Annulment, is it contradictory to scripture or not?

[SyCarl]

I don’t see any contradiction… A protestant to protestant marriage is called a Civil marriage, it is NOT a sacramental marriage. The catholic would enter into a Civil marriage. Therefore Sacra mentally the marriage is invalid(unless dispensation is granted which makes the civil marriage a sacramental marriage), which the point you seem to be missing. Sacramentally the Catholic is entering a state of sin.

For the Protestant a Civil Annulment(Or divorce) would be required, once again this is different to a Catholic Annulment as it is an annulment obtained from Secular(Or protestant) Authorities…

The contradiction would be to put a Civil marriage on par with a sacramental marriage and Civil annulment(the kind a protestant can obtain) on par with a Catholic annulment. That would truly be contradictory.

Yes a Protestant marriage is considered a sacramental marriage because the sacrament takes place through the vows given not by the minister or priest. That is why a dispensation can be given, because it is actually a sacamental marriage.

 

[Montalban]

The Church doesn’t “allow” it as if it’s something that is done to a Marriage. It not, it’s simply a declaration after investigation that no Marriage actually took place.

SO that even after 20 years when a kid’s grown up to believe his family was sacramental, he can find out, via the church’s ruling that he’s been illegitimate the whole time!

 

[gmarie21]

SO that even after 20 years when a kid’s grown up to believe his family was sacramental, he can find out, via the church’s ruling that he’s been illegitimate the whole time!

Oh, please…legitimacy is not an issue within the Church, only in the eyes of the law. To call a child illegitimate is telling them they are less of a person (something the Church does NOT do). I’m not illegitimate in the eyes of the Church (even though I was born out of wedlock, adopted, and my parents divorced). Anyone who thinks they’re illegitimate needs help if that rules who they are.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Hi,

Can or do catholics get annulments from the church and still never get divorced?

 

[epostle]

“There is no such thing as an illegitimate child, only illegitimate parents.”

Mother Theresa

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Divorce and re-marriage is strictly prohibited in the Scriptures but yet many if not most Protestant Communities allow it without a second thought?

Ill have to look at these scriptures:thumbsup:

 

[epostle]

Can or do catholics get annulments from the church and still never get divorced?

No. A legal divorce is a requirement before an annulment can be applied for. Matters of custody and property are legal issues and non of the Church’s business. Not everybody is granted an annulment.

 

[gmarie21]

As a non-Catholic I believe an annulment is indeed contradictory to Scripture.

Only God knows the heart of man.

Only God knows if they were married in His eyes or they were not. No men on earth (outside of that covenant) can authoritatively determine this.

…

Have you EVER seen the questionaires for annulments? If you had you would understand the extent a tribunal goes through to understand the thinking of the moment vows were said.

Haven’t you ever known someone to promise to be open to children but yet proceed to take ABC for years and years because it just wasn’t the “right time” to have children, even though the other spouse was begging for children?

Or how about a spouse who had a wandering eye all the time but never showed it until after the vows? Many people lie (and do a good job of hiding their lie) to get or keep a person in their life because of their own reasons/insecurities.

Bless you if you’re not one of those people, but I’m afraid there are many who are not like you.

Heck I have heard many now-divorced people say that they only married their ex-spouse b/c they were dating and everyone else was getting married so they thought that it was time for them to do what their friends were doing. Wouldn’t you agree that that is NOT a good reason to get married?

The tribunal requires pages upon pages of questions to be answered in paragraph form. After the questions are answered and sent to the tribunal they then contact witnesses to the wedding and marriage to answer a list of questions in paragraph form. By the end of the process a person seeking an annulment really could have a memoir of their life leading all the way up to the divorce.

My dd’s dad is in the process (we are not married nor do we live together) and he is writing it out before typing. He has about 40 hand written pages and is still not finished answering all the questions. I believe that the tribunal will have a solid understanding of his lack of knowledge about the importance of marriage when he made his vows (he married a non-Christian and was never really taught about being equally yoked and the reason behind that teaching in the Bible, the priest who married them told him after the divorce that he wasn’t surprised b/c he knew they we’re going to have the issues they had that led to the divorce when they were going to pre-cana counseling with him - but the priest never addressed this fact in pre-cana, etc.).

