Annulments/support group

[Convert1]

Sorry, my reply is acting weird.

Thanks MJ Jean for all your help. It really helps when you hear from someone who has been there. I am sure a lot of this is based on the nature of the case, the respondent’s participation, and the witnesses participation. I have learned that everyone’s case is different. The Mobile Tribunal claims they complete the process in a year, barring nothing unforeseen. Since it’s been 7 months and I haven’t even gotten to The Publication of the Acts, I doubt that timeline will happen.

Just curious, what is the chance of the first decision being overturned at the second instance? (Assuming the respondent doesn’t go nuts and argue the first decision) My priest said it was rather uncommon. Is this accurate?

 

[dans0622]

… Just curious, what is the chance of the first decision being overturned at the second instance? (Assuming the respondent doesn’t go nuts and argue the first decision) My priest said it was rather uncommon. Is this accurate?

Hello,

Speaking only from the perspective of statistics, it is indeed “rather uncommon.” That being said, each case should be judged on its own merits…

Dan

 

[MJJean]

Sorry, my reply is acting weird.

Thanks MJ Jean for all your help. It really helps when you hear from someone who has been there. I am sure a lot of this is based on the nature of the case, the respondent’s participation, and the witnesses participation. I have learned that everyone’s case is different. The Mobile Tribunal claims they complete the process in a year, barring nothing unforeseen. Since it’s been 7 months and I haven’t even gotten to The Publication of the Acts, I doubt that timeline will happen.

Just curious, what is the chance of the first decision being overturned at the second instance? (Assuming the respondent doesn’t go nuts and argue the first decision) My priest said it was rather uncommon. Is this accurate?

Our Archdiocese claims the entire process takes about 18 months to complete. I am at 20 months and counting with only the First Instance decision.

I now see the time frame the archdiocese gave me as more of a hopeful estimate than an actual time frame.

From what I understand, a Court of Second Instance disagreeing with a Court of First Instance is rare.

 

[MJJean]

Good morning, Dan!

I decided not to look at the Witness testimony and the written decision during the Publication of the Acts and when I had the chance before my case was sent on to Second Instance. I a now regretting that decision. When my annulment is complete, God willing, would I be able to go down to the Archdiocese and read the whole file and/or make a copy digitally or on paper for my own records?

 

[dans0622]

Good morning, Dan!

I decided not to look at the Witness testimony and the written decision during the Publication of the Acts and when I had the chance before my case was sent on to Second Instance. I a now regretting that decision. When my annulment is complete, God willing, would I be able to go down to the Archdiocese and read the whole file and/or make a copy digitally or on paper for my own records?

Hello,

You cannot read the testimony after the available time has passed. If you receive a notice from the Second Instance Court about “Publication” then you can go and read the testimony, which should include whatever was gathered in the First Instance.

If your case is simply “ratified” by the Second Instance Court however, there is no “Publication” and no chance to read the testimony.

You would never be allowed to make copies of testimony.

A person should always be able to read the Sentence. Parties are supposed to be given a copy of the Sentence, as a matter of fact. But, in the USA at least, that is seldom done. It seems most common that people are only given the chance to go to the Tribunal to read it. That being the case, if you were to call the Tribunal and say “I want to read the Sentence” you might be met with “It’s too late for that.” In response, I would say “I have a right to have a copy of the Sentence, according to c. 1615. I don’t even want a copy, I just want to read it. There’s no reason for a time limit on my being able to read it.”

You can see what happens, and how much you want to argue about it, if it comes to that. I would hope, though, that they would readily allow you to come and read it or maybe there would be a miracle and you would be sent a copy of it…

Dan

 

[returningsinner]

Well after 18 months, the tribunal returned the first affirmative decision in my case. Sadness and yet joy.

And now the second decision came down affirming the first.

It is over, the process. Big sigh of relief.

I will caution others embarking on their own journey with seeking an annulment, that it is not easy. The questionnaire dredged up a lot of memories ( some good even ), but it was reading the testimony of witnesses that stuck a dagger in my heart…

I was shaking after I read my spouse’s “diatribe”…

Hang in there , keep praying, and have faith.

 

[Convert1]

And now the second decision came down affirming the first.

It is over, the process. Big sigh of relief.

