Annoyed by a sexist ad

[Baelor]

Oh boy…where do I even begin…

Clearly not from a position of reason.

I’ll sum it up succinctly any Liberal Arts major lacking in anything Mathematical, Scientific, Technological, or Engineering wise is a worthless degree.

Worthless in what sense? Pretty much every significant politician ever was classically-trained. Lincoln came to power in a period of renewed interest in Hellenism and was greatly influenced by the scholars of the humanities in his time period. Most of art comes from those who at least have some training in the liberal arts. All clergymen do.

Yes, and that’s because the nation is littered with them from people who majored in fluff

In fluff? Do you know six languages? Every single serious student of the Classics must – Latin, Greek, French, German, English, and Italian. Is philosophy “fluff?” Is theology?

Except that’s the problem women are not getting “paid less” than men. It is a complete myth. If you judge “pay” based on Income levels, of course men will make more.

No one is judging income levels in that way, so your argument is a total strawman (if you even know what that means, then you have benefited from the liberal arts. If you do not, then I pity you). It is factual that women get paid less than men for doing the same job.

Talk about someone who could benefit from a liberal arts education!

 

[Kelfa28]

My opinion on ANY kind of degree…

If you cannot make the money to pay off the student loans that come with it…then it’s not worth pursuing.

Unfortunately…all degrees are expensive. Most people have to take out the equivalent of one year’s salary in a nominal, entry level job.

How far behind the game are you when you walk into that nominal job with 4 years salary in debt (plus the interest piling up)…and that is WITHOUT the other bills like rent, gas, food, electricity and heat. I don’t see how it’s possible for any college grad to pay back those loans for a degree they can’t purposely use?

That is the result of going to a regular state school. Never mind the amount it takes to attend a private school or an elite ivy league school.

Sure scholarships are available. But not for everyone and not enough to pay off the entire bill for one year. I did very well in school and applied for about 25 scholarships. This resulted in my earning a couple grand total. That was eaten up very quickly by books (which are also SO expensive) and general living expenses the first year. I had a grant that paid for a very small percentage of tuition…but the vast majority (probably 80% of it) was paid in loans.

I went to school for a BFA and realized quickly it was a total and complete waste of my time and money. What was worse…I couldn’t transfer any of the credits I earned to another school because they were all considered humanitarian credits besides the one english class I took. It was a complete waste of money and I was stuck with the bill.

I saved about $700 when I came home and get my EMT certification and started working full time and paid off the loan. I could have used that money for savings and investments and would have been in the positive if I hadn’t gone to school.

Most college grads move back home with mom and dad and many, many of them default on their loans.

I don’t judge people who get so-called “fluff” degrees. If you can afford it or can get a free-ride somewhere. If you have to take out a loan…I would think LONG and HARD before I considered a degree that limits your employment opportunities. Loans are a massive and unsafe gamble of your finances and credit rating. You could be destroying your chances of buying a house or a car or anything else…instead of improving them.

My husband has no degree and no desire to ever get one. He still bought a house and was earning about 60k a year working in the military. I was earning 40k before I became a mother and quit to go back to school (which the military is paying for…in full).

No one thinks about trade work anymore. We will always need electricians, plumbers, auto-workers, carpenters and other do-it-yourself career paths. Many kids can go to a vocational school for their high school years and be earning good money by the time they graduate. They will be licensed and have the advantage of being hired by the people they did apprentice work with or through word of mouth with their instructors.
That was how I was hired as an EMT right away. My instructor got me in tough with his SIL who worked as management for an ambulance company. I was hired immediately.

The vast majority of students aren’t built for a college degree. Period. My husband is one of them. The work is too much. Why force them to do something that they aren’t built for. Why not give them the chance to do a trade instead?

I regret going to college when I did. I know plenty of people who have degrees and are drowning in debt and can’t find a job for their theatre degree or their philosophy degree and are working at Target. Not that working at Target is bad but I can’t imagine they had it mind upon graduation.

