Anime Thread #2

[Lost_Wanderer]

The fact that there’d be a Vatican-sanctioned organization named after Iscariot is itself preposterous.

It’s obviously for the sake of highlighting the dark nature of the organization’s work. I don’t even think it should be much of a surprise that they’re all bonkers. Given the things one witnesses in the work of exterminating vampires, it’d be more shocking if one DIDN’T go mad.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

.

I agree that you don’t need to actually show the Catholic Church for a work of fiction to be sufficiently “Catholic.” But, the 2003 anime specifically talks about Christianity as being a “dead and ridiculous religion” that persecuted polytheists. Col. Roy Mustang says out loud “there is no such thing as God” when fighting Führer-King Bradley. .

Of course they do. (So does Ed.)

But then they CHANGE. They reconcile. And when Ed discovers the shocking secret of WHY alchemy doesn’t work in the ‘other’ world—everything comes into focus.

You’ll just have to wait for my article for the bullet-point discussion.

 

[CesarAugustus]

It’s obviously for the sake of highlighting the dark nature of the organization’s work. I don’t even think it should be much of a surprise that they’re all bonkers. Given the things one witnesses in the work of exterminating vampires, it’d be more shocking if one DIDN’T go mad.

Hmmm, that is a bit semi-pelagian, I think.

A better name for a organization like that would be something like the Lance of Michael or Division Judas Maccabee.

The name Iscariot for a religious militant organization, sounds like sommething of quasi-Gnostic (Cainite) style.

Blessings!

 

[EphelDuath]

It’s obviously for the sake of highlighting the dark nature of the organization’s work. I don’t even think it should be much of a surprise that they’re all bonkers. Given the things one witnesses in the work of exterminating vampires, it’d be more shocking if one DIDN’T go mad.

Well, a group of Catholics that are bonkers is one thing, but a group of Catholics portrayed in one of the most negative ways imaginable, with no other Catholics in the franchise to counter-balance their insanity, and then them being sanctioned by the Magisterium, is quite another.

Of course they do. (So does Ed.)

But then they CHANGE. They reconcile.

No they don’t. These events happen in the last two or three episodes of the 2003 anime.

And when Ed discovers the shocking secret of WHY alchemy doesn’t work in the ‘other’ world—everything comes into focus.

So, the main characters (whom the audience should root for) openly scorning God and Christianity is okay because… alchemy actually kills people from our Earth? Explain please.

 

[CesarAugustus]

Well, a group of Catholics that are bonkers is one thing, but a group of Catholics portrayed in one of the most negative ways imaginable, with no other Catholics in the franchise to counter-balance their insanity, and then them being sanctioned by the Magisterium, is quite another.

Yes, I agree, I eventually began to see that as really offensive sometime ago.

The things I really enjoy from the series, are some of the music and the Crusaders concept and design.

Blessings!!!

 

[patrick457]

All I can say is that the Fist of the North Star series was/is awesome, and the entire thing needs to be dubbed (I think only 30 or so episodes got the English treatment).

It is not to be confused with the hilariously bad live action film. Although the film is worth watching to laugh and cry at the same time.

Film? What film?

Hey, did you know that there was a live-action Korean ‘adaptation’ of FotNS featuring a BEARDED Kenshiro? :bigyikes: And yes, that utterly ridiculous Taiwanese (?) movie…

 

[patrick457]

Ephel, I know about another series that mentions Catholicism.

20th Century Boys.

The portrayal of the Church and the Faith, is better (although not perfect) than other animes/mangas I’ve seen.

Anyone here has read that manga or watched the movies?

Blessings!!!

Oh, I did. I own all 24 volumes right now, in fact.

For the record, Friend is very much a sort of Antichrist figure, is he not? At least, that’s the impression that I had upon reading the manga/watching the films. I mean, like many Antichrists in popular media, he manages to (literally) rule over the world and mislead many people.

But the concept is rather interesting: how childhood grudges could eventually lead to the deaths of millions of people all over the world.

