Annulments/support group

[kwillson]

Hi,
I’m new to the group (thank GOD I found it and someone had the foresight to create a support group!). I filed my petition last year on January 17, 2014. My first witness rec’d her questionnaire on Jan 21, 2014.

Here’s my MAIN question: When does the “annulment clock” begin running? Is it when they first receive your petition? Or is it when they’ve received everything back from all of your witnesses?

I’m in the Archdiocese of Cincinnati and they say 18 months. If they start the clock upon receiving your paperwork, then I’m going on 13 months, right?

Also, here’s what I’ve gone through so far: Neither ex husband NOR his family have responded, so the case moved forward. I had a phone interview during which I was informed that my case had already been reviewed by the Judge(s) and they needed a little more information, which I provided. At their request, I visited a psychiatrist who submitted her paperwork to the Archdiocese in October. I haven’t heard anything since.
So, where am I in this timeline???
Any information is GREATLY appreciated.
Also, what is this Publication of the Acts thing? I’ve never heard of it. I do recall my advocate (the lady with whom I had the phone interview) asking if I wanted to review anything before it went to the Judge (I think that’s what she said?)

 

[albireo]

I was a zealous revert to the Church and was married to a Baptist woman. When I came back to the Church she converted as well. She went through the RCIA, baptized, confirmed, the whole thing. We baptized our last 3 children. I thought I was in Heaven. We got a dispensation and had our marriage blessed. Sadly, over time her faith dwindled. Within 5 years she wanted to take the kids back to her protestant church! Soon after, she said she wanted NO PART of being Catholic. She said she was DONE, and would never believe the things we do (the Sacraments), and the kids would be spared.

She later told the children that Catholics weren’t Christians! I NEVER thought that would come out of her mouth.

I REALLY wanted to raise our children Catholic, and our family to BE Catholic as she promised. She was not to be swayed. It caused a NIGHTMARE in our marriage and nearly shipwrecked my faith.

We went through a divorce, and I am remarried. My ex-wife wants nothing to do with the Catholic Church and believes she made a big mistake. She’s back attending her church and loves it (4 years now). She has insisted in raising the children protestant, and I let it go to not put the kids through any more pain.

I am slowly climbing back to my faith once again. I would like to seek an annulment if possible. Does it seem like I can go in that direction? As I see it, she deceived me in becoming Catholic, and broke her promise to be a Catholic family and raise the kids Catholic. I DID NOT have any thought that the dispensation we got was to allow me to be married to a non-Catholic - it was with the understanding she was converting.

Please let me know your thoughts on the possibility of seeking an annulment.

 

[MJJean]

Hi,
I’m new to the group (thank GOD I found it and someone had the foresight to create a support group!). I filed my petition last year on January 17, 2014. My first witness rec’d her questionnaire on Jan 21, 2014.

Here’s my MAIN question: When does the “annulment clock” begin running? Is it when they first receive your petition? Or is it when they’ve received everything back from all of your witnesses?

I’m in the Archdiocese of Cincinnati and they say 18 months. If they start the clock upon receiving your paperwork, then I’m going on 13 months, right?

Also, here’s what I’ve gone through so far: Neither ex husband NOR his family have responded, so the case moved forward. I had a phone interview during which I was informed that my case had already been reviewed by the Judge(s) and they needed a little more information, which I provided. At their request, I visited a psychiatrist who submitted her paperwork to the Archdiocese in October. I haven’t heard anything since.
So, where am I in this timeline???
Any information is GREATLY appreciated.
Also, what is this Publication of the Acts thing? I’ve never heard of it. I do recall my advocate (the lady with whom I had the phone interview) asking if I wanted to review anything before it went to the Judge (I think that’s what she said?)

My Archdiocese also says most annulments are completed within 18 months. I am at the 20 month mark now and just got my Court of First Instance decision. I still have to wait on the Court of Second Instance and no one knows how long that will take. So, I’d say not to put too much stock in the 18 months thing. Realistically, could be sooner and could be later.

If you’re concerned, call the Tribunal or have your Advocate call the Tribunal and ask them what stage of the process your case is in and if there is anything further you need to do.

I was a zealous revert to the Church and was married to a Baptist woman. When I came back to the Church she converted as well. She went through the RCIA, baptized, confirmed, the whole thing. We baptized our last 3 children. I thought I was in Heaven. We got a dispensation and had our marriage blessed. Sadly, over time her faith dwindled. Within 5 years she wanted to take the kids back to her protestant church! Soon after, she said she wanted NO PART of being Catholic. She said she was DONE, and would never believe the things we do (the Sacraments), and the kids would be spared.

