Annulment questions

[xxxBlackDogxxx]

Hello all. I have a problem I would like some help with, and I’d like to hear a few friendly voices (they are in very short supply these days). I am new to this site and came here mainly because I don’t have a lot of friends (I’m somewhat of a loner by nature) and no one I can talk to about this.

My (civil) divorce has recently been finalized. This has been a devastating time in so many ways. My wife divorced me because she doesn’t love me any more (she stated this to me in a meeting with our priest—nice, eh?). That’s not the reason she gave to everyone else, but that’s it. I didn’t contest the divorce because 1. I wanted to do as little harm as possible to my children. And 2. I knew it wouldn’t do any good.

Now that it’s over, she will be requesting an annulment. I know beyond any doubt that this marriage was valid. I know it and God knows it, regardless of whether it’s ratified or not. My problem is what to do. If it’s ratified, she’s free to re-marry and so am I; but I know that this was a valid, sacramental marriage.

Morally, could I accept the decision and re-marry, or even date, or consider myself single, even if the marriage was annulled?

If I participate in the annulment process, and am honest about the validity of the marriage, and they deny the request, I will be vindicated, but required to remain married with an absent spouse. That’s not a pleasant thought. I’m 38 and looking at a lot of years alone.

If I don’t participate and the annulment is granted, I think I would be guilty of not standing up for the dignity of marriage, and I fear she will be guilty of adultery (actually, I think she already is, if get my meaning).

If I do everything I can morally to state that this marriage was valid, and the annulment is granted anyway (as I’m sure it will be—I think the process is just a rubber-stamp formality), is it OK to consider myself unmarried?

What a mess. Any advice?

 

[dixieagle]

I’m certainly no expert on this, but, though you are absolutely certain of your proper disposition to marry at the time of your wedding, there is no way that anyone can be absolutely certain whether or not your wife may have had some psychological impediment.

It sounds to me as if her idea of “love” is skewed - as if it is just a passing romantic or physical attraction, not a decision one makes to commit to one person for a lifetime.

One person does not a valid marriage make; I’d have a good talk with your priest, participate in the tribunal process as honestly as possible, and be at peace with the outcome. I’ll keep you in my prayers.

 

[xxxBlackDogxxx]

I have thought of that. The only way I could, with clear conscience, consider this marriage invalid is if she were to reveal something of herself to indicate the invalidity, meaning that she hid an impediment that I, as of now, have no knowledge. That would make me feel much better. I wonder if the tribunal ever states how they come to a decision?

 

[JimG]

Now that it’s over, she will be requesting an annulment. I know beyond any doubt that this marriage was valid. I know it and God knows it, regardless of whether it’s ratified or not. My problem is what to do. If it’s ratified, she’s free to re-marry and so am I; but I know that this was a valid, sacramental marriage.

While you may believe this with virtual certainty, there is really no way that you can know it with absolute certainty, because you cannot know for sure what was in your wife’s mind at the time the vows were pronounced. Whether or not she firmly intended permanence, fidelity, and fertility, may be something for a tribunal to decide, after having collected all available evidence.

 

[dulcissima]

The only thing you can know with absolute certainty is your side. Your wife may have had reservations or may have felt obligated or pressured to marry you. She may have shared those with others. Who knows. She might have gone into it thinking that she’d stay with you as long as she loved you. You really don’t know.

Why not participate, really think about your answers, write it all out, be honest, and accept the decision of the tribunal. There are posters here on CAF whose petitions for nullity have been denied, so I wouldn’t consider it a rubber stamp.

You will have the chance to review the testimony and comment on it. So, by the time this is over, you will know her side and you will have had your say as well. Consider this a chance to get it all out there, and a chance to know for sure one way or the other where you stand. Having recently gone through the process, I can tell you that it really is very healing and is nothing at all like the divorce process.

My prayers are with you. I hope you find some peace.

 

[daughteroftruth]

Annulments are being granted left and right, makes one wonder, what’s the point of an annulment? “She didn’t mean the vows at the time, didn’t understand the committment, yada, yada, yada.” It’s sad, I really feel for you.

Stand up for the validity of the marriage. If there was no valid impediment, and it’s granted anyway, you’re still married.

Say you tell a priest that you missed Holy Mass on Sunday because you wanted to watch football. This is not a valid reason, and is a mortal sin. Say this priest says it’s not, just try to make it next time. The fact is, it is a sin, and the priest would not doing his job by making life “easier” for you. Same with annulments these days. If there’s no impediment but the annulment is granted, so what? You’re still married, and she is too. It could mean many years alone, but it would also mean many years in a state of grace, not to mention a wonderful example to your children (and others) of fidelity to God and perseverence, taking up your cross and following Him. Use the time wisely, pray for her conversion (your faithfulness here could mean her coming back to her marriage and, therefore, to God).

