Anime Thread #2

[Tenofovir]

You have a point there. The characters are supposed to be teenagers, but they don’t really look like it for the most part. But then again, this is a magical girl show done by Studio Shaft, so maybe this shouldn’t come as a huge shock. It deconstructs a lot of the conceits behind magical girl shows, but I can understand why the whole “be careful what you wish for” thing might not be enough to temper the moe stuff.

Some Japanese studios and writers love gore and children. Check out the manga called Kurogane Princess. Or the anime “Another” and 11eyes. Not to mention the Battle Royale film, When They Cry and Freezing. I think this is exploitation type of work. Another has just had an adaptation into a live action show.

What sort of conceits does this deconstruct though? Magical Girl shows are kids’ shows. Magical powers for good. With responsibility. Sacrifice. But not usually outright death or being forced to fight each other to the death. These are kids shows so incredibly naive, but a deconstruction of that in a serious way?

For me this is just… so wrong and even pointless. It seems to be gratuitous reason to get audience to feel sorry for their heroines and to see them slaughter each other, or get slaughtered.

Should we deconstruct Anne of Green Gables next? Or The Hardy Boys? or Peter Pan?

 

[MatsudaBerry]

Some Japanese studios and writers love gore and children. Check out the manga called Kurogane Princess. Or the anime “Another” and 11eyes. Not to mention the Battle Royale film, When They Cry and Freezing. I think this is exploitation type of work. Another has just had an adaptation into a live action show.

What sort of conceits does this deconstruct though? Magical Girl shows are kids’ shows. Magical powers for good. With responsibility. Sacrifice. But not usually outright death or being forced to fight each other to the death. These are kids shows so incredibly naive, but a deconstruction of that in a serious way?

For me this is just… so wrong and even pointless. It seems to be gratuitous reason to get audience to feel sorry for their heroines and to see them slaughter each other, or get slaughtered.

Should we deconstruct Anne of Green Gables next? Or The Hardy Boys? or Peter Pan?

I actually liked 11eyes on the whole, but that may be something to discuss in another post.

It deconstructs the idea of the cute and lovable mascot, the transformation trinket, and the sacrifices involved in becoming a magical girl. I guess we just disagree about whether trying to get the audience to pity your audiences is always bad, if I’m not misunderstanding your argument.

I would argue that deconstruction can be good or bad. This is further complicated by the fact that a lot of people think that all you have to do to make a deconstruction is to make the story dark. Deconstructing something almost inevitably leads to darkening, but that’s not really the point.

 

[Kamaduck]

Yes but why little kids? It’s not a realistic burden and I don’t think a realistic scenario. It’s unnecessary and I think exploits this innocence aspect. But you got a positive vibe from it, so good for you and you also prove my point that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

You watch anime for realism?

Anyway, I think I will be checking out Madoka Magica. From what I’ve heard it sounds like just my cup of tea. I’ll just have to see what I think of it, I guess.

I do think deconstructions are fun, but you know what would be even more fun? A reconstruction. A story that acknowledges the flaws in its genre (or in itself), and actually fixes them in suitable ways. A story that is stronger because it examines the places it breaks and repairs those weaknesses.

I don’t see those very often, though. Princess Tutu might qualify (possible reconstruction of classic fairytales), but that’s all I can think of.

 

[MatsudaBerry]

I also prefer reconstructions, and I think that Puella Magi Madoka Magica at least partially reconstructs the magical girl genre, for all that’s been made of its dark and subversive qualities. That reconstruction comes at a significant loss, though I won’t spoil what that loss is, and things still aren’t sunshine and roses, but the situation eventually becomes more like a typical magical girl show. And when you consider the guy who wrote this story considers happy endings not only unrealistic but against the very laws of nature, that’s something amazing in my book.

 

[Kamaduck]

I also prefer reconstructions, and I think that Puella Magi Madoka Magica at least partially reconstructs the magical girl genre, for all that’s been made of its dark and subversive qualities. That reconstruction comes at a significant loss, though I won’t spoil what that loss is, and things still aren’t sunshine and roses, but the situation eventually becomes more like a typical magical girl show. And when you consider the guy who wrote this story considers happy endings not only unrealistic but against the very laws of nature, that’s something amazing in my book.

Sounds like a good enough reason to watch it, as far as I’m concerned.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I do think deconstructions are fun, but you know what would be even more fun? A reconstruction. A story that acknowledges the flaws in its genre (or in itself), and actually fixes them in suitable ways. A story that is stronger because it examines the places it breaks and repairs those weaknesses.

I would think that the whole concept of deconstructing is just a tool. Besides, plenty of things that claim to be deconstructions of something tend to end up being subject to deconstruction themselves. I’ve personally observed this in an increasingly growing counter-culture to the cynicism that deconstructionism normally brings (at least, to me). Basically, if you don’t like something, you have the means to deconstruct it. It’s like an on-going debate among others using elaborate stories.

You can say I’m even experimenting with that all (though the details on what that is shall be secret for now).

