Annulments vs Divorce

[happilycatholic]

?? I think you misunderstood “a final dissolution of the subject marriage” cannot occur if the couple is still civilly married or still living together.

Right, but your statement made it seem you were saying a person could petition for an annulment before the divorce, such as at the time of separation. This is not possible. I apologize if I misunderstood you.

~HC

 

[cecilia97]

The only way to settle this is to see what percentage of annulments are being granted. If this system of tribunal experts really is working, I would expect to see no more than 1% in our modern time period.

K

Don’t assume that all divorced Catholics go on to make a petition for nullity. Many do not.

Also, don’t assume that every petition for nullity gets in front of a Tribunal…many weak cases are weeded out at the parish level before they are ever submitted. For example: when I filed for nullity, my parish priest became my “sponsor” for the case only after he carefully reviewed my petition. If he had felt my petition had a poor chance of success, he had the option of stopping it right there.

 

[happilycatholic]

1ke,

I think it’s fair to say if these special “tribunals of canon lawyers” are handing out annulments to a majority of applicants there is something very wrong.

I suppose the Church does not publish the percentage of applicants who receive annulments since this would be potentially embarrarssing.

It is problematic if a Church says it doesn’t grant divorce, but then turns around granting annulments to people that most likely had legitimate marriages. It’s not like we are living in the middle ages when people really may have had invalid marriages: incest, arranged marriages against wishes of the women etc… I fear the tribunal is making a mockery of the original purpose of “annulments” by easily granting them to couples who may now get them because they can be found to have “not been totally mentaly prepared” for marriage. C’mon, who is!? Again percentages would tell us if this is going on to the extent I suspect… If so the Church should cease granting annulments except under the most extreme extenuating circumstances, or just grant divorce.

The only way to settle this is to see what percentage of annulments are being granted. If this system of tribunal experts really is working, I would expect to see no more than 1% in our modern time period.

K

I’m sorry, but why would ANY number of annulments be embarrassing to the Church? Annulments are a sign of human sin/error, not Church sin/error.

This ideal that has been imprinted on folks that the Church ‘causes’ annulments is rediculous and needs to cease.

This is like saying it’s the Church’s fault that more people don’t become Baptized into the Church!

How in the world can we hold the Church responsible (necessarily) for the number of annulments being given?

First of all, any annulment that is not rightfully given has a human behind it that has committed a GRAVE SIN. Since the whole purpose behind annulment is to make sure the Church DOESN’T annul valid marriages.

Furthermore, how can we presume to know the hearts of men??? This is the Church’s commission in this instance, not ours. How can we arrive at the percentage of those who enter into marriage contrary to the wishes of the Holy Spirit since we cannot know the wishes of the Holy Spirit? We DON’T KNOW WHOSE MARRIAGES ARE ORDAINED BY GOD AND WHOSE ARE NOT.

It is presumptuous to just so readily believe the rhetoric that is being perpetuated by non-catholics and some traditional catholics today. *and those who are mad at the Church because they can’t get annulments.

We should trust in our Church and the Holy Father and submit to the authority of the Church.

~HC

 

[sidbrown]

The conclusion that any marriage can be annuled is the invalid one.

~HC

Not according to the testimonial given by joseph in post #17.

 

[happilycatholic]

Not according to the testimonial given by joseph in post #17.

I understand, but are we speaking of one priest who may be destined for hell or are we speaking of an entire Church making the same mistakes this priest may or may not be making? First we have to assume that the priest was actually doing such a thing and not attempting to comfort the couple. Also a sin, possibly a lie. Who knows.

I have never, nor will I ever claim that individuals in the Church will not err or sin, it happens. Those folks, if they indeed are committing the sin of severing a marriage ordained by God, will answer for their own sins.

Even IF several priests do the same thing, it doesn’t mean that we can make a blanket statement about annulments to the extent they have been made here. I do not believe that this is common practice as has been suggested.

The whole of the Church cannot be judged on the acts of one Religious. I feel sorry for Joseph and if that were said to me by a priest I would have RUN! Because Joseph may have had a hand in the sin of annulling a valid marriage, his own.

Not only that, but Joseph should have reported the priest’s comments to the Tribunal and/or the Bishop. I would have felt inclined to do so because marriages are at risk and so is the priest’s soul. As I said, that would have been a clear indication that my petition was in danger and therefor my sacramental life in the Church. This is the very thing that perpetuates sin.