I hope this doesn’t sound harsh, just trying to be honest. :console: You will all be in my prayers.

 

[Viki63]

If your wife has committed adultery, as you imply, it suggests that her concept of marriage is not correct, which may make the marriage invalid. That would have nothing to do with your integrity regarding the marriage.
So if the annulment took place, you would be free to marry again.
My annulment was simple, I had little to do with the process beyond filling out paperwork with the help of my priest. The tribunal contacted some old friends who had witnessed problems in the marriage, and the annulment was granted.
Hope it works out for you, according to God’s will.

 

[Sillara]

I must concur with daughteroftruth. Marriage is not that hard to enter into! It is the most common vocation. It may be hard to live out, but it is not that hard to contract a valid marriage. I know (sadly) several people who have committed adultery, and not because they did not understand what marriage is, but simply because they wanted something (either sex or attention) from someone else. I know perfectly well that eating chocolate bars will ruin my diet. I fully intend NOT to eat chocolate bars. I go to the store, see a chocolate bar, buy and eat it. This does not mean that I do not understand what diets are, nor that I did not begin my diet in good faith. It simply means I failed. I screwed up my diet.

I am not, obviously, comparing the gravity of the two things. I am merely illustrating that it is fully possible for a person to know what marriage is, contract a VALID marriage, and still commit adultery. It happens; it’s ugly; it’s horrible for the betrayed spouse. It does NOT invalidate the marriage.

 

[chevalier]

BlackDog, it’s the Tribunal’s job to determine the validity of the marriage. They can’t “unmake” it in any way, but they are the judges, the fact-finders and fact-appraisers and they know their canon law too. If you lose and the marriage is found invalid, in most cases (excepting the obvious, such as discovering a blatant example of consanguinity, e.g. the “married” couple being long-lost siblings, and a couple of less obvious situations), a sentence for invalidity is automatically appealed. If the second instance also rules for invalidity, only then can the marriage be considered invalid. However, you can appeal the second instance too. If you get three sentences for invalidity and there’s no lie in what your wife or the witnesses say, no forged evidence etc, then you can be more sure of those sentences than of your own judgement, really.

I would warn you against, “God knows it’s valid.” God knows whether it’s valid or not and you don’t know what God knows.

Paradoxically, those people who so yearn for divorce and remarriage and for this reason want a nullity decree may actually be indeed in a null marriage. Their behaviour is a prime example of immaturity, lack of knowledge and lack of reason or even simulation of consent. If someone’s marriage is until his feelings last, that person has a long way to do yet.

 

[Just_Lurking]

Chevalier has a good idea about using the appeals process. If you don’t trust U.S. tribunals, then you can appeal directly to the Roman Rota, which, statistically speaking, does not hand out rubber-stamp annulments . It takes several years and costs thousands of dollars. If you just want to be certain about the nullity result, you can use the Rota as a third instance, so it does not stop your ex-wife from remarrying in the meantime. If, however, you want to be vindictive and stop your ex-wife from remarrying for nearly a decade, you can use the Rota as a second instance.

 

[xxxBlackDogxxx]

Chevalier has a good idea about using the appeals process. If you don’t trust U.S. tribunals, then you can appeal directly to the Roman Rota, which, statistically speaking, does not hand out rubber-stamp annulments . It takes several years and costs thousands of dollars. If you just want to be certain about the nullity result, you can use the Rota as a third instance, so it does not stop your ex-wife from remarrying in the meantime. If, however, you want to be vindictive and stop your ex-wife from remarrying for nearly a decade, you can use the Rota as a second instance.

However satisfying it might be to stop her for a decade, I probably shouldn’t. I have considered what the others have said about her possibly having some impediment that I just have no knowledge of. All I want to do is have a clear conscience and be faithful. I guess we’ll see what happens.

By the way, I love the name Just Lurking.

 

[xxxBlackDogxxx]

I would warn you against, “God knows it’s valid.” God knows whether it’s valid or not and you don’t know what God knows.

Yes, you’re right about that. What I guess I really think is that God knows that there is no impediment on my end–or at least God knows that *I *think there is no impediment on my end. Maybe God will let me know otherwise–I’ve certainly been wrong before!

Thanks for your response.

 

[Lerin]

Wow, I am so sorry you are going through the breakdown of your marriage!

My first marriage as a teen was not a valid one, and I have been through the annulment process before. At least in my experience, these are not men who simply give the okay when you fill out the paperwork. It is a very long and thorough process… quite emotionally exhausting! As other posters have said, you may have had no impediments on your end, but cannot be sure of hers.