Some companies don’t want to hire college grads because they know these grads want better pay and will demand better pay. It’s easier to hire the person who doesn’t have a degree because they can pay them less for the same kind of work.

 

[TimeEntrance]

UnumCorpus, you might be interested in this short video. One of the men in the video claims classical music is having a re-birth in Brazil while it is dieing in Europe and the United States.

Video: journeyman.tv/64137/short-films/orchestra-of-dreams.html

As all eyes turn to Brazil and Rio 2016, it’s a time of optimism for a country blighted by poverty. Its biggest favela is now playing host to a unique musical institute that is bringing hope to thousands.

“Music’s transformed my life”, says Denise. A keen violinist and member of the Sinfonica Heliopolis, Denise is part of a very special musical endeavour. Born and raised in the slums and now performing in one of the nation’s most beautiful conference halls, it provides an escape from a life of poverty that few could have imagined. “I know I will succeed in life, even with my parents not believing in me. One day they will see.”

I think education is a good in its own right. Future financial profit is not the only thing to give education - or a degree - its worth.

But then I come from an inner-city environment where few ever go to college. Most peoples backgrounds are blue-collar in skilled and non-skilled labor. Most in my age range are probably unemployed as well. So, I’ve been upbraided by some for actually majoring in biology. For them… anything spending more than 1 or 2 years in school for is worthless. You go to school - if you go - for a specific job. Period. And in their minds you don’t need a bachelor degree to even get into medical school.

Then you have liberal people majoring in one of the humanities that worship science and god-forbid you don’t fall down worshiping at the feet of the null hypothesis. In their minds science is rational but also sweet, kind, emotionally sensitive, and everything nice.

Then there is the type of conservative that only thinks the STEM majors are worthwhile because for him or her all things go back to profit and competition with China and India that are pumping out engineers. China in fact is pumping out so many engineers companies can purchase two or three Chinese engineers for the same price as one U.S. engineer.

Science is not sweet and nice. It’s not emotional either. Science has no emotions, it has a heart as cold as ice. Science is the biggest prick on the block. Largely because it sleeps with that harlot called mathematics.

 

[JaneGrey]

There are plenty of tough guys that were raised by single women.

Plus, protecting someone you love is often instinctual. Assuming fear does not get the better of you. But it’s the reason why I don’t think you need to mistreat dogs or feed them gun powder to get them to protect you. My experience with my own dogs were that if you love them they will protect you anyways.

I guess I’m saying it seems to me a boy raised by a single mother would as an adult defend his girlfriend that he loves from a male rapist if she was attacked in front of him. Who would win is another matter. But being raised with a father in the house does not de facto mean you’ll win in a violent encounter. I’m a pretty small guy, and I can tell you my odds would not be well in a small prison cell with some 300 pound behemoth of a man that was reared by a single mother and grew up to ride Harley’s with the Mongols motorcycle club, or enforce protection money for the Philadelphia mob or the California Bloods in prison.

I’m not into the metro-sexual thing either. At least not to the extent “metro-sexualism” takes grooming and pampering.

But traditionally a lot of your wealthy, urban, tough guys dressed and groomed (and were at least scented with aftershave) with some precision. Even military men believe in being showered, scented, and pressed when not in the field.

Example of the kind of urban guy with money I’m talking about: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Balistrieri

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d8/FrankBalistrieri.jpg/250px-FrankBalistrieri.jpg

The FBI called him that because he was always dressed to the T’s and well groomed like an old school mob boss.

Good points.

 

[JaneGrey]

Except in reality it’s not all hunky-dory. Student Loan Defaults are now reaching 10% (highest in decades). Also many working at Target and McDonald’s do not earn enough to pay off the $70,000 Women’s Studies major. Ever notice these Lib Arts majors are always going for their “Master’s”?