 

[patrick457]

Film? What film?

Hey, did you know that there was a live-action Korean ‘adaptation’ of FotNS featuring a BEARDED Kenshiro? :bigyikes: And yes, that utterly ridiculous Taiwanese (?) movie…

You just have to see it:

Korea = www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBb-NSeg160
Taiwan = www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9CxJrjDOxM

 

[CesarAugustus]

Oh, I did. I own all 24 volumes right now, in fact.

For the record, Friend is very much a sort of Antichrist figure, is he not? At least, that’s the impression that I had upon reading the manga/watching the films. I mean, like many Antichrists in popular media, he manages to (literally) rule over the world and mislead many people.

But the concept is rather interesting: how childhood grudges could eventually lead to the deaths of millions of people all over the world.

Well, he is not protrayed as the antichrist. I think he is more like a sort of mini antichrist. A prelude, or something.

Blessings!



P.S. Nice, more people that knows about 20th Century Boys here!

 

[patrick457]

Well, he is not protrayed as the antichrist. I think he is more like a sort of mini antichrist. A prelude, or something.

Blessings!



P.S. Nice, more people that knows about 20th Century Boys here!

I guess I should have said ‘reminiscent’ of the Antichrist.

BTW, I still can’t get myself over the way Manjome dies in the film, especially after reading the final volumes.

 

[CesarAugustus]

I guess I should have said ‘reminiscent’ of the Antichrist.

BTW, I still can’t get myself over the way Manjome dies in the film, especially after reading the final volumes.

He replaced that unnamed Friend follower, too.

Also, in the films we don’t see the history of Fr. Nitani conversion and his friendship with the Pope. And no Fr. Luciano either.

Well, but I liked the concert scene! so emotive!

One of my favorite songs.

Blessings!

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Well, a group of Catholics that are bonkers is one thing, but a group of Catholics portrayed in one of the most negative ways imaginable, with no other Catholics in the franchise to counter-balance their insanity, and then them being sanctioned by the Magisterium, is quite another.

Again, I don’t disagree with you as far the lack of a counter-balance goes but I really just have to point out once more that the Iscariots are only one of the thirteen Magisterium-sanctioned groups in the Vatican. I would think that this would be even good grounds to presume a counterbalance somewhere among them.

 

[EphelDuath]

Again, I don’t disagree with you as far the lack of a counter-balance goes but I really just have to point out once more that the Iscariots are only one of the thirteen Magisterium-sanctioned groups in the Vatican. I would think that this would be even good grounds to presume a counterbalance somewhere among them.

But they’re not shown. It’s like saying there might be redeemable qualities in Jack Chick’s portrayal of Catholicism because he’s not showing the Catholics that aren’t profaning greedy idolators out-of-panel.

Also, going from memory, I think Fr. Anderson got the nail from the True Cross from the Matthew branch, so we’re supposed to believe that the Catholic Church is expending its most holy of ancient relics in order to fight vampires. Yeah…

My friend and I started watching Trinity: Blood to analyze how it portrays Catholicism. It’s all over the place. The Catholics are (at least thus far) the protagonists, and none of them are shown to be irreverent of the faith. The main character is Fr. Abel, and he reassures the one-shot characters of each episode that God loves them and wants them to be happy. He himself is shown, however, to be an ancient vampire that fights other vampires for the sake of the Catholic Church and humanity. In addition to there being female bishops and cardinals, there’s also android priests (they’re called “Father” but not shown celebrating Mass or receiving Holy Orders; they’re apparently warrior-detectives that just dress like priests). One of the characters introduced a little bit into the series is an extremely muscular priest with long blonde hair that prays while working out in front of the altar in his parish.

So… not a negative portrayal of Catholicism like in Hellsing, I would say, just one that’s clearly from the perspective of somebody who doesn’t care about the finer details. I think it’s moreso meant to just be “neo-Renaissance against vampires” rather than “Catholicism against vampires”, since most of the characters have typical Renaissance names like “Cardinal Medici”, “Cardinal Sforza” and “Pope Allesandro.”