See I watch a lot of things that are probably just begging for a deconstruction (e.g. Tamako Market, Dog Days, Fairy Tail, this really cute manga I just found called Love so Life) But guess what? I wouldn’t be happy if someone did.

Constantly pointing out flaws or thinking that something is ‘unrealistically happy’ is, no matter how right, not exactly good on the psychological side. If you enjoy those kind of things, then by all means. But for me, I’ve never liked it because it just reminded me with what I had to actually deal with every day.

Well anyways, just thought I’d chime in on that because deconstruction is something I’ve never come to take a liking to. It feels different when I apply to myself though (and on certain things that I shamelessly disagree with).

 

[Kamaduck]

See I watch a lot of things that are probably just begging for a deconstruction (e.g. Tamako Market, Dog Days, Fairy Tail, this really cute manga I just found called Love so Life) But guess what? I wouldn’t be happy if someone did.

Constantly pointing out flaws or thinking that something is ‘unrealistically happy’ is, no matter how right, not exactly good on the psychological side. If you enjoy those kind of things, then by all means. But for me, I’ve never liked it because it just reminded me with what I had to actually deal with every day.

Well, I think that’s where reconstructions come in. You take a story with a message that is actually really depressing when examined, expose it, and fix it so that it really is happy now.

For example, say you have a classic fairy tale about a princess who is destined to be rescued from her tower, which is guarded by a fierce dragon, by a brave and virtuous knight, because she is the fairest of them all.

Then you examine and expose the implications (deconstruct it). Doesn’t the princess get lonely up there for years and years in her tower? How will she adjust to life? What if she doesn’t want to marry the first person who resuces her? What if he’s actually a terrible person, he’s just the only one able to slay dragons? How does the dragon fit into all of this?What about girls who aren’t the fairest if them all, or are even ugly?

Then you take those ideas and write a story where those are no longer problems (reconstruct it). I don’t actually know how to fix the inherent disturbingness of the “girl in the tower” story, but I’m sure it can be done! Maybe the princess leaves her tower of her own free will, or maybe she becomes the queen of her tower when nobody comes to save her. Maybe the knight wins his bride through methods more directly related to ruling a kingdom and being a good husband. Maybe the dragons have been enslaved and the hero has to free them. Maybe you forgo writing about a princess at all and write about a peasant girl.

The point is to write a story that is more useful and healthy for modern viewers than previous versions were. To do that, we need to uncover the flaws in previous versions. If a deconstruction treats that as its goal, then I’m all for it!

 

[MatsudaBerry]

If this forum doesn’t mind me pimping Star Driver, I think that it probably counts as a reconstruction of some kind. In a post-Evangelion world, the very decision to create a sincere but not serious mecha anime where the message can be summed up as “Love, whether romantic or friendly, is more important than anything else this world can offer you” is going to come off as an ideological statement that amounts to a reconstruction. It’s just less metafictional than Princess Tutu.

 

[Kamaduck]

If this forum doesn’t mind me pimping Star Driver, I think that it probably counts as a reconstruction of some kind. In a post-Evangelion world, the very decision to create a sincere but not serious mecha anime where the message can be summed up as “Love, whether romantic or friendly, is more important than anything else this world can offer you” is going to come off as an ideological statement that amounts to a reconstruction. It’s just less metafictional than Princess Tutu.

Hmm, I suppose it might qualify based on that. (It’s on the list of Stuff I Need To Watch.)

I don’t know what the difference between a reconstructed story and a story that has yet to be deconstructed is, though. I suppose to determine if it is techincally a reconstruction, you would have to look at the flaws of the old mecha anime that Eva deconstructed and see if Star Driver is free of many of those flaws.

But who has time for that when we can watch mecha battles, amirite?

Back on Eva, though. I think a lot of the deconstruction was actually aimed at anime tropes in general, not just mecha anime. For instance, it deconstructed the idea of both the Tsundere and the Yamato Nadeshiko to an extent (at least, I think that’s what Rei is a deconstruction of). It also deconstructed Shonen heroes who have nothing but determination on their side, the idea that love conquers all, and the unspoken assertion that using children to pilot weapons of mass destruction is a good idea. Only the last one is directly related to mecha.

 

[MatsudaBerry]

You have a point there. Star Driver might not actually be a reconstruction after all. It’s so campy, but it has so much heart that it works. However, I will grant you that I already tend to enjoy campy stuff like Doctor Who and Ouran, so who am I to sound like I’m complaining? This is all I can think to write now. I’ll probably comment further tomorrow.

 

[Kamaduck]

You have a point there. Star Driver might not actually be a reconstruction after all. It’s so campy, but it has so much heart that it works. However, I will grant you that I already tend to enjoy campy stuff like Doctor Who and Ouran, so who am I to sound like I’m complaining? This is all I can think to write now. I’ll probably comment further tomorrow.