Unless you know that there are lies in the evidence, I would trust that the Tribunal’s findings are correct. You cannot know her heart, as much as you wish you could.

Peace be with you!!!

 

[Just_Lurking]

However satisfying it might be to stop her for a decade, I probably shouldn’t. I have considered what the others have said about her possibly having some impediment that I just have no knowledge of. All I want to do is have a clear conscience and be faithful. I guess we’ll see what happens.

That’s a very healthy attitude for you to take. Good luck with whatever the tribunal decides.

By the way, I love the name Just Lurking.

Thanks. I started out lurking here for a few years before I joined up.

 

[rick43235]

Stand up for the validity of the marriage. If there was no valid impediment, and it’s granted anyway, you’re still married.

Same with annulments these days. If there’s no impediment but the annulment is granted, so what? You’re still married, and she is too.

Interesting argument. Does it work the other way too? What if the petitioner “knows” that there were impediments to a valid marriage, but due to the passage of time he is unable to gather enough witnesses or evidence to satisfy the tribunal…and his petition for a decree of nullity is denied? Is he still married?

 

[daughteroftruth]

If your wife has committed adultery, as you imply, it suggests that her concept of marriage is not correct, which may make the marriage invalid.

I’m sorry, but where do you come up with that? That is nothing more than an excuse (and a very lame one at that) and any member of the tribunal that falls for it needs to have his head checked.

That would have nothing to do with your integrity regarding the marriage.

His wife’s unfaithfulness does not effect his integrity, but his faithfulness to God will.

So if the annulment took place, you would be free to marry again.

Not if the “impediment” is her implied adultery.

 

[daughteroftruth]

Interesting argument. Does it work the other way too? What if the petitioner “knows” that there were impediments to a valid marriage, but due to the passage of time he is unable to gather enough witnesses or evidence to satisfy the tribunal…and his petition for a decree of nullity is denied? Is he still married?

Then that person is guilty of purposefully entering into an invalid marriage.

If one has no knowledge of an impediment and just wants to take the easy way out, and accepts a false annulment, he and/or she, sins seriously, if not mortally.

We’re called to carry our crosses, this life isn’t about getting everything we want, when we want it, how we want it. That is not the Christian way, it never has been.

 

[xxxBlackDogxxx]

Let me clarify. My fear is that she would be guilty of adultery if she were to re-marry after what was, in reality, a valid marriage, if I didn’t protest during the annulment process and it was ratified. I *suspect *that she has already committed adultery physically, after our divorce (I guess at this point I have no idea whether she did before or not). I suppose that’s both sides of the same coin, but one would leave her in a permanent state–not good. Part of the problem is that I don’t know what power the tribunal has. Does the tribunal have the power, before God, to nullify a marriage, even if the result was either deceitfully gained (by her), or gained by omission (me)?

All I know for sure is that there was no impediment on my part and I am not aware of one on hers. Although, as nuts as she’s been…

I do think she is capable of, eh, *stretching the truth *in order to get an annulment, but I am not *positive *that she will. There is every chance that she’ll try to convince the tribunal that the inherant fault is mine! :banghead:

My goal here is to have a clear conscience, stand up for sacramental marriage, and do the right thing. It’s all so confusing! If there is an impediment on her part, fine. I’m just concerned that she just didn’t want to be married *to me *anymore and this is her way of replacing an undesirable marriage with a better one.

Does that make any sense?

 

[chevalier]

Yes, you’re right about that. What I guess I really think is that God knows that there is no impediment on my end–or at least God knows that *I *think there is no impediment on my end. Maybe God will let me know otherwise–I’ve certainly been wrong before!

Thanks for your response.

My pleasure. Apart from impediments, which are easy (age, impotence, prior marriage, unbaptised spouse, holy orders, public perpetual vow of chastity, abduction, procuring death of spouse for the purpose of remarriage, consangunity, affinity, public propriety - i.e. a result of invalid marriage or notorious and public concubinage analogous to affinity, adoption), there are also defects of consent.

It is important to understand that marriage is not always valid as long as the parties are not related or there’s no shotgun father. Defects of consent include lack of reason, lack of discretion of judgement concerning essential matrimonial duties exchanged between spouses, inability to assume the duties of marriage for reasons of psychic nature, ignorance of the fact that marriage is a permanent partnership ordered to procreation through some means of sexual cooperation (not presumed after puberty), error as to person (i.e. identity), error as to a principally and directly intended quality of a person (the quality being a cause of marriage is not sufficient), being maliciously led into error concerning a quality that can gravely disturb the partnership of conjugal life, force or fear, simulation, condition concerning the future.

