Animals

[NotWorthy]

What about those 4 living creatures in Ezekiel and Revelations? The bull, the eagle, the man and the lion?

“and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind. And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle. And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.” (Revelation 4:6-8 KJV)

And here is a vision of the Kingdom come from Isaiah 11:6:

“And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the young goat, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them.”

I think there might be animals in heaven.

If animals have immortal souls, then what does that say about humans that kill them for food? Wouldn’t that be murder?

 

[NotWorthy]

What about those 4 living creatures in Ezekiel and Revelations? The bull, the eagle, the man and the lion?

“and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind. And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle. And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.” (Revelation 4:6-8 KJV)

And here is a vision of the Kingdom come from Isaiah 11:6:

“And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the young goat, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them.”

I think there might be animals in heaven.

Do you realize those beasts in Isaiah and Ezekiel are Seraphim? They are not animals.

And the “wolf and lamb” analogy is speaking of what happens when the Messiah comes (the first time). This is speaking of what happens on this earth and the prophet is speaking in symbols.

 

[NotWorthy]

Rev. 5:8-14 shows how God is praised by all creatures in heaven.

Daniel 3 shows that all creation praises God.

62 Sun and moon, bless the Lord; praise and exalt him above all forever. 63 Stars of heaven, bless the Lord; praise and exalt him above all forever. 64 Every shower and dew, bless the Lord; praise and exalt him above all forever. 65 All you winds, bless the Lord; praise and exalt him above all forever. 66 Fire and heat, bless the Lord; praise and exalt him above all forever. 67 [Cold and chill, bless the Lord; praise and exalt him above all forever. 68 Dew and rain, bless the Lord; praise and exalt him above all forever. 69 Frost and chill, bless the Lord; praise and exalt him above all forever. 70 Ice and snow, bless the Lord; praise and exalt him above all forever. 71 Nights and days, bless the Lord; praise and exalt him above all forever. 72 Light and darkness, bless the Lord; praise and exalt him above all forever. 73 Lightnings and clouds, bless the Lord; praise and exalt him above all forever. 74 Let the earth bless the Lord, praise and exalt him above all forever. 75 Mountains and hills, bless the Lord; praise and exalt him above all forever.

Will there be mountains and hills in heaven? Not as “background” but living in heaven?
[/quote]

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Do you realize those beasts in Isaiah and Ezekiel are Seraphim? They are not animals.

And the “wolf and lamb” analogy is speaking of what happens when the Messiah comes (the first time). This is speaking of what happens on this earth and the prophet is speaking in symbols.

I realize that they are angels, but they have animal faces, so something is a little off here.

I’m not sure you are correct about Isaiah. When did the wolf ever lie down with the lamb in history?

I don’t know about immortal souls of animals, I don’t think they really have a sense of right and wrong, they just are what God made them to be. So they probably won’t go through judgement as humans will, but God made this beautiful world full of animals and plants according to His plan, so why would he exclude them from Heaven?

As to killing an eating animals, I’m not sure, maybe we really aren’t supposed to, because in Genesis he gave Man dominion over all things, but he actually provided the plants for sustanence. However, Jesus ate fish and lamb etc. so I’ve got to believe it’s okay to eat animals. Plus the God of the Old Testament was really big on animal sacrifice.

 

[grannymh]

The Beatific Vision is not a mirror image of life on earth.

 

[choy]

animals in heaven? we don’t need them there. if being in God’s presence is not enough for you in Heaven, then there’s something wrong with you

 

[NotWorthy]

I realize that they are angels, but they have animal faces, so something is a little off here.

I’m not sure you are correct about Isaiah. When did the wolf ever lie down with the lamb in history?

Please understand that Isaiah is using symbols. The lion and the lamb are enemies. The Samaritans and the Jews are enemies. In the New Covenant Church, they are as one. I’m just positing, but this could be an example of what Isaiah meant.

I don’t know about immortal souls of animals, I don’t think they really have a sense of right and wrong, they just are what God made them to be. So they probably won’t go through judgement as humans will, but God made this beautiful world full of animals and plants according to His plan, so why would he exclude them from Heaven?

Why must this be so? But animals would need to have immortal souls in order to be in heaven eternally.

As to killing an eating animals, I’m not sure, maybe we really aren’t supposed to, because in Genesis he gave Man dominion over all things, but he actually provided the plants for sustanence. However, Jesus ate fish and lamb etc. so I’ve got to believe it’s okay to eat animals. Plus the God of the Old Testament was really big on animal sacrifice.

Same God as the God of the New Covenant!

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Please understand that Isaiah is using symbols. The lion and the lamb are enemies. The Samaritans and the Jews are enemies. In the New Covenant Church, they are as one. I’m just positing, but this could be an example of what Isaiah meant.