She later told the children that Catholics weren’t Christians! I NEVER thought that would come out of her mouth.

I REALLY wanted to raise our children Catholic, and our family to BE Catholic as she promised. She was not to be swayed. It caused a NIGHTMARE in our marriage and nearly shipwrecked my faith.

We went through a divorce, and I am remarried. My ex-wife wants nothing to do with the Catholic Church and believes she made a big mistake. She’s back attending her church and loves it (4 years now). She has insisted in raising the children protestant, and I let it go to not put the kids through any more pain.

I am slowly climbing back to my faith once again. I would like to seek an annulment if possible. Does it seem like I can go in that direction? As I see it, she deceived me in becoming Catholic, and broke her promise to be a Catholic family and raise the kids Catholic. I DID NOT have any thought that the dispensation we got was to allow me to be married to a non-Catholic - it was with the understanding she was converting.

Please let me know your thoughts on the possibility of seeking an annulment.

There are many possible grounds for nullity. Speak to your pastor and a canon lawyer to see if you have a case.

 

[His_helpmeet]

Hi,
I’m new to the group (thank GOD I found it and someone had the foresight to create a support group!). I filed my petition last year on January 17, 2014. My first witness rec’d her questionnaire on Jan 21, 2014.

Here’s my MAIN question: When does the “annulment clock” begin running? Is it when they first receive your petition? Or is it when they’ve received everything back from all of your witnesses?

I’m in the Archdiocese of Cincinnati and they say 18 months. If they start the clock upon receiving your paperwork, then I’m going on 13 months, right?

Also, here’s what I’ve gone through so far: Neither ex husband NOR his family have responded, so the case moved forward. I had a phone interview during which I was informed that my case had already been reviewed by the Judge(s) and they needed a little more information, which I provided. At their request, I visited a psychiatrist who submitted her paperwork to the Archdiocese in October. I haven’t heard anything since.
So, where am I in this timeline???
Any information is GREATLY appreciated.
Also, what is this Publication of the Acts thing? I’ve never heard of it. I do recall my advocate (the lady with whom I had the phone interview) asking if I wanted to review anything before it went to the Judge (I think that’s what she said?)

Where I live, the “annulment clock” starts ticking when you submit all of the initial paperwork. That said, although the Church’s goal is to have a declaration of nullity completed within 18 months, specific situations peculiar to the case and the tribunal can affect that, so it’s not an absolute deadline.

The “publication of acts”, as I understand it, refers to the point at which all the evidence is in. My DH went through the nullity process for his first marriage (successfully declared invalid). Once all of the evidence was in, the tribunal issued a decree which gave him and his ex a set amount of time to come in and review the evidence if they wished. (She wanted nothing to do with the whole process and DH didn’t see the point in coming in to see the evidence.) I believe this to be the publication of acts. After this point, all you should be waiting for is the tribunal’s ruling, again, to my understanding.

 

[kwillson]

Thank you so much for your responses.
I’d call the archdiocese tribunal office/my advocate, but she advised me back in October that if I called, it would only slow things down. She said that unless I had additional information to just leave things be.
So frustrating, all this waiting! I wish there was a website specifically created for the Tribunal office to post updates to specific cases. A “Your case is at this point now. Your ESTIMATED wait time is now…”
It’s weird because most of the people from our parish who’ve had to get annulments (or wanted to) have gotten them in 9 months or less.

 

[His_helpmeet]

Thank you so much for your responses.
I’d call the archdiocese tribunal office/my advocate, but she advised me back in October that if I called, it would only slow things down. She said that unless I had additional information to just leave things be.
So frustrating, all this waiting! I wish there was a website specifically created for the Tribunal office to post updates to specific cases. A “Your case is at this point now. Your ESTIMATED wait time is now…”
It’s weird because most of the people from our parish who’ve had to get annulments (or wanted to) have gotten them in 9 months or less.

It may be that there are factors peculiar to your case that are causing a delay. Sometimes, if it’s a relatively clear-cut situation (for example, Catholic married outside the Church without dispensation, other person was already married, too closely related, etc.) a declaration of nullity can be processed very quickly. If all documentation is received quickly, as well, that can result in the case proceeding more quickly.