Simulation is the exclusion, by a positive act of will, of an essential element or property of marriage. This is primarily exclusion of 1) faith (fidelity), 2) sacrament (indissolubility), 3) progeny (children). The language of canon law doesn’t seem to limit it just to these three, but it would have to be something extremely important, i.e. truly essential. As for what you need to prove it, the Rota wants serious evidence. Merely joking about divorce is not enough. The Code of Canon Law itself also says that error concerning dissolubility doesn’t invalidate marriage if it doesn’t determine will.

Speaking of: impediments, consent.

I’m sorry, but where do you come up with that? That is nothing more than an excuse (and a very lame one at that) and any member of the tribunal that falls for it needs to have his head checked.

If you exclude indissolubility, you reach for divorce when it’s convenient to you. If you exclude faithfulness, you cheat when it’s convenient to you. If you are psychically unable not to cheat, you cheat. If you have a tremendous lack of judgement regarding cheating, you cheat.

It doesn’t work the other way round, but it can give a clue. Of itself, it’s not enough, but it can help establish the state of mind of the person at the moment of contracting marriage. Merely being capable of adultery is not enough. I remember reading an argument that intending that one will cheat once or twice in violation of his obligation, is not enough either. One would have to reject the obligation itself. Or be under compulsion to cheat.

Interesting argument. Does it work the other way too? What if the petitioner “knows” that there were impediments to a valid marriage, but due to the passage of time he is unable to gather enough witnesses or evidence to satisfy the tribunal…and his petition for a decree of nullity is denied? Is he still married?

That is the reason why it is important to keep making the point that the proper name of the nullity ruling is a “declaration of nullity”. Marriages are either valid or null, but it needs a proper Church authority to make the determination. The Church does not annul the marriage in the sense of looking at the marriage and deciding whether it should be allowed to continue or retroactively deleted. If you’re sacramentally and validly married and have consummated your marriage, the Church herself says she can’t do anything about it (Can. 1141 A marriage that is ratum et consummatum can be dissolved by no human power and by no cause, except death.). An erroneous nullity ruling does not dissolve a valid marriage, let alone retroactively annul it. A person relying on it in good faith does not sin by attempting to marry, but the attempt is still invalid.

Now, if a person can’t prove an impediment or defect of consent or lack of form, wich - let’s take it as granted for the purpose of discussion - is true, then that erroneous verdict does not convalidate that marriage. The person is therefore unmarried. This includes it objectively being fornication to sleep with your “spouse”, e.g. you lost the only piece of evidence that your spouse is your long-lost sibling and no-one believed you, including a tribunal.

The person, unfortunately, is still forbidden to remarry, but it appears that while illicit (illegal, unlawful and wrong to do), a subsequent marriage is valid because only a valid marriage makes an impediment (Catholic Encyclopedia: ligamen; warning: the language is difficult and the information is a century old).

Remember that the Tribunal are good lawyers, priests and have charisms of their order. And so does the second instance and the Rota. If the SCOTUS were all professors of law of unblemished character and disinterested in politics, the Rota would still be much less likely to be wrong.

 

[ConservativeOne]

First, I’ll say DaughterofTruth spoke well.

Next - and you’ll either love or hate this one - Your wife just gave you, the Tribunal and the Diocese — the obvious grounds for NO POSSIBLE ANNULMENT. She doesn’t love you “any more”? That’s like a pregnant Mom getting morning sickness and saying she doesn’t like being pregnant any more…uh, too late.

There is nothing in annulment procedures - to my knowledge - that will suit someone’s WHIMS, (i.e. love you, love you not) which this sounds like. If your wife HAD entered into the marriage not knowing what she was doing, she’d be using that excuse currently. It doesn’t sound that way. As hard as this must be for you - please listen to your own quote of her words. That is YOUR CONCRETE evidence that she has no grounds for an annulment. As a Catholic - as difficult as your situation, emotionally, must be - I’d fight an annulment tooth and nail.

The fact that she’s asking for an annulment means she wants to continue in the Catholic Church - probably re-marry - but that she apparently does not know her Faith or she’d know her excuse is groundless. If she weren’t trying to stay in the Church, she’d just get a divorce. She wants to have her cake and eat it, too. Life isn’t that way. It’s up to you and so many victims of this situation who give in. I can’t speak against decisions of Holy Mother the Church - but you acknowledge there being no initial impediment - therefore, the validity of the marriage. Hence, your concern about re-marrying yourself.

Go to your Diocese or any Diocese to meet privately and get the facts. You’d be surprised the do’s and don’ts that many are unaware of. My heart hurts for you. May God and Our Lady give you strength.