no ***‘CLEAR’ ***Church teaching either way. I bet even Pope Benedict would like to think that his cats will survive. So, I guess you’ll just have to wait and SEEEEEEE.

 

[NotWorthy]

Says who?

I am a licenced veterinary nurse. I have been with animals as they died plenty of times. I live with four dogs who are my best friends, and believe me they have souls. I think their souls are different, as you say, but different does not mean inferior.

Christ came to save mankind. Did it ever occur to you that animals did not need saving in the first place? Perhaps Heaven has always been open to them. In my gut, I feel it has.

In the end, you can’t prove animals are not in Heaven, and I can’t prove they are. We are both left with our gut feelings.

No, I am left with Church teaching. My gut does not matter one way or another, nor does my gut affect the truth. All that My Gut Feeling proves is that I want something to be true.

 

[Mintaka]

Actually, all Creation is groaning to be saved. (I think Paul said that.) Animals and plants and even dirt fell when humans fell, because humans were in charge of Earth and dragged it all down. If they hadn’t fallen, they wouldn’t die or feel pain or have less than perfect lives.

As for souls and animals… well, St. Thomas Aquinas was of opinion that all living things had souls, but only humans had immortal souls. This is a pretty common opinion in the history of the Church.

But of course, Heaven is only temporary for us until the general Resurrection and Judgment and all that, so that’s not even the real question.

Either way, it is possible that, since Jesus died and rose again, saving all of Creation, that pets and other animals do not die forever. God knows and remembers all things, and can re-create all that He has created. He likes His creations, and He is generous. So if He wants animal souls in Heaven, He certainly could do it.

But what we know is that there will be animals in the new heaven and new earth, even if we don’t know that about Heaven. (The lion will lay down with the lamb, remember?) So it’s quite possible that our pets will be part of that. Not certain – but not out of the question.

So who knows?

 

[Godscre]

I have been a having a “debate” with a Bible Christian and would like to know if there is a Bible quote to answer them. I was taught that animals when they die do not go to Heaven that they cannot merit it only people can. This person disagreed with me. Many priests have told me this thru the years but that doesn’t count in this case, there needs to be a Biblical quote to back up this claim. Can anyone help me here? Thanks in advance

Jesus is coming back on a white horse.
Col. 1:20 says that Jesus redeemed all creatures by His blood on the cross.

Mary Buddemeyer-Porter, has written books about eternal life for animals - she is a Biblical scholar who has studied this subject for many years. Her publications can be found on Eden Publications.

Jan
Catholic Concern for Animals-USA

 

[Sir_Knight]

Ask yourself this question: would an ALL-just God subject humans to both the rewards of heaven (usually after a stop over in purgatory) and the punishment of hell but give animals a free pass into heaven?

 

[Godscre]

Ask yourself this question: would an ALL-just God subject humans to both the rewards of heaven (usually after a stop over in purgatory) and the punishment of hell but give animals a free pass into heaven?

Humans brought sin into the world which causes all of God’s creation to suffer.
God had to put the fear of man into the animals as Genesis 9:2 states.
Animals have suffered and billions continue to suffer because of our greed and ignorance. So, yes, I believe that animals which do not have any choice of following moral theology, or decision making, will be redeemed as Scripture states.
We are the ones who have the choice. Are we truly living as God’s children in His Kingdom on earth as it is in heaven where there is no suffering on God’s Holy Mountain?
Jan Fredericks, LPC, MA
Chairman, Catholic Concern for Animals-USA
Licensed Counselor

 

[Sir_Knight]

One little problem with your argument is that the Church official teaches that humans have an immortal soul. No such teaching exists for animals. If they do not have an immortal soul, it means that their souls are mortal and die with the body.

 

[Godscre]

One little problem with your argument is that the Church official teaches that humans have an immortal soul. No such teaching exists for animals. If they do not have an immortal soul, it means that their souls are mortal and die with the body.

I’ll go with what God says. Thank you.

 

[NotWorthy]

I’ll go with what God says. Thank you.