I’m not saying it’s shameful to work at Target or MccyDees…What I’m saying is that people need to use common sense when going to college. Getting a degree in Pop Culture will land you a job working as a barista at Starbucks making $11/hour…that is of course you have a crony who can land you a better job. Honestly I talk to every grounded person who majored and Liberal Arts and it’s all the same. They didn’t feel their college years were wasted but their degree certainly was.

Sorry “fluffy” majors are not finding a way to making it work. The data is not in your favor.

When people go to college, they need to be grounded and not buy into the garbage being shoved down everyone’s throat about “You can do it!, You’re a Winner! You can major in anything you want! ”

Nah sorry the real world doesn’t work like that. Not everyone can be an actor or singer. There are only so many museums that need curators. People need to look at the job market and see the supply and demand…(Yes there are too many unemployed/underemployed JDs and MBA’s). College is (whether people like it or not) is about a job…not education. Nobody goes to college anymore for an education, they go because they hope they can get a job when they graduate. Well they need to get skills, not $80,000 of something that will never be used.

As a buddy of mine has stated a list of savings when forgoing “fluff” degrees:

Degree: / Replacement: / Savings:

Foreign Languages / Language Software / $29,721
Philosophy / Read Socrates / $29,980
Women’s Studies / Watch Daytime TV / $30,000
Journalism / Start a blog / $30,000
Radio-Broadcasting / Apply / $30,000
Political Science / Listen to talk radio / $30,000
Theater / Audition for a play / $30,000
Literature / Go to the library / $30,000
English / Speak English / $30,000

Depends how you define ‘success’. Like I said, even engineering majors should not be deluded into thinking that the world is their oyster just because their degree is ‘practical’.

About your list - man I hope its joke because all the major inaccuracies aside, I worry about any friend of yours who thinks talk radio has anything to do with actual political science.

 

[JaneGrey]

My opinion on ANY kind of degree…

If you cannot make the money to pay off the student loans that come with it…then it’s not worth pursuing.

Unfortunately…all degrees are expensive. Most people have to take out the equivalent of one year’s salary in a nominal, entry level job.

How far behind the game are you when you walk into that nominal job with 4 years salary in debt (plus the interest piling up)…and that is WITHOUT the other bills like rent, gas, food, electricity and heat. I don’t see how it’s possible for any college grad to pay back those loans for a degree they can’t purposely use?

That is the result of going to a regular state school. Never mind the amount it takes to attend a private school or an elite ivy league school.

Sure scholarships are available. But not for everyone and not enough to pay off the entire bill for one year. I did very well in school and applied for about 25 scholarships. This resulted in my earning a couple grand total. That was eaten up very quickly by books (which are also SO expensive) and general living expenses the first year. I had a grant that paid for a very small percentage of tuition…but the vast majority (probably 80% of it) was paid in loans.

I went to school for a BFA and realized quickly it was a total and complete waste of my time and money. What was worse…I couldn’t transfer any of the credits I earned to another school because they were all considered humanitarian credits besides the one english class I took. It was a complete waste of money and I was stuck with the bill.

I saved about $700 when I came home and get my EMT certification and started working full time and paid off the loan. I could have used that money for savings and investments and would have been in the positive if I hadn’t gone to school.

Most college grads move back home with mom and dad and many, many of them default on their loans.

I don’t judge people who get so-called “fluff” degrees. If you can afford it or can get a free-ride somewhere. If you have to take out a loan…I would think LONG and HARD before I considered a degree that limits your employment opportunities. Loans are a massive and unsafe gamble of your finances and credit rating. You could be destroying your chances of buying a house or a car or anything else…instead of improving them.

My husband has no degree and no desire to ever get one. He still bought a house and was earning about 60k a year working in the military. I was earning 40k before I became a mother and quit to go back to school (which the military is paying for…in full).

No one thinks about trade work anymore. We will always need electricians, plumbers, auto-workers, carpenters and other do-it-yourself career paths. Many kids can go to a vocational school for their high school years and be earning good money by the time they graduate. They will be licensed and have the advantage of being hired by the people they did apprentice work with or through word of mouth with their instructors.
That was how I was hired as an EMT right away. My instructor got me in tough with his SIL who worked as management for an ambulance company. I was hired immediately.