I will caution others embarking on their own journey with seeking an annulment, that it is not easy. The questionnaire dredged up a lot of memories ( some good even ), but it was reading the testimony of witnesses that stuck a dagger in my heart…

I was shaking after I read my spouse’s “diatribe”…

Hang in there , keep praying, and have faith.

God bless you. I can only imagine the weight that has been lifted, as I am 7 1/2 months into mine and the waiting is awful. I also agree that the annulment process is gut-wrenching. I honestly cannot recommend it to anyone. Again, so happy for you and your closure! Best of luck as you move forward.

 

[kwillson]

My case will move on to Washington D.C. for the Second Instance review on April 9. I feel so much peace over this entire ordeal (which, indeed, an annulment is), that I honestly don’t care what the final outcome is (okay, I really DO care, but I’m no longer sweating bullets over it!) I feel like wounds have healed. I did not opt to review any of the witness statements. I felt it was all in God’s Hands and what would happen was His Will. March 19 was when the letter I received regarding the First Instance decision and it was SUCH A RELIEF that my daughters and I could do nothing but cry. For those of you embarking on this journey, keep this in mind: PUT IT ALL IN GOD’S HANDS!!! It’s difficult for us as humans to relinquish control of ANYTHING, but this is truly a healing process and a learning opportunity. You will truly learn more about yourself. For me, the process has deepened my faith.
Praying for all those still undergoing this “trial”. It IS worth it!

 

[Convert1]

My case will move on to Washington D.C. for the Second Instance review on April 9. I feel so much peace over this entire ordeal (which, indeed, an annulment is), that I honestly don’t care what the final outcome is (okay, I really DO care, but I’m no longer sweating bullets over it!) I feel like wounds have healed. I did not opt to review any of the witness statements. I felt it was all in God’s Hands and what would happen was His Will. March 19 was when the letter I received regarding the First Instance decision and it was SUCH A RELIEF that my daughters and I could do nothing but cry. For those of you embarking on this journey, keep this in mind: PUT IT ALL IN GOD’S HANDS!!! It’s difficult for us as humans to relinquish control of ANYTHING, but this is truly a healing process and a learning opportunity. You will truly learn more about yourself. For me, the process has deepened my faith.
Praying for all those still undergoing this “trial”. It IS worth it!

I read this post this morning and I really took it to heart. I said to myself, “God, I am leaving this up to you, I just can’t do this anymore”. I am currently out of town visiting family and my 24 year old daughter is getting my mail. At 5:30pm CST she told me on the phone that I had received a letter from the Mobile Tribunal. I asked her to read it. The letter stated that the “Publication of the Acts” is available for me to review. I will call tomorrow and make an appointment to go and read the documents. The next step is to move the case to first decision.
I realize that believing in God’s plan and trusting him is such a vital part of this whole process. Prayer is powerful!

 

[Convert1]

The Tribunal has scheduled my review of the “Publication of the Acts” for Wed. April 15th. Exactly eight months from the time I submitted my petition. They told me a canon lawyer will be present in case I have any questions. Does anyone who has gone through this have any suggestions or advice? What should I be looking for? Are there any specific questions I should ask? Any help would be greatly appreciated as this makes me nervous!!!

 

[KymmD77]

Hello. I am new here and not sure if this is the proper place to ask this, but here goes…

My husband and I were both raised Catholic. We were both baptized Catholic and have that paperwork. That was as far I got as far as sacraments go. My husband has been confirmed, though we are looking for his paperwork. We have both been away from the Catholic church for almost 20 years. Originally, we wanted to marry through the Catholic Church, but were denied. We could have taken the classes, and I remember looking into them. We ended up getting married in a small chapel, by a Reverend in…. Las Vegas. That was almost 17 years ago. We have 3 beautiful children and both want to return to the Catholic Church, and have. Myself and my kids start RCIA and CCD classes this summer.
We also want our marriage to be blessed by the church, get remarried through the church.

When my husband was 15 years old, he fathered a child. He didn’t have much of a relationship with the child’s mother, though when he joined the military after high school he married her so that his son would receive the benefits. He was stationed in Japan for the entire marriage. When he did come home, he tried to give the marriage a shot, but his “wife” had a boyfriend and they ended up divorcing.

This was all prior to our meeting each other. We married when his son, Chris, was about 9 years old. We always treated him as part of the family and had 3 boys of our own. We grew apart, somewhat, during his teenage years and unfortunately, Chris, his son, passed away a couple years ago at the age of 22.