Why must this be so? But animals would need to have immortal souls in order to be in heaven eternally.

Same God as the God of the New Covenant!

How do we know what is symbol and what is fact in the Bible?

In any case, I don’t think animals have immortal souls, but God might place some spirit animals in Heaven, who knows? Just to add to the ambiance… no one knows what Paradise will be like.

 

[NotWorthy]

How do we know what is symbol and what is fact in the Bible?

Well, we trust in the teaching of the Church, for starters. And the Church teaches that Isaiah is speaking of the Messianic times, or to put it more clearly, when Jesus comes.

In any case, I don’t think animals have immortal souls, but God might place some spirit animals in Heaven, who knows? Just to add to the ambiance… no one knows what Paradise will be like.

I have a feeling that, when we are looking at the Beatific vision, the fact that animals are present or absent is not going to be very important. If the Beatific Vision is gazing upon perfection, there is nothing that can add to the ambiance.

 

[Rence]

I have no answer for you, but I think it’s interesting that so many accounts of near-death experiences involve seeing previously deceased pets. And, I’m not sure I want to be in a Heaven where there are no animals.

I think it would be difficult for your friend to present Biblical evidence that animals go to heaven, and I think it would be difficult for you to present Biblical evidence that they do not. Just my two cents.

I agree with your two cents. Let me add to it: it doesn’t make sense to me that God would create, only to have that creation just cease to exist. Therefore I think ALL of God’s creation will be ressurected in the end. There is no proof in the Bible to support either side of the ‘debate’. But I agree with Hereswith, there have been too many accounts of near-death experiences that describe seeing deceased pets for it to be discounted, at least for me.

 

[grannymh]

I agree with your two cents. Let me add to it: it doesn’t make sense to me that God would create, only to have that creation just cease to exist. Therefore I think ALL of God’s creation will be ressurected in the end. There is no proof in the Bible to support either side of the ‘debate’. But I agree with Hereswith, there have been too many accounts of near-death experiences that describe seeing deceased pets for it to be discounted, at least for me.

Note: tiny clarification. Near-death is a tad different than permanent after-death.

There is an intriguing line in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 358. “God created everything for man, but man in turn was created to serve and love God and to offer all creation back to Him:”

While some see this in the light of our stewardship, there could be an additional view. Except for human nature, creation is material/physical – not spiritual. Once all humanity had reached their chosen eternity, with or without God, there would be no need for the material/physical elements to remain in existence.

Blessings,
granny

The human person is worthy of profound respect from the moment of conception.

Link to Catechism of the Catholic Church – www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

 

[Sir_Knight]

I don’t think animals have immortal souls, but God might place some spirit animals in Heaven, who knows?

This MAY be true. There may indeed be animals in heaven but they will NOT be the souls of animals that lived on earth because their mortal souls died with their mortal bodies.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I have been a having a “debate” with a Bible Christian and would like to know if there is a Bible quote to answer them. I was taught that animals when they die do not go to Heaven that they cannot merit it only people can. This person disagreed with me. Many priests have told me this thru the years but that doesn’t count in this case, there needs to be a Biblical quote to back up this claim. Can anyone help me here? Thanks in advance

I think all living creatures have souls. I’ve got a rather weird belief that God intends to drive us off the planet as part of his plan for the human race, and that the method we’ll use will be quantum teleportation, which always destroys the original, so it cannot be cloned.

I also think that we’ll find that all of our early attempts end up with dead living things, of whatever sort, as we will not be able to quantise the soul. If God does intend to do this, then it’s clear He’s built the universe so we can, and also that He will have so planned our intelligence that we will be eventually be able to find a way around it. I don’t think He’s let us get to the age of early space exploration for no reason, and at the same time let us arm ourselves to the gills with nuclear weapons, develop an unstable super industrial age by giving the Moslems most of the oil, and retained enough clowns in highly suspect flashpoints - Pakistan / India, North and South Korea, and Iran / Israel, with hints of climate change to boot, to provide the possible impetus to move off a wrecked planet into a very large universe, with transport speeds to match.

So I think all living things have souls. However I’m biased when it comes to pets, as compared to other animals. We had our 15 year old Silky Terrier put down about four weeks ago, and it hurt. I like to think he’s still around, and chasing cats in doggy heaven. From time to time I seem to get this little feeling of joy, somehow featuring him, but that may be wishful thinking, influenced by past experiences of spiritual experiences.

At the same time we had fish tonight for tea, and I didn’t even consider the eternal fate of the particular finny creature which provided the meal. Last night it involved a bit of meat of some sort, and again I didn’t give the poor old bovine a thought. Had I been actively involved in slitting it’s throat I might have been a bit more considerate, but I’m afraid it came wrapped in plastic.