The vast majority of students aren’t built for a college degree. Period. My husband is one of them. The work is too much. Why force them to do something that they aren’t built for. Why not give them the chance to do a trade instead?

I regret going to college when I did. I know plenty of people who have degrees and are drowning in debt and can’t find a job for their theatre degree or their philosophy degree and are working at Target. Not that working at Target is bad but I can’t imagine they had it mind upon graduation.

Some companies don’t want to hire college grads because they know these grads want better pay and will demand better pay. It’s easier to hire the person who doesn’t have a degree because they can pay them less for the same kind of work.

One should never let themselves be pressured into a degree if they have judged it to not be the thing for them. However, just like it would be disrespectful to belittle what work you do with your life, I think belittling someone’s degree is pretty disrespectful as well.

Yes, not everyone can become a famous actress or distinguised academic. However people I know with such degrees do go on to make something of themselves in a variety of fields. If someone leaves university convinced that their degree by itself is going to take them places, then perhaps the problem is more with the people than their degrees.

 

[pnewton]

A men’s rights activist? What rights do men not have?

Men have the same rights as women, yet we have women’s rights groups. We have civil rights groups, even though we already have the 14th Amendment.

Having a right already doesn’t mean you can’t try and get preferential treatment.

 

[Kelfa28]

One should never let themselves be pressured into a degree if they have judged it to not be the thing for them. However, just like it would be disrespectful to belittle what work you do with your life, I think belittling someone’s degree is pretty disrespectful as well.

Yes, not everyone can become a famous actress or distinguised academic. However people I know with such degrees do go on to make something of themselves in a variety of fields. If someone leaves university convinced that their degree by itself is going to take them places, then perhaps the problem is more with the people than their degrees.

Very, very few people can make it as a successful actress/actor. Getting a degree will not help you in the matter. A theatre degree may help you get work backstage but it won’t help you with auditions. If you don’t “look” the part the second you step into the audition…the casting director couldn’t care less about your credentials.

I agree…it’s disrespectful to belittle anyone who earned a degree in any subject. It takes hard work to earn a degree in any field.

What I don’t like is the upturned noses I get from people when I tell people I don’t have a degree. I’m apparently doing a disservice to myself and my family because I’ll never make any money with only a high school diploma and some trade experience. I’ll make substantially less money and am less educated.

I don’t think so. I have a house, I have plenty of savings and no debt. I’m on my own with a family and I couldn’t be happier. I can’t say the same for many of my friends and other relatives who are in their late twenties with no job prospects and have TONS of college debt they can’t pay off. The ONLY reason I’m getting a degree is because the military is offering to pay for it, the books and help me with my mortgage while I’m in school. I can’t turn that down. Otherwise, I wouldn’t even bother. I’ll never take on anymore debt that isn’t a mortgage.

Student loan debt is higher then credit card debt now. More and more people default now then ever before and everyone is still being told…you HAVE to go to college to do anything or get anywhere in life. That is a false statement.

Why is always the vocation kids I know that have stable lives, homes and families and the college graduates that seem to be struggling because they have to move back home with mom and dad, are pressured to get their masters and take on MORE debt and delay life events further like marriage and families because they can’t cope unless they finish school and get a job that is worth it to them.

Don’t tell me I’m doing a disservice to myself and my family for not going to college because I’ll be making “a million dollars less in my lifetime” then a college student…and I won’t tell you your degree in woman’s studies and the six figures you have in student loan debt isn’t a waste of your life.

 

[TimeEntrance]

What I don’t like is the upturned noses I get from people when I tell people I don’t have a degree. I’m apparently doing a disservice to myself and my family because I’ll never make any money with only a high school diploma and some trade experience. I’ll make substantially less money and am less educated.

You have people like that. I ran into them before I got back into school.