 

[gmarie21]

I also forgot to mention that many times there are red flags (alarming qualities/events) before a wedding that one or both people ignore. It’s usually these same red flags that are the reason why a tribunal states that a valid marriage never existed. Many people are afraid to be alone and settle instead of letting someone go so that they can wait to enter a marriage validly. My dad is a person who could never be in a valid marriage, yet he is married for the second time (worse than his marriage to my mom which was pretty aweful).

 

[Gertabelle]

If someone says “until death do us part,” in any context, and fails to live up to it, they sin. If the church they are a member of helps them, the church is in sin.

I’ve known of couple who are cohabiting – no civil or sacramental marriage – who say “until death do us part.” The fact of their cohabitation means they are living in sin. Would you contend that they are “married” because they spoke these words – whether privately or to friends/family (perhaps in casual conversation over dinner at the local pub?) – for reasons which might include emotional insecurity, the desire to please family or partner, a hormonal rush, etc.?

My ex-husband and I (both cradle Catholics, both fallen away at the time of our civil marriage) were legally married by a justice of the peace. In the eyes of the Church we never entered into a sacramental marriage because we consciously chose not to include God in the marriage. Would you consider valid a union of this sort – one which consciously excludes God?

You say that anyone who fails to live up to “until death do us part” sins. I say (in agreement with the Church) that my ex and I sinned by cohabiting and having sex outside of marriage. And we sinned by excluding God from the union. How could any Christian possibly call that a marriage??

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

SO that even after 20 years when a kid’s grown up to believe his family was sacramental, he can find out, via the church’s ruling that he’s been illegitimate the whole time!

Legitimacy of children has nothing to do with the Church, only civil law. If something wasn’t, then it wasn’t! It does not matter if it was believed so for two, ten or twenty years.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Hi,

Can or do catholics get annulments from the church and still never get divorced?

Usually a civil divorce is required to be completed first. However the two are separate. The Church could find that a Marriage was invalid without the couple even wanting to divorce. The Church would do what was necessary to help the couple validate the Marriage in the Church.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Ill have to look at these scriptures:thumbsup:

It should not be easy or difficult. It is what it is, a complete and detailed investigation of the Marriage and exchange of vows and a declaration of it’s nullity or validity.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

It should not be easy or difficult. It is what it is, a complete and detailed investigation of the Marriage and exchange of vows and a declaration of it’s nullity or validity.

Thank you for the info.

 

[Atemi]

Except of course the one Church established by Christ and given His authority.

It seems you are saying that annulments are infallible decisions of the RCC.

Is this what you are saying?

Is every annulment granted without human error as if God Himself supplied it?

 

[Atemi]

Have you EVER seen the questionaires for annulments? If you had you would understand the extent a tribunal goes through to understand the thinking of the moment vows were said.

Thank you for your reply, but I don’t think you understood what I was said. I never mentioned anything about questionaires.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

It seems you are saying that annulments are infallible decisions of the RCC.

Is this what you are saying?

Is every annulment granted without human error as if God Himself supplied it?

It would not be the same as an infallible teaching of the Magisterium. It is the judicial authority of the local Bishop over the validity or invalidity of a Sacrament.

 

[cecilia97]

SO that even after 20 years when a kid’s grown up to believe his family was sacramental, he can find out, via the church’s ruling that he’s been illegitimate the whole time!

Since the Church is no longer a political power, legitimacy is now a matter of civil law. A finding of nullity does not affect the children in ANY way.

 

[pprimeau1976]

I am being challenged on the issue of annulment and why the church allows it. The person is raising the verse Matthew 19:9 as being where the bible contradicts annulment.

I have already pointed out that Annullment is diffrent to divorce.

Theologically speaking, anullments are different than what we now call divorce. Divorce in our language is a purely secular term, whereas anullments are both secular and ecclesial. But in Matthew 19:9 was Jesus concerned about civil divorces as opposed to declarations of nullity? I think that Jesus was opposed to both, personally. However, he did give Peter (and therefore his successors) the keys to the kingdom and the power to bind and loose. Doing so, he also gave the Church the power to grant anullments.

I think that you should mention to your friend how the Church struggles with this. It is a necessary process, such as in the cases where the safety of one spouse and children are concerned, but has known to be abused.

 

[Montalban]

Legitimacy of children has nothing to do with the Church, only civil law. If something wasn’t, then it wasn’t! It does not matter if it was believed so for two, ten or twenty years.

That’s not true at all. The Church, by declaring marriages to be valid, has long been a part of whether children are legitimate or not.