annulment turned down, what is next step

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Thank you. I understand what you’re saying. I am very emotionally involved in this. I understand what you mean about presumptions; my intent was to say that what we thought was written was not read within the meaning of how it was written. The words were read differently. I am not asking for the Tribunal to read something not there. They used the words “Family tales” re: witness statements. Why would more than one person write the same thing under oath? Unfortunately, his witnesses are limited and are family. Twice within the verdict the same wrong dates were given: one by the defender and one by the judge. The dates were for the time period they had known each other, extending the time period to almost a year before they were engaged. In actuality, they knew each other less than six months before they were engaged. This was quite clear in the application. The result of this error suggests they knew each other almost a year and a half pre-engagement instead of less than six months. I suggested to my spouse that maybe he should’ve appealed just based on this information, but he felt that this alone would probably not carry any weight. I don’t know. All I know is it’s gonna take someone with some very strong writing skills and knowledge - a Canon lawyer - to get this in correctly, as Chevalier suggested often. I don’t know if I regret him not appealing, I don’t know if these errors alone are good enough to overturn a verdict. The trauma of the verdict coming at the same time as a cancer diagnosis was too much for he and I to handle at that time, and it is still difficult. Fortunately, the prognosis is very good, though he can’t get into writing with what is on his plate right now. I want everyone to know that sharing thoughts, suggestions, has been very much appreciated.
 
forgetmenot said:
… All I know is it’s gonna take someone with some very strong writing skills and knowledge - a Canon lawyer - to get this in correctly, as Chevalier suggested often.
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I recommend that you listen.
I have read this thread and prayed for you. All I can do say (as a canon lawyer who has worked with nullity cases since the early 1980s) is to strongly encourage that you contact one. The tribunal should itself be able to assist you in finding one.
So many comments have been off the mark and meadering into irrelevant topics or just plain wrong (though admittedly, there is a sprinkling of correct comments and good advice).
There is a profound spiritual danger in anyone speculating or giving counsel in a particular case that ought to be given by trained experts. I would not like that on my conscience but wonder if that point does not weigh so heavily on some others.
I will keep you and others in this situation in prayer these remaining days of Advent. May God bless you.
 
God bless you. You’re right, I should listen. There has been so little consolation. Can’t ask for it from my spouse because he’s dealing with both issues. No one basically to talk to about it who truly understands, though tomorrow I will be seeing a Catholic counselor for help because of the tremendous pain I feel. I just have felt so very alone in this situation, guidance has been limited. When he asked for help directly to the Tribunal he was afforded none, that they have no Advocate. This was before any decisions were rendered, but at the point where he was told it was just about a done deal. I really appreciate your concern and especially your prayers which bring tears to my eyes. Thank you.
 
My only advice to you is that you two live as brother and sister until this matter can be cleared up. Being in full communion with the Church will give more peace than any act of sin. It may also properly “motivate him” to take this issue as a pressing one. The state of our soul is just as important if not more important than the state of our body.
 
Hi Everybody! I am back from my cruise! I had a great time and it helped me not to get too depressed during these winter months.

Forgetmenot - I also wrote on the topic of Annulment in L.A. Tribunal. Please go read it.
I am totally supportive of you and others going through their annulments.

Rachel - Welcome to our support group. I call it a support group because most of us have no one to discuss our annulments with. My priests are too busy with Church activities to
to be hearing about my annulment. All they have to say to me is to stay positive and not to call the Tribunal because they are too busy. Plus, they know about all of the red tape of paper work. I don’t blame them at all for what they have to say to me because I am a very strong lady and I feel I can handle this problem with the help of God. I also like having a support group like you all because I have learned a lot from some of you.

My own family members don’t really care to hear about my annulment process. My own sister told me yesterday that she is truly bored hearing about my annulment. She changed the subject on me. My Mom acts like “DUH”…what is your problem? She claims lack of memory of my marriage problems. She denies her envolvement of pushing me into getting married. She has a sharp mind but claims lack of memory. I respect my Mom so she can go ahead and claim she is not at fault. It keeps her happy.