I don’t think so. I have a house, I have plenty of savings and no debt. I’m on my own with a family and I couldn’t be happier. I can’t say the same for many of my friends and other relatives who are in their late twenties with no job prospects and have TONS of college debt they can’t pay off. The ONLY reason I’m getting a degree is because the military is offering to pay for it, the books and help me with my mortgage while I’m in school. I can’t turn that down. Otherwise, I wouldn’t even bother. I’ll never take on anymore debt that isn’t a mortgage.

I got back into school right after my GI Bill ran out. So, I’m on loans. However, the State of Wisconsin provides it’s state military veterans with it’s own GI Bill and I could attended the state funded community colleges and universities free of charge. I don’t, however, and take on debt because it provides me extra income. It’s debt I’m willing to take on.

A trade is fine and can provide a comfortable life in terms of earnings. One can also learn a trade and go into business on their own. I used to do commercial and residential painting and my employer started off as a union painter. Today he runs a small non-union painting shop and is worth over a million dollars.

But even the U.S. military likes to recruit college graduates. I got a school email from a Chief in the U.S. Navy sent to all STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics) students with an attached pamphlet. The U.S. Navy is offering to pay 100% of the tuition of any graduates that are accepted into medical or dental school. Plus, pay them $2,000 a month. Then pay them over $80,000 a year once in residency. Then it goes up to over $90,000 a year.

Non-STEM graduates can also consider signing up for officer candidate school in the military and going in as a commissioned officer, higher pay, more respect, and I believe the military will pay off your college debt.

Student loan debt is higher then credit card debt now. More and more people default now then ever before and everyone is still being told…you HAVE to go to college to do anything or get anywhere in life. That is a false statement.

You have to go to college to get into certain careers though. Usually your more high paying careers. There is no way to become an ophthalmologist without going to medical school. You are not getting into medical school without completing undergraduate course work.

A medical degree is a financial type passport as well. Unlike being a house painter or a plumber. If the economy sank in the U.S. those with medical degrees could quickly - and with great welcome - enter other nations.

A law degree is less likely to do this. But even with a law degree you can go back to painting houses or digging ditches and still try your best to wiggle your way into opportunities representing up-and-coming boxers and mixed martial artists. If your degree is in criminal law you can work quick misdemeanor cases for cash.

Having a trade or degree is not bad. What is worse is not having a degree or any skilled trade behind you.

Continued below…

 

[TimeEntrance]

Kelfa28 said:

Why is always the vocation kids I know that have stable lives, homes and families and the college graduates that seem to be struggling because they have to move back home with mom and dad, are pressured to get their masters and take on MORE debt and delay life events further like marriage and families because they can’t cope unless they finish school and get a job that is worth it to them.

Some - not many - college graduates (especially from “professional schools”; e.g. law school) leave college with impressive job offers. Some young professionals in the financial sectors make money that would boggle your mind.

Ultimately it’s all a game with no guarantees. A skilled trade or a degree is no guarantee of anything today.

But a person can do worse than investing in their person and future. I think of martial arts like that. Or a person going to cooking school. A person apprenticed as a cabinet maker. A person working their way up into lower management at a large retail store.

There are less conventional places (and paths) to learning something as well.

ESI comes to mind: esi-lifeforce.com/

The Wisconsin Conservatory of Music comes to mind: wcmusic.org/

http://www.esi-lifeforce.com/images/imagescontent/Dordal-Pete.jpg
Peter Dordal J
Board of Directors

Pete DordalPete Dordal began his career with 8 years in the U.S. Marine Corps, serving in Beirut, Lebanon with the 2nd Reconnaissance Battalion and then at Quantico as a combat skills instructor. He has a degree in Criminal Justice and is a graduate of over 25 formal military, law enforcement and security training courses. He has a Masters degree in Business Administration from the McColl Graduate School of Business and a degree in security administration. A frequent media commentator on terrorism and security issues, he sits on the Board of Directors of Nevins, Inc. and Executive Security International, Ltd., one of the oldest security training academies in the U.S. Pete graduated from ESI in 1984 while still in the Force Recon Unit, and Pete is the principal advisor and consultant on ESI’s Special Operations training program. Mr. Dordal was elected to the ESI Board of Directors in 2005.