When I started looking into regularizing our marriage through the church, I found out we would have to get an annulment of his first marriage. I had thought that was only done for Catholic marriages, theirs was a Civil marriage in court.
We truly want to rejoin the Catholic church and complete ALL of the sacraments and raise our children as Catholics.
What is the annulment process like in this type of situation? What should we expect?

 

[dans0622]

… When my husband was 15 years old, he fathered a child. He didn’t have much of a relationship with the child’s mother, though when he joined the military after high school he married her so that his son would receive the benefits. …

When I started looking into regularizing our marriage through the church, I found out we would have to get an annulment of his first marriage. I had thought that was only done for Catholic marriages, theirs was a Civil marriage in court.
We truly want to rejoin the Catholic church and complete ALL of the sacraments and raise our children as Catholics.
What is the annulment process like in this type of situation? What should we expect?

Hello,

If it is the case that he was Catholic at the time of that civil marriage, then the Catholic Church would not require “an annulment” for that union, before he could marry you. The Church would require some kind of process which would show that he is free to marry, which means that it will show that he was Catholic but did not marry “in the Church.” The specifics on what this process looks like and who directs it depends on where you are. But, it should always and everywhere be a relatively simple matter of providing documents which establish those two facts.

You should feel free to talk with the local pastor and/or tribunal about this.

Dan

 

[KymmD77]

Hello,

If it is the case that he was Catholic at the time of that civil marriage, then the Catholic Church would not require “an annulment” for that union, before he could marry you. The Church would require some kind of process which would show that he is free to marry, which means that it will show that he was Catholic but did not marry “in the Church.” The specifics on what this process looks like and who directs it depends on where you are. But, it should always and everywhere be a relatively simple matter of providing documents which establish those two facts.

You should feel free to talk with the local pastor and/or tribunal about this.

Dan

Thank you for your answer! I intend to speak with our priest soon.
What you said has me curious now, he was Catholic, as he always been Catholic, at the time, though his first wife, married via civil ceremony was not. Why does it make a difference if he was Catholic at the time of the marriage? I’m curious, as I have never heard this before.

 

[His_helpmeet]

Thank you for your answer! I intend to speak with our priest soon.
What you said has me curious now, he was Catholic, as he always been Catholic, at the time, though his first wife, married via civil ceremony was not. Why does it make a difference if he was Catholic at the time of the marriage? I’m curious, as I have never heard this before.

Catholics are bound by the divine positive law of the Church, which requires that they be married in the Catholic Church, or, if the marriage is between a non-Catholic and a Catholic, a dispensation (permission) may be granted for a wedding outside the Church. If a Catholic attempts to marry outside the Church without a dispensation, the marriage is de facto invalid.

If they were indeed married via civil ceremony AND no dispensation was given, the marriage is considered automatically invalid and there’s only a very short procedure to go through. My understanding is that essentially the parish priest just fills out the paperwork (he would also need to provide copies of his Baptism certificate and the divorce certificate, and possibly also a copy of the registration of marriage - this is required in our area if your marriage was never celebrated in the Church, as the Church has no record of it) and submits it. No formal trial is required as this can be proven “on paper”. If a dispensation WAS given, a formal nullity trial is required.

Disclaimer: I am not a canon lawyer. Dan, who has answered your questions previously, IS a canon lawyer and he will be able to advise you if anything I’ve said here is incorrect or if you have more complicated questions. My DH has been through the nullity process; this is why I’m here - to provide support and information to those currently going through the process or who have spouses going through the process.

 

[KymmD77]

Catholics are bound by the divine positive law of the Church, which requires that they be married in the Catholic Church, or, if the marriage is between a non-Catholic and a Catholic, a dispensation (permission) may be granted for a wedding outside the Church. If a Catholic attempts to marry outside the Church without a dispensation, the marriage is de facto invalid.

If they were indeed married via civil ceremony AND no dispensation was given, the marriage is considered automatically invalid and there’s only a very short procedure to go through. My understanding is that essentially the parish priest just fills out the paperwork (he would also need to provide copies of his Baptism certificate and the divorce certificate, and possibly also a copy of the registration of marriage - this is required in our area if your marriage was never celebrated in the Church, as the Church has no record of it) and submits it. No formal trial is required as this can be proven “on paper”. If a dispensation WAS given, a formal nullity trial is required.