My ex-spouse chose not to fill out the annulment questionaire because he was afraid of being caught in his own lies. My adult son thinks that his dad just lies too much about things and doesn’t want to be caught in his lies by the Catholic Tribunal. So he played it safe and threw me under the bus in the dust. It was my adult son’s idea that I file for the annulment so his dad can marry his wife of 30yrs in the Catholic church. My son is just praying that I get the annulment. That is all he can do for me. He also doesn’t like to discuss the annulment with me either.

You can all see that is why I am here talking to you all who are going through the process of annulment. You are my only support group. Please forgive me if somethings I say things that are stupid. I get angry sometimes.

Forgetmenot, You finally read the letter… It is so stupid of your Tribunal Office to think that highly educated professional people don’t have INNER PROBLEMS… like they stated in their letter to your spouse. I am super highly educated and worked at UCLA for many years as a professor. All the years of my working life I suffered with my mental illness of depression, anxiety, post tramatic stress, anger, and fear of life situations. I have been seeing a therapist for many years.

I know of highly educated people who worked as doctors, lawyers, professors, teachers, CEO’s, U.S. Presidents, millionaires, actors, entertainment workers, famous people. etc. who have been mentally ill and had INNER PROBLEMS. I can state a lot of names but I don’t like to throw stones because I am not perfect myself.
Just because some of us are highly educated doesn’t mean we don’t have inner problems.

John Cameron, Thank you for your advise. YOU are the trained expert as a Canon lawyer.
I believe that only Canon lawyers are the trained experts.

John - It would be nice to be able to meet trained experts who have lots of experience with helping people apply for their annulments. BUT… the reality is that it is truly hard to find a trained expert in our communities that are willing to take the time to help us.

My new friend here by the name of “Forgetmenot” COULD really use your expert advise.
I hope you can send her a private message and help her out. She is not able to give all of her information here because that is PRIVATE INFO. that she has to keep private from us here on this website.

If I told everybody my childhood and adult life experience you who believe me would cry. Those who have had happy lives would not believe the abuse I received in my life. I try to keep my whole life experience private.

There are some people here who don’t really understand our personal situation of our annulment situations. To them I want to say that I will not answer you back if you critize sp what I have to say. Yes, I have made some stupid remarks and statements… but that is what I want to say at the time I am writing to the people who ARE going through the same process as I am.
People who have never been through an annulment don’t truly understand our situation. Canon Lawyers like John Cameron understand because they know the process and the canon laws and the new annulment updates.

It is not an easy process. It is very hard on us emotionally and we all need your prayers.
PEACE & JOY, LaLucia
 
cameron_lansing said:
I recommend that you listen.
I have read this thread and prayed for you. All I can do say (as a canon lawyer who has worked with nullity cases since the early 1980s) is to strongly encourage that you contact one. The tribunal should itself be able to assist you in finding one.
So many comments have been off the mark and meadering into irrelevant topics or just plain wrong (though admittedly, there is a sprinkling of correct comments and good advice).
There is a profound spiritual danger in anyone speculating or giving counsel in a particular case that ought to be given by trained experts. I would not like that on my conscience but wonder if that point does not weigh so heavily on some others.
I will keep you and others in this situation in prayer these remaining days of Advent. May God bless you.
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Thank you voice of wisdom!
 
LaLucia - Hello. You are very right in what you said about all of us needing support. Like you said, most people, including children, relatives, don’t want to hear it. They don’t feel the pain. Oftentimes the remarks are unkind and uncaring, not because they intend to be, but because they are truly unconcerned. It’s our deal, not theirs. At my age, I don’t have a father or mother to go to; nor do I have a sibling I can go to, either. It has been extremely difficult as I cannot find consolation from my spouse right now, though he is upset about it but is also facing his health issue. I’ve been seeking help in trying to deal, in trying to know which way to go. This is why I came here, because I felt I had no where to turn. I needed advice and support. Deacon Cameron is very right about listening, and, like he said, there are good answers here and some not so good answers. Our problems have been finding the right people to help. When my spouse is able, and, hopefully not too down on the system, we will find the right help. My prayers for everyone here going through this process. Just as you have listened to me, I will listen and try to encourage you. As always, my thanks.
 
Forgetmenot- Hello, I do listen but who is really listening to us who are going through our annulments? I think that the best that people who are not going through an annulment and come here to read and give us advise need to also pray for us more than anything they can do for us. I believe in the power of prayer. The people who pray for me here have always helped me a lot.