 

[patrick457]

He replaced that unnamed Friend follower, too.

But in the film’s defense, the manga DOES have a lot of characters spread over the globe…

Also, in the films we don’t see the history of Fr. Nitani conversion and his friendship with the Pope. And no Fr. Luciano either.

In fact, the film doesn’t pay much attention to the Pope, doesn’t it? He’s just another background character who serves as an example of how Friend has pretty much deceived most people in the world. But hey, Fr. Nitani is still cool.

Well, but I liked the concert scene! so emotive!

One of my favorite songs.

Blessings!

GUTALALA SUDALALA!

Oh yeah. Need I mention one gripe I have with the manga: ‘God’ (NOT the almighty Father who created Heaven and Earth) is pretty much a pivotal character early on with his powers of precognition, but once he goes…berserk about the revival of bowling he’s become IMHO pretty much useless to the main plot. Though I kinda found his claim of being not able to die unless bowling makes a comeback amusing: at least it helps him survive to the end of the series (seriously, it all ends with him ).

Oh yeah, Friend went from being the leader of a minor cult to hero to God incarnate to world president, just because of a childhood grudge. If that’s not epic, I don’t know what is.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Well, a group of Catholics that are bonkers is one thing, but a group of Catholics portrayed in one of the most negative ways imaginable, with no other Catholics in the franchise to counter-balance their insanity, and then them being sanctioned by the Magisterium, is quite another.

No they don’t. These events happen in the last two or three episodes of the 2003 anime.

So, the main characters (whom the audience should root for) openly scorning God and Christianity is okay because… alchemy actually kills people from our Earth? Explain please.

It’s clear we are never going to agree on this.

Take care.

So long.

 

[EphelDuath]

So, I don’t immediately agree with you after two posts, and that means you’ll never convince me? Kay.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

But they’re not shown. It’s like saying there might be redeemable qualities in Jack Chick’s portrayal of Catholicism because he’s not showing the Catholics that aren’t profaning greedy idolators out-of-panel.

I’m not sure that’s a fair comparison. For one, Hellsing at least has many indicators of such a possibility. You won’t find that in a Chick Tract.

Also, going from memory, I think Fr. Anderson got the nail from the True Cross from the Matthew branch, so we’re supposed to believe that the Catholic Church is expending its most holy of ancient relics in order to fight vampires. Yeah…

I would think that judging from that scene I saw in one of the OVAs where Alucard was at his strongest yet… yeah, there’s a good chance of a good case to use such a relic.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

So, I don’t immediately agree with you after two posts, and that means you’ll never convince me? Kay.

I mean I’m adding nothing to the conversation, so there is no point in continuing.

I am not on the same page as anyone and unable to make myself understood. I am leaving the thread, probably the forum, possibly the Church.

Good bye and good luck.

 

[EphelDuath]

I am not on the same page as anyone and unable to make myself understood. I am leaving the thread, probably the forum, possibly the Church.

Good bye and good luck.

You might be leaving the Catholic Church because we’re having a disagreement about a certain anime? Why?

 

[nickybr38]

I mean I’m adding nothing to the conversation, so there is no point in continuing.

I am not on the same page as anyone and unable to make myself understood. I am leaving the thread, probably the forum, possibly the Church.

Good bye and good luck.

I understand leaving the thread because you have a difficult time being understood.
I understand leaving the forum because you have a difficult time being understood.
I don’t understand leaving the Church because you have a difficult time being understood.

I would suggest stepping back from the computer, opening the Cathechism of the Catholic Church and immersing yourself in the faith without anyone else around to confuse or frustrate you. If you have questions, take it to a Catholic friend you trust and/or your priest (NOT the internet). When you feel you are confident in your faith then perhaps you can try coming onto forums again but forums have a way of making people feel horrible and miserable, especially when they’re already having a hard time.

Anyway, just my two cents.

Back on topic; I just finished watching an anime called Samurai 7. Now that was a fun show.