I know a young guy that has worked years in security, has a bachelor degree in criminal justice, is physically in shape, and is an advanced student in the martial art of JKD. Yet… the Milwaukee Police Department has never hired him (he’s applied) but they’ve hired overweight women and men that come from backgrounds in plumbing.

It was my uncle a former Milwaukee police officer (and former Army MP) that told me you don’t need a degree in criminal justice to become a cop and that his department has taken men with no degrees that used to be tradesmen like plumbers. He also told me there is no reason to enlist in the U.S. military if you want to become a cop down the line.

It’s all a dice roll really.

 

[Baelor]

Kelfa28:

Why is always the vocation kids I know that have stable lives, homes and families and the college graduates that seem to be struggling because they have to move back home with mom and dad, are pressured to get their masters and take on MORE debt and delay life events further like marriage and families because they can’t cope unless they finish school and get a job that is worth it to them.

It is not a problem if someone gets married later in his life. It is also erroneous to assume that the sole reason for going to college is to get a better job.

 

[Kelfa28]

A trade is fine and can provide a comfortable life in terms of earnings. One can also learn a trade and go into business on their own. I used to do commercial and residential painting and my employer started off as a union painter. Today he runs a small non-union painting shop and is worth over a million dollars.

Same with my husband’s cousin. He was a high school drop out and earned his GED. He started working retail and then got into marketing beauty products. No college degree and he is a multi-millionaire.

But even the U.S. military likes to recruit college graduates. I got a school email from a Chief in the U.S. Navy sent to all STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics) students with an attached pamphlet. The U.S. Navy is offering to pay 100% of the tuition of any graduates that are accepted into medical or dental school. Plus, pay them $2,000 a month. Then pay them over $80,000 a year once in residency. Then it goes up to over $90,000 a year.

In the army if you have been accepted into an MD program you can walk in as a Captain. If you have specialty like a Neuro-Surgeon or similar you can walk in as a Major. I know the military likes college grads. More and more people are looking into the military as an option because of the fact that the job market is slow. The military provides opportunities. They can’t take everyone, so college grads are a natural pick.

However, it is very difficult to get commissioned as a result. So many people have degrees. I’m in the Air Force and it’s very, very hard to get commissioned for most degrees. Most of my friends in the Air Force have degrees and they are NCOs with almost no hopes of getting commissioned because of the degrees they have. Most BAs won’t be commissioned. You need a specific degree and there needs to be an opening. When there is an opening you have to test…and you’re usually one of about thirty or more.

Plus…there is an unofficial “boys club” amongst the officers and enlisted. If you know people, go running with them and have family connections…you stand a much better chance of getting that commission opportunity.
Short but true story. My husband’s best friend worked his tail off to rise through the enlisted ranks, is well liked, has a fantastic record and earned a degree in intelligence. An opening in the intel squadron for an officer became available and he jumped at the opportunity. On paper he was perfect and he tested well.
He didn’t get it. Why? The officers wanted someone who would be easily molded and would get their coffee for them. He was a well-respected NCO and they picked an airman instead.

Non-STEM graduates can also consider signing up for officer candidate school in the military and going in as a commissioned officer, higher pay, more respect, and I believe the military will pay off your college debt.