I like to think animals have souls, and that pets get to heaven. I couldn’t care less what happens to mosquitoes though. Bu then maybe they go hell, where it’s warm, there’s plenty of victims, and the climate is bracing.

I’ll have to wait I suppose. I’ll find out one day.

 

[NotWorthy]

I’m sorry. I just realized that this little conundrum has already been debated.

Read the following series of signs and determine for yourself.

I hope you enjoy!

 

[Hereswith]

Isa 11:5-8 describes animals and children living together and that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord.
Romans 8:22 states that creation is waiting for the children of God to set them free which I feel is a more important topic than if animals are going to heaven. We have a responsibility towards God’s creatures. A video I made is 2 min. 12 sec. “Our Biblical Stewardship of God’s Animals: We will be held accountable!” youtube.com/watch?v=Xo4vfPCM6Go

We will be held responsible: “Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.” Hebrews 4:13

Rev. 5:8-14 shows how God is praised by all creatures in heaven.

Pope John Paul II and the Bible states that animals have the same souls as humans Genes 1:20,21,30 and Genesis 2:7.

God also created all life to have a plant-based diet as Genesis 1:29 states. Only after sin entered the world do we have sickness, and violence. There is more I can write about, but I think this is enough.

Rev. 19:11 states about the white horse in heaven.

I’m looking forward to living with all of God’s creatures someday.

This is what I believe (along with many others).
Peace,
Jan

Wow. Thanks for that!

 

[Hereswith]

I have a story. I had a greyhound who had this beautiful gentle presence, and a perpetual wise expression on his face. (Well, a lot of greys do, but he was special.) I started taking him to nursing homes and hospitals. Many times, an elderly person who had been unresponsive for months, would light up and respond to him. He seemed to know who needed him. I have seen him walk right up to someone in extreme pain (either emotional or physical) and lay his head on a person. (As a vet nurse, I’ve worked with a lot of dogs, and even therapy dogs are generally shy around people in extreme pain or strangers who are extremely emotional.) I find that I am at a loss for words to describe how. . .unusual this dog’s presence was in the company of misery. You just couldn’t shake him.

I was in awe of him, and he was always sweet to me, but I felt that he always held me at arm’s length a bit. It was as if he wasn’t here on earth to be my friend, but to do more. I couldn’t quite bond with him - as if I was somehow unworthy. I referred to myself as “Malcolm’s chauffeur”, and that is pretty much what I was. Last summer he was suddenly ill, and within days was diagnosed with liver cancer - at the young age of 7. He lived for 5 weeks of chemo. During that time, dozens of people came to my home to sit with him for hours, just to be in his presence or to “say good-bye”. Many of these people had greyhounds of their own, but spoke of Malcolm as being “like an angel”. A lot of people told me for the first time how they had adored him at first sight. They used words like “wise”, “old soul,” “angel” when talking about him.

When he died, the vet who put him down openly cried - even though he was an internal medicine specialist vet and worked with terminal illness daily. His techs told me that he never cried in front of clients, but he sobbed that day. He had only known Malcolm in the 5 weeks during which he had treated him.

After Malcolm died, I received over 200 cards and emails, many from people I had no memory of meeting, but who were telling me how they were grieving to hear of his death.

Now, I have owned a lot of pets, and I have worked with a lot of amazing therapy animals. But I have to tell you - there was something supernatural about Malcolm. I really in my heart of hearts think he was something from God - some kind of messager or angel. I’ll always believe that.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I’m sorry. I just realized that this little conundrum has already been debated.

Read the following series of signs and determine for yourself.

I hope you enjoy!

Thanks for the link. Quite amusing.

I’ve seen this signs debate before on the net. Do you know if the two churches are real, or is it a clever piece of special effects work? Just intrigued.

 

[NotWorthy]

Thanks for the link. Quite amusing.

I’ve seen this signs debate before on the net. Do you know if the two churches are real, or is it a clever piece of special effects work? Just intrigued.

I was intrigued, as well. Luckily, there is a web-site for those intrigued people. Snopes says that it is false.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I was intrigued, as well. Luckily, there is a web-site for those intrigued people. Snopes says that it is false.

Thanks for the feedback. I had a look at the Church Signs Generator.

Whoever dreams them up is creative, but at the same time it’s a bit disappointing that there aren’t two real churches in engaging in this sort of blarney.

 

[callmecharles]

I don’t know if animals make it into the pearly gates, but I think God is more concerned with their well being than most people think.
Job 38:
39“Do you hunt the prey for the lioness and satisfy the hunger of the lions
40when they crouch in their dens or lie in wait in a thicket?
41Who provides food for the raven when its young cry out to God and wander about for lack of food?

Chapters 38 and 39 of Job show how God pays very close attention to the animal kingdom. I find it intriguing really.