Disclaimer: I am not a canon lawyer. Dan, who has answered your questions previously, IS a canon lawyer and he will be able to advise you if anything I’ve said here is incorrect or if you have more complicated questions. My DH has been through the nullity process; this is why I’m here - to provide support and information to those currently going through the process or who have spouses going through the process.

Thank you! I certainly hope it turns out to be so easy as this. He never asked permission form the church for their civil ceremony, as I stated it was a legal act with a woman whom he had no “real” relationship so that she and his son could receive his military benefits. When he finished his military duty, no relationship developed and they divorced, with agreements regarding child support, custody and care of their son, who is now passed on to Heaven, may he rest in peace.

That marriage/divorce was almost 20 years ago. My husband and I have been been married almost 17 years now, remain very much in love, and are returning to the Catholic Church, and want our union blessed by the Catholic Church very much.

 

[MJJean]

I came home from grocery shopping and in the mailbox was my Decree of Nullity!

I cannot express the happiness and relief I feel. :dancing:

There is a stipulation. It’s listed as Monitum and the paperwork says that the priest or deacon who is preparing me for marriage/convalidation must contact the Tribunal.

Does anyone know anything about what a Monitum is and if it will delay my convalidation and Confirmation very long?

 

[dans0622]

…

Does anyone know anything about what a Monitum is and if it will delay my convalidation and Confirmation very long?

Hello,

The issue of the *monitum *is an interesting one. Canon lawyers have a bit of variety in how they understand it and how it fits into the law…or doesn’t fit.

That conversation being unfit for this forum, I will only say that a *monitum *is a “warning.” The warning is directed toward whomever would prepare you for marriage in the Church. The basic idea is that because you were in this prior, attempted marriage, and it was invalid due to these reasons (whatever they were), the priest needs to be aware of those reasons and try to make sure that those reasons are no longer operative. The precise requirements or contents of the *monitum *(i.e., what the preparing priest is supposed to do before witnessing your marriage) vary from case to case.

Due to this variability, I won’t hazard a guess regarding the delay that might be caused by it. You will just have to ask the preparing priest what you, or he, needs to do.

Dan

 

[MJJean]

Hello,

The issue of the *monitum *is an interesting one. Canon lawyers have a bit of variety in how they understand it and how it fits into the law…or doesn’t fit.

That conversation being unfit for this forum, I will only say that a *monitum *is a “warning.” The warning is directed toward whomever would prepare you for marriage in the Church. The basic idea is that because you were in this prior, attempted marriage, and it was invalid due to these reasons (whatever they were), the priest needs to be aware of those reasons and try to make sure that those reasons are no longer operative. The precise requirements or contents of the *monitum *(i.e., what the preparing priest is supposed to do before witnessing your marriage) vary from case to case.

Due to this variability, I won’t hazard a guess regarding the delay that might be caused by it. You will just have to ask the preparing priest what you, or he, needs to do.

Dan

Shortly after your reply I spoke with the Tribunal. I was told that the concern is my understanding of marriage as taught by the Church. Our pastor needs to be certain I fully understand marriage as taught by the Church before we can convalidate.

When I originally spoke to him, he also acted as Advocate, I explained the differences between my understanding 20 years ago and my understanding now. When I last spoke with him, shortly after the first decision, I asked about convalidation and marriage prep. He said that, considering the situation, we would likely meet once or twice and then proceed with the ceremony. So, I have hope that this won’t delay us very long at all.

 

[Convert1]

I came home from grocery shopping and in the mailbox was my Decree of Nullity!

I cannot express the happiness and relief I feel. :dancing:

There is a stipulation. It’s listed as Monitum and the paperwork says that the priest or deacon who is preparing me for marriage/convalidation must contact the Tribunal.

Does anyone know anything about what a Monitum is and if it will delay my convalidation and Confirmation very long?

Congratulations, MJJean! That’s great news. Good for you!

I read the “Publication of the Acts”. No real news in any of the statements that I didn’t already know. My case is going to First Decision. Fingers crossed.

 

[kwillson]

A monitum is a warning of some type. You’ll have to ask your priest probably to find out what the specifics are.

Has anyone ever NOT gotten a letter from the second instance court letting you know they’ve received your paperwork? Mine was mailed from Archdiocese of Cincinnati to Washington D.C. on April 9 and it’s been 13 days. I thought I’d hear from them by now that they rec’d it, but no word yet.