Actually…unofficially…a second lieutenant is one of the lowest ranks…respect wise. Officers are brutal with their second lieutenants. Technically they outrank enlisted…but respect is earned and not granted. I’ve seen some pretty nasty things done between the officers. Phone calls get put on hold for awhile or ignored all together, some new officers are reduced to lunch and coffee runners, and forget about telling any enlisted above the rank of E-6 what to do.
But that’s a subjective opinion, of course.
As for paying off college debt?
That depends on what they are offering at that particular time. My husband was able to get a contract that included college debt payoff and a sign-on bonus when he re-enlisted for the second time.
I signed up about a year later and couldn’t get the debt payoff because they had eliminated it from all new contracts. I did get a decent sign-on bonus. Now, because of more budget cuts…those are going away too. My husband’s AFSC is being reduced to 1 year contracts for my particular Base due to budget cuts with no promise of re-enlistment opportunities and no sign-on bonuses.

You have to go to college to get into certain careers though. Usually your more high paying careers. There is no way to become an ophthalmologist without going to medical school. You are not getting into medical school without completing undergraduate course work.

A medical degree is a financial type passport as well. Unlike being a house painter or a plumber. If the economy sank in the U.S. those with medical degrees could quickly - and with great welcome - enter other nations.

This is exactly why I’m getting a nursing degree. Plus I have a leg up in hiring because of all the experience I’ve had working as an EMT and paramedic. However, it’s becoming more and more difficult to be hired as a nurse with only an associates. Hospitals want nurses with a bachelor’s degree. More education means more money.

 

[Kelfa28]

It is not a problem if someone gets married later in his life. It is also erroneous to assume that the sole reason for going to college is to get a better job.

That’s interesting since college is becoming more and more like a repeat of high school.

The classes I’ve taken are a complete joke. There is no way I can imagine anyone going to college to just further their education.

Not when the english classes, math classes and science classes consist of things I’ve learned in eighth grade. I can only learn how to write an essay, solve basic algebra problems and learn about the basic components of an atom so many times.

Sure, if you can get accepted into an Ivy league school or a good private school…then you are actually furthering your education.

It used to be an accomplishment to achieve a 4.0 GPA in college. Now, anyone who applies them self a little bit can get an A average. I have a 3.8 average and school is not my only responsibility.

 

[Baelor]

The classes I’ve taken are a complete joke. There is no way I can imagine anyone going to college to just further their education.

I am sorry that you have had a bad experience in college! That is not the case for me at all; it is difficult to reproduce the experience of being in a small department with world-class scholars.

Not when the english classes, math classes and science classes consist of things I’ve learned in eighth grade. I can only learn how to write an essay, solve basic algebra problems and learn about the basic components of an atom so many times.

Again, that is a matter of the courses, not the idea of the university.

Sure, if you can get accepted into an Ivy league school or a good private school…then you are actually furthering your education.

Indeed.

It used to be an accomplishment to achieve a 4.0 GPA in college. Now, anyone who applies them self a little bit can get an A average. I have a 3.8 average and school is not my only responsibility.

Again, this is not applicable to all universities!

You mentioned this earlier:

That is the result of going to a regular state school. Never mind the amount it takes to attend a private school or an elite ivy league school.

Although most schools do not have good/any financial aid based on need, many of the Ivy League schools do, as do Stanford and other schools like that. These schools, which are excellent, are also committed to ensuring that finances are not a factor against matriculation. Do they succeed? Not perfectly, but pretty well.

 

[TimeEntrance]

Kelfa, sounds like you’re at a community college. That’s where I started off. I can’t speak to every two-year college in the country but MATC (Milwaukee Area Technical College) is supposedly ranked by some as the #1 two-year college in the country. I was very happy with my experience at MATC.

Within academia community colleges are often looked down on. Some universities - or some colleges and schools within a university - won’t accept credits from a community college. One worry they have is grade inflation. Something you indirectly hinted at. However, I think some of this has more to do with elitism.

At any rate… I go to a 4th tier ranked university. Really, the ranking of universities into different tiers is meaningless to some degree. UW-Milwaukee has professors with doctoral degrees from Harvard and MIT. A student can study in a class under a competent instructor even at a 4th tier university or even at a community college.