When I read Cameron’s message I felt something very spiritual about him. It truly inspired me that at last we have someone who truly understands what we are going through.

I am so sorry your husband is seriously ill at this time. It will be Christmas soon and then the New Years. I think it will at least be nice that you have your husband for the holidays.

I have so many things I need to do in my personal life right now. It is really keeping me busy.
I truly enjoy reading what people have to say here on this message board. If I don’t agree with what someone says… I just let it go in one ear and out of the other.lol. I don’t answer them back because they really don’t truly know our situations we are in with the Tribunal system.

Talk to you later. Hugzz, LaLucia
 
Hello. We are living a very similar situation, though my husband of 24 yrs. is not yet Catholic. He went through 2 yrs of RCIA while awaiting Tribunal. Tribunal refused annulment because there are no living witnesses (ex wife had affair, left him and kids, married other man. Wife was not committed to support him through marriage in other ways.). My annulment is clear. But a priest is insisting that if have relations with my husband, I MUST go to Confession before receiving The Eucharist (which if it’s a sin…and I don’t believe so per Internal Forum…then is all this Confessing slapping Our Lord in the face?)

Anyway, that’s my dilemma. In the meantime, hubby is going to Byzantine Rite church that is in communion with Rome to try to obtain annulment (they believe if a woman has an affair, then she was not committed to sacramental marriage right from the beginning…affairs are a visible sign that the person’s heart is not committed to The Sacrament.)

So that’s my advice: try a Byzantine Eastern Rite or Ukranian Rite that is tied to Rome and The Holy Father.

Pax et Bonum.
Karen
 
joandarc2008 said:
My only advice to you is that you two live as brother and sister until this matter can be cleared up. Being in full communion with the Church will give more peace than any act of sin. It may also properly “motivate him” to take this issue as a pressing one. The state of our soul is just as important if not more important than the state of our body.
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Just an FYI on this: I contacted a Franciscan Order due to an annulment dilemma (we are married 24 years, and he is being denied as a Protestant because of no witnesses). The Franciscan Brother said that if we have been committed for that long in this loving relationship and are being road-blocked, he believes Our God is merciful to allow us as committed man and wife to continue to express our love physically.

Living with a husband of nearly 25 years, who is 64, and knowing that his annulment was improperly judged…that is a clear case for Internal Forum on my part so that I can receive the Sacraments. Each person must study the guidelines for Annulments, research, and know where they stand. If my husband’s case was simply a ‘Just Because We’re Tired Of Each Other’ divorce, I would know it was and still is a sacramental marriage. But for him, his former was not committed to a sacramental marriage, which automatically invalidates the marriage. He simply had no witnesses (his mom would be, but is deceased.)

Tribunals are men, and not infallible. And if they have made a grave error in judgment (or lack of), the Internal Forum provides well-informed consciences to have the fullness of their faith through the Sacraments.
 
Hi Karen,

Unfortunately, you are in a difficult situation. It is necessary to have TWO courts determine that your spouse’s marriage was not valid before he will be free to marry you in the Catholic church.

Unless you agree to live as brother and sister, you cannot go to Holy Communion. If you confess but do not have a desire to repent (i.e. sin no more), your confession is not valid and you are committing a grave sin.

I don’t mean to sound uncharitable. I recognize that this is a serious cross for you to bear. However, that doesn’t give us license to depend on Our Lord’s mercy simply because we don’t want to bear the crosses that He asks us to bear.

The fact that the marriage may be judged valid is the reason that the Church states, quite clearly, that no marriage plans may be made until a declaration of nullity is received.
 
Thank you for the post. I had left the church as a young person due to an emotionally abusive husband who had an affair & friends said the church would not welcome me. I was Protestant for 45 years. Met and married my husband of now 24 years there based upon Matthew 5:32 and Matthew 19:9. (His former also had an affair & deserted him). I am trying to see why those two scriptures are never applied in the Catholic annulment process. THAT is the reason my husband is not being given a judgement on the annulment. There are no witnesses for the other criteria the Tribunal looked at because they are deceased. It begins to appear that the Tribunals do not use all scripture.
 
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