 

[forgetmenot]

albireo -

I believe you should speak with your Pastor or contact a canon lawyer for advice. Whatever you do, don’t go into it blindly. DanS could probably give you more guidance here on this forum as he is a canon lawyer, but ultimately 100% of the details of your marriage cannot be laid out in short form on this forum. There’s too much missing from what I’ve read thus far, and some of the statements confusing. I read that you baptized your ‘last three children’ but were there others? Were you married first before having your marriage blessed? I’m not sticking up for the ex-spouse but perhaps she felt pressure to convert for your sake?. It seems like you may have a case, but I’d leave that up to the professionals.

 

[Graycav56]

If this has been addressed earlier I apologize.

My wife and I divorced in 2013 after 24 years of marriage. I petitioned for annulment and this was granted last June. The reasons for the divorce was that she did not want children and eventually withdrew from any romantic activities or really spent much time with me. She refused counseling. There was no abuse or infidelity.

We never completely broke contact and now talk and have dinner quite often. She is much different now, much like the girl I fell in love with back in 1978. Yeah, we dated 11 years prior to marriage.

My question is, if we determine that we want to reconcile, can the annulment be vacated or reversed?

Thank you.

 

[His_helpmeet]

If this has been addressed earlier I apologize.

My wife and I divorced in 2013 after 24 years of marriage. I petitioned for annulment and this was granted last June. The reasons for the divorce was that she did not want children and eventually withdrew from any romantic activities or really spent much time with me. She refused counseling. There was no abuse or infidelity.

We never completely broke contact and now talk and have dinner quite often. She is much different now, much like the girl I fell in love with back in 1978. Yeah, we dated 11 years prior to marriage.

My question is, if we determine that we want to reconcile, can the annulment be vacated or reversed?

Thank you.

My understanding is that the declaration of nullity cannot normally be reversed. You MAY be able to appeal it to the Rota - but I believe that they rarely hear cases.

I would advise you to be EXTREMELY cautious in deciding that you wish to remarry this woman. You need to carefully consider whether you two would be able to have a valid marriage this time around - especially if the issues that caused the marriage breakdown are still present.

 

[dans0622]

…My question is, if we determine that we want to reconcile, can the annulment be vacated or reversed? …

Hello,

If the case processed through the two Courts and is now completed, I wouldn’t even bother thinking about opening it back up. That would almost certainly (I’m at least 99.99999999% certain) be a waste of everyone’s time.

As for “re-marrying”–that’s an entirely different matter…

Dan

 

[JillyAnn]

Thank you so much for your responses.
I’d call the archdiocese tribunal office/my advocate, but she advised me back in October that if I called, it would only slow things down. She said that unless I had additional information to just leave things be.
So frustrating, all this waiting! I wish there was a website specifically created for the Tribunal office to post updates to specific cases. A “Your case is at this point now. Your ESTIMATED wait time is now…”
It’s weird because most of the people from our parish who’ve had to get annulments (or wanted to) have gotten them in 9 months or less.

My annulment just had the final approval.
When I started the process my Representative told me to call every 3 months to make sure things are moving. I called every 3 months and got very accurate updates as to what to expect. Your clock doesn’t really start to tick until the Tribunal and judge grant the petition and agree to review the case.
If there are complicating circumstances, either with the case or a personal problem with people handling it, it may take a little longer.
When you call the Tribunal office you need to speak directly with your advocate. If your advocate is giving you a hard time then talk to your pastoral sponsor and maybe have him intervene.
Sending you prayers.

 

[rose2]

I am presently in an appeals process which has been upheld and so is now being sent to Rome.
One of the problems i have noticed in the process is that some of my witnesses did not give vital evidence because of the way the questions were asked. They answered what they were asked truthfully but the trail of questions never opened up the subject matter that would have added to the evidence. Although witnesses are asked if they wish to add anything they are not always sure what they can add and after a long interview they are not always thinking straight.

 

[EvelynEVF]

I just asked my advocate a couple days ago about this very issue, because I fully expect my ex to appeal to Rome. He confirmed for me that if a case is appealed to Rome, both parties will have the right to add testimony, of their own and by witnesses. It’s a long, slow haul at the Rota, but you will have the opportunity to correct the omissions that you have seen.

 

[JillyAnn]

I am presently in an appeals process which has been upheld and so is now being sent to Rome.
One of the problems i have noticed in the process is that some of my witnesses did not give vital evidence because of the way the questions were asked. They answered what they were asked truthfully but the trail of questions never opened up the subject matter that would have added to the evidence. Although witnesses are asked if they wish to add anything they are not always sure what they can add and after a long interview they are not always thinking straight.