To be fair, Ouran is aware of its own ridiculousness, and it’s a parody for most of the series. I like to think the message was “Shojo is absurd- but gosh-darn it, it’s so much fun that we love it anyway! ”

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

To be fair, Ouran is aware of its own ridiculousness, and it’s a parody for most of the series. I like to think the message was “Shojo is absurd- but gosh-darn it, it’s so much fun that we love it anyway! ”

LOL and amen! XD I noticed that the only kind of deconstruction I like involves mocking silly things like those harem scenarios with heavy doses of humor.

 

[MatsudaBerry]

I’ve recently watched Eden of the East and Dance in the Vampire Bund. Funnily enough, both shows have a male protagonist named Akira. I enjoyed both series, though I think I preferred Eden of the East. It was alternately funny and exciting. I only wish there were more episodes. Not every show can handle being that short, and the story warranted a proper conclusion.

Dance in the Vampire Bund reminds me a little bit of Gosick, which I saw either last year or the year before that. Both stories center on a romance involving apparently star-crossed lovers, and the pint-sized tsundere female leads of both are voiced by the same person. It took me a while to figure that out, but once I looked it up, I remembered why Mina’s arrogant pouting seemed familiar.

Also, is there any objectionable content in Penguindrum? I saw the first episode and have become interested in seeing the rest, but I want to avoid paying through the nose for something that may be too blasphemous or otherwise obscene to be worth watching.

 

[Kamaduck]

I started watching Spice and Wolf this weekend. It’s hard to say exactly what I like about it, but it seems to be quite a good break after the confusing action of Steins;Gate. I gave up on Lain.

If I say it’s the atmosphere I like, will you guys get what I’m saying? It’s quiet and thoughtful and focuses on characters and silver purity, but it isn’t boring at all (to me, anyway). I like Holo and Lawrence, and I like how pretty everything looks. The opening is very nice, too.

Definitely going to finish it as soon as I have time.

 

[ironchapman]

I’ve recently watched Eden of the East and Dance in the Vampire Bund. Funnily enough, both shows have a male protagonist named Akira. I enjoyed both series, though I think I preferred Eden of the East. It was alternately funny and exciting. I only wish there were more episodes. Not every show can handle being that short, and the story warranted a proper conclusion.

Dance in the Vampire Bund reminds me a little bit of Gosick, which I saw either last year or the year before that. Both stories center on a romance involving apparently star-crossed lovers, and the pint-sized tsundere female leads of both are voiced by the same person. It took me a while to figure that out, but once I looked it up, I remembered why Mina’s arrogant pouting seemed familiar.

Also, is there any objectionable content in Penguindrum? I saw the first episode and have become interested in seeing the rest, but I want to avoid paying through the nose for something that may be too blasphemous or otherwise obscene to be worth watching.

There’s no blasphemous content Penguindrum, and it lacks anything truly obscene, even if it is creepy at times. Nothing really bad or unwatchable, just be ready to think “Well, that was weird.”

 

[Kamaduck]

Does anybody have a really nice, sweet, super-non-objectionable, preferably uplifting, anime that I can watch?

In particular, it can’t have anything sexual or overly suggestive in it. Not because I generally can’t handle that (within reason, I’m normally OK), but because I just watched the first five minutes of End of Evangelion. I now feel the need to rinse my brain out.

 

[Oren]

fruits basket? I don’t really watch anime like that heh.

 

[suko]

Hey guys, has anyone followed any of the Winter season shows? If so, what have been your favorites? I only watched 4 shows and in terms of enjoyment, I guess I would rate them in this order:

Chihayafuru 2
Amnesia (I know a lot of people disliked this show, but I’ll admit I was drawn into the mystery aspect )
**Kotoura-san
Maoyu **

Also, what shows from the Spring season have your attention? I still need to take a look myself at what’s airing this Spring (I know some already started airing, lol), but I’d be curious to hear any that may have your attention.

Does anybody have a really nice, sweet, super-non-objectionable, preferably uplifting, anime that I can watch?

In particular, it can’t have anything sexual or overly suggestive in it. Not because I generally can’t handle that (within reason, I’m normally OK), but because I just watched the first five minutes of End of Evangelion. I now feel the need to rinse my brain out.

If u are serious, well, I think Chihayafuru is quite a cheery, loveable & feel-good series. The music, imo, is just outstanding and uplifting too! The 2nd season is still going with a new ep airing every Friday. This has easily been my favorite series (or continuation of a series) from the winter. ^___^

 

[Kamaduck]

If u are serious, well, I think Chihayafuru is quite a cheery, loveable & feel-good series. The music, imo, is just outstanding and uplifting too! The 2nd season is still going with a new ep airing every Friday. This has easily been my favorite series (or continuation of a series) from the winter. ^___^

I am totally serious. My brain thanks you in advance.

 

[Kamaduck]

I am totally serious. My brain thanks you in advance.

Reiterating the thank-you, this is totally what I need right now. Perfect.

As a side note, though, it’s weird watching this show and not knowing Japanese, considering that the whole plot revolves around a game that’s essentially made up of Japanese poems.

Makes me want to take up Japanese again…