But community colleges lend themselves more to those perhaps not yet prepared to enter university or a more challenging liberal arts college right out of high school. And I’ll tell you… professors at universities often are expected to conduct research and write books. And the undergraduate level is primarily a weeding out period for grad school. That’s something much different than the goals at community colleges. The process is not set up to weed out but to build even the weakest student into someone capable of going on to university to successfully finish their undergraduate work there.

You are also assuming too much about high schools across the United States. MATC in particular has worked closely with MPS (Milwaukee Public Schools) to help build the teachers at MPS in math as well as the students. Lots of MPS students can not do basic algebra. And my first two semesters at MATC I had to take remedial math (not college level math) before I could take intermediate algebra which is 200 level at MATC but 100 level at UW-Milwaukee.

The thing is college gets more difficult usually. Sometimes. Some 100 level courses in universities are meant to weed students out. But aside from that usually 200 level course are more difficult than 100 level courses. And 300 more difficult than 200. Now, imagine doing 400 level physics?

If 500 level courses are not more difficult certainly the students enrolled in those courses have greater expectations placed upon them than freshman’s attending university for the first time.

Graduate students also conduct research and many have to work as TA’s under professors running labs, discussion groups, and grading exams and papers. It’s not easy and I don’t envy grad students.

I’d look at your time in two-year college as preparation for university. And if you go to a large university like UW-Milwaukee or UW-Madison you’ll end up in huge lecture halls with far less help from your instructors.

As far as nursing schools some have more rigorous curriculum than others. As an example: UW-Milwaukee and MSOE (Milwaukee School of Engineering) both offer bachelor degrees for nursing. MSOE has a curriculum that offers more math though.

*(UW-Milwaukee accepts something like 70% of it’s applicants. A school like Harvard rejects something like 70% or 90% of its applicants. Harvard also has far more money. Harvard also attracts the brightest students and some of the most respected professors from around the world. That’s the real difference.) *

 

[TimeEntrance]

I am sorry that you have had a bad experience in college! That is not the case for me at all; it is difficult to reproduce the experience of being in a small department with world-class scholars.

Baelor, MATC in Milwaukee (not Madison) offers an associate degree in nursing. UW-Milwaukee I believe only offers a bachelor degree in nursing and graduate degrees in nursing. My understanding is that the lowest degree a university (a collection of colleges and schools) offers is a bachelor degree?

I’m saying this because it sounds to me like Kelfa is in a two-year college (community college) and not enrolled in a university. It also sounds like she may at best be halfway through her two-year degree.

My point is I don’t think she grasps the different roles two-year colleges and universities play.

 

[Baelor]

Baelor, MATC in Milwaukee (not Madison) offers an associate degree in nursing. UW-Milwaukee I believe only offers a bachelor degree in nursing and graduate degrees in nursing. My understanding is that the lowest degree a university (a collection of colleges and schools) offers is a bachelor degree?

I’m saying this because it sounds to me like Kelfa is in a two-year college (community college) and not enrolled in a university. It also sounds like she may at best be halfway through her two-year degree.

My point is I don’t think she grasps the different roles two-year colleges and universities play.

I was using college and university interchangeably; I should have been clearer.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Men have the same rights as women, yet we have women’s rights groups. We have civil rights groups, even though we already have the 14th Amendment.

The 14th amendment was ratified in 1868. Are you suggesting that the systematized oppression of non-white races in the U.S. ended in 1868? Or just that it is “over” now? Because if it’s the former…

 

[pnewton]

The 14th amendment was ratified in 1868. Are you suggesting that the systematized oppression of non-white races in the U.S. ended in 1868? Or just that it is “over” now?

Neither. I was referring to the equal protection clause. We all have equal protection under the law. If women can form groups to protect their rights, so can men. Goose and gander, literally at least as far as gender.

 

[JaneGrey]

It is not a problem if someone gets married later in his life. It is also erroneous to assume that the sole reason for going to college is to get a better job.

Great post. A person’s adult life does not start when they do things like get married and have children. We are living our lives now as they are, and everything we do, even the seemingly meaningless stuff, goes some way in shaping our characters for the future.