And what does God say on this matter (and where?)?

 

[Godscre]

And what does God say on this matter (and where?)?

Isa 11:5-8 describes animals and children living together and that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord.
Romans 8:22 states that creation is waiting for the children of God to set them free which I feel is a more important topic than if animals are going to heaven. We have a responsibility towards God’s creatures. A video I made is 2 min. 12 sec. “Our Biblical Stewardship of God’s Animals: We will be held accountable!” youtube.com/watch?v=Xo4vfPCM6Go

We will be held responsible: “Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.” Hebrews 4:13

Rev. 5:8-14 shows how God is praised by all creatures in heaven.

Pope John Paul II and the Bible states that animals have the same souls as humans Genes 1:20,21,30 and Genesis 2:7.

God also created all life to have a plant-based diet as Genesis 1:29 states. Only after sin entered the world do we have sickness, and violence. There is more I can write about, but I think this is enough.

Rev. 19:11 states about the white horse in heaven.

I’m looking forward to living with all of God’s creatures someday.

This is what I believe (along with many others).
Peace,
Jan

 

[NotWorthy]

Isa 11:5-8 describes animals and children living together and that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord.
Romans 8:22 states that creation is waiting for the children of God to set them free which I feel is a more important topic than if animals are going to heaven. We have a responsibility towards God’s creatures. A video I made is 2 min. 12 sec. “Our Biblical Stewardship of God’s Animals: We will be held accountable!” youtube.com/watch?v=Xo4vfPCM6Go

We will be held responsible: “Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.” Hebrews 4:13

Rev. 5:8-14 shows how God is praised by all creatures in heaven.

Pope John Paul II and the Bible states that animals have the same souls as humans Genes 1:20,21,30 and Genesis 2:7.

God also created all life to have a plant-based diet as Genesis 1:29 states. Only after sin entered the world do we have sickness, and violence. There is more I can write about, but I think this is enough.

Rev. 19:11 states about the white horse in heaven.

I’m looking forward to living with all of God’s creatures someday.

This is what I believe (along with many others).
Peace,
Jan

Methinks you are reading your own interpretations into the souls of animals. Isaiah is using symbols to discuss Messianic times, not the end of times.

And I would love a link to the John Paul II quote. St. Thomas Aquinas teaches that, yes, plants and animals have souls, but they are nothing like the souls of mankind. We see this in Genesis 2, where God breathes life (His Graces) into the man, and not to any of the plants and animals. I believe you might be reading a little more into the musing of Blessed John Paul II than he intended, but I will wait to read the passage.

 

[Godscre]

Methinks you are reading your own interpretations into the souls of animals. Isaiah is using symbols to discuss Messianic times, not the end of times.

And I would love a link to the John Paul II quote. St. Thomas Aquinas teaches that, yes, plants and animals have souls, but they are nothing like the souls of mankind. We see this in Genesis 2, where God breathes life (His Graces) into the man, and not to any of the plants and animals. I believe you might be reading a little more into the musing of Blessed John Paul II than he intended, but I will wait to read the passage.

The Hebrew is the same for soul. But this link may help clarify: all-creatures.org/ca/ark-186soul.html

 

[CHRISTINE77]

What about those 4 living creatures in Ezekiel and Revelations? The bull, the eagle, the man and the lion?

“and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind. And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle. And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.” (Revelation 4:6-8 KJV)

And here is a vision of the Kingdom come from Isaiah 11:6:

“And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the young goat, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them.”

I think there might be animals in heaven.

 

[NotWorthy]

The Hebrew is the same for soul. But this link may help clarify: all-creatures.org/ca/ark-186soul.html

And the Church teaches that animals and plants have souls… just not the same souls as humans.

 

[Godscre]

What about those 4 living creatures in Ezekiel and Revelations? The bull, the eagle, the man and the lion?

“and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind. And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle. And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.” (Revelation 4:6-8 KJV)

And here is a vision of the Kingdom come from Isaiah 11:6:

“And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the young goat, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them.”

I think there might be animals in heaven.

I think you are right!