We consulted with our witnesses when they received their questionnaires. Since we understood what information the Tribunal was looking for we were able to guide them to the type of information they needed to provide. Some of the questions are worded oddly…
My annulment took place locally and regionally. Rome was not involved, I guess b/c there has not been an appeal,

 

[forgetmenot]

rose2 & EvelynEVF I feel badly that you have/will have to appeal. I only hope you’ve exhausted all other possibilities/opportunities before you go this far. I suspect you have an advocate and they are qualified Canon lawyers. I agree with the statements made that questions are poorly worded and there is a lack of understanding of what the Judges are looking for in someone’s history. It doesn’t hurt for anyone to read as much as they can and there is a wealth of information online. I would recommend to anyone starting out in their application to read and make relevant notes. This way you would will understand what the questions are leading to. The questions, in my opinion, are often roundabout and not straightforward. By no means am I recommending being your own lawyer - we all know where that goes. But educating oneself in the process is imperative before you start on this journey. With respect to witnesses, be aware that you cannot tell them what to write, and though I’m sure that was not done by the anyone here, it’s just a reminder. Yes, it is most unfortunate when everything is not written in the first place; this is exactly what happened in my DH’s case, through no fault of his own I might add. All was finally resolved after many years of dedication, learning, and working with an Advocate/Canon lawyer which he was denied, yes denied (though you have a right to one) to have in the first place. Don’t let yourself be kept in the dark.

 

[EvelynEVF]

Forgetmenot, I have an air tight case. Witnesses who corroborate each other, strong evidence for multiple grounds, etc. My difficulty is a respondent who is fighting tooth and nail. We will pass the five year point before even getting a decision in the first instance, and I expect an appeal to Rome as second instance simply out of spite. Unfortunately, the best canon lawyer in the world can’t do a thing about that

 

[forgetmenot]

Forgetmenot, I have an air tight case. Witnesses who corroborate each other, strong evidence for multiple grounds, etc. My difficulty is a respondent who is fighting tooth and nail. We will pass the five year point before even getting a decision in the first instance, and I expect an appeal to Rome as second instance simply out of spite. Unfortunately, the best canon lawyer in the world can’t do a thing about that

If it is for spite, then my suggestion right now is to fervently pray that God will intercede and soften their heart. I prayed constantly during my DH’s process. The x started throwing mud directly at us, not the Tribunal, thankfully. I was beside myself when I thought this person would just want to create problems for the sake of doing so. Yup, you’re right, the best Canon lawyer cannot stop it, but at the least you can be assured that your application was submitted appropriately, which is why I will continue to tell people to secure proper help. I don’t know why it’s taken that long for the first decision, so hopefully that will be over soon for you. Maybe the respondent will give up knowing it’s a dead end. My best. fmn

 

[Nic1099]

Forgetmenot, I have an air tight case. Witnesses who corroborate each other, strong evidence for multiple grounds, etc. My difficulty is a respondent who is fighting tooth and nail. We will pass the five year point before even getting a decision in the first instance, and I expect an appeal to Rome as second instance simply out of spite. Unfortunately, the best canon lawyer in the world can’t do a thing about that

Sorry to hear about your situation EvelynEVF. Dealing with a spiteful respondent is extremely difficult. Five years and still no decision at First Instance?? That is a travesty. I will keep you in my prayers.

 

[rose2]

Hi LaLucia,

I have benefited so much from all of the annulment info posted here over the last two years. My boyfriend got his 2nd instance affirmation of nullity a couple days ago and I now know more about annulments than I ever thought I would LOL!

NOW, my question is about the Pauline Privilege. Do you know anything about it? I need to get this started for my own previous marriage. That marriage involved my exhusband and myself, both unbaptized for the duration of the marriage. I am now Catholic and he is not but we were both unbaptized when we were civilly divorced 6 years ago.

I will be meeting with my priest about this in the next couple of weeks but do you have any idea on estimates concerning duration? I know they are much shorter than annulments. Any experience with this??

Thank you and God bless!

My friends husband recieved a pauline privillage for his pevious marriage as they were not baptised . It cannot be decided by the local tribunal but goes straight to Rome.
It took less than a year to be granted

 

[His_helpmeet]

My friends husband recieved a pauline privillage for his pevious marriage as they were not baptised . It cannot be decided by the local tribunal but goes straight to Rome.
It took less than a year to be granted

It sounds as if they may have had a Petrine instead of a Pauline privilege. The Pauline privilege (when neither party has ever been baptized) is usually decided by the bishop. The Petrine privilege (when one party has been baptized AND that party was not primarily at fault for the marriage breaking down) is decided by the Pope.