But, this does not reflect on the Church as a whole. It reflects on that priest and those involved who are aware of the sin (if true).

~HC

 

[davidv]

Divorce is not a sin. A *divorced catholic is fully permitted to receive communion.

The sin is remarriage IF the previous marriage was valid.

Divorce is definitely frowned upon in the Church, but NOT a sin.

~HC

From the CCC:
**2384 ***Divorce *is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign.

Based on this there would be very few circumstances where the culpability for divorce would be reduce to zero. Therefore it would be a sin in nearly all cases.

 

[sidbrown]

Therefore it would be a sin in nearly all cases.

Do you think it is OK for a marriage tribunal to require divorce, even before it looks at the case for annulment?

 

[davidv]

Do you think it is OK for a marriage tribunal to require divorce, even before it looks at the case for annulment?

If the tribunal is going to find that the marriage is invalid, they cannot let the couple live a lie and remain civily married. So, not only is it OK, it is manditory.

 

[sidbrown]

If the tribunal is going to find that the marriage is invalid, they cannot let the couple live a lie and remain civily married. So, not only is it OK, it is manditory.

But they require the divorce before the hearing.

 

[davidv]

But they require the divorce before the hearing.

Under a very well founded assumption that the couple believes they contracted an invalid marriage and they are not pursuing making it valid. If the couple were trying to resolve the invalidity they would not have presented their case to the tribunal. Instead, they would be discussing corrective actions with their parish priest.

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother sidbrown,

But they require the divorce before the hearing.

There are two reasons that a showing of civil divorce is necessary.

(1) Before a decree of nullity is given, the agreement of both parties must be evident. The plainest and most practical way for this to occur is if the parties had a civil divorce, which already requires the agreement of both parties. It is really a protection for one or the other of the parties. It is, I suspect, for this reason that Joseph Kennedy’s annulment was overturned by the Vatican. Another poster told a story earlier of someone she know who had an annulment and claimed that person “couldn’t do anything about it.” That story must be false.

(2) If there are children involved, the Church must be convinced that they will be provided for, and the civil divorce proceedings do just that.

Hope that helps.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Tryin2BCatholic]

Help!

I am divorced and have signed up for an annulment workshop after much pain and heartache. My x (who was my high-school sweetheart and best friend for half of my life) is now “remarried” and pregnant with the man with whom she commited adultery. I am still trying to understand God’s will for those in my situation.

I plan on talking to a priest soon, but in the meantime, can someone please help me understand? Correct me if I am wrong, but Catholic teaching tells me that I am still married in the eyes of God, and if the annulment is declared, then I was never married in the eyes of God.???

Also, if the annulment is not declared, then am I expected to remain celibate for life (I am 31 now, so that could be a while). I have a hard time believing that God wants that for me. The last 2.5 years have been nothing short of miserable.

Thanks in advance.

 

[mardukm]

Help!

I am divorced and have signed up for an annulment workshop after much pain and heartache. My x (who was my high-school sweetheart and best friend for half of my life) is now “remarried” and pregnant with the man with whom she commited adultery. I am still trying to understand God’s will for those in my situation.

I plan on talking to a priest soon, but in the meantime, can someone please help me understand? Correct me if I am wrong, but Catholic teaching tells me that I am still married in the eyes of God, and if the annulment is declared, then I was never married in the eyes of God.???

Not exactly. In all cases of annulment, the Church PRESUMES the marriage is valid, to protect the sanctity of the Sacrament if indeed it was. After due investigation, if the marriage contract turned out to be defective in some way, then the Church will grant a decree of nullity - that there was never a marriage in the first place. Contrary to popular and polemic belief, there are really only two conditions for a marriage to be declared invalid - (1) improper intent; (2) improper form. The investigations are intended to uncover the exigencies which will lead to the declaration of the existence of one or both of those conditions.

Here are some preliminary questions for you to ponder:
Was your spouse a baptized Christian? If she was not, then it is possible you can get a dispensation according to the Pauline privilege.

Was your wife a Catholic? If she was not and you did not get a dispensation from the impediment of cult, that may be grounds for an annulment.

Did you understand that marriage means you are to be open to life? If you and your spouse went into the marriage deciding not to have children, that may be grounds for an annulment.

Were you married in the Church? Without proper dispensation, that may be grounds for an annulment.

I’m not a canon lawyer, so don’t take my word for granted.

Also, if the annulment is not declared, then am I expected to remain celibate for life (I am 31 now, so that could be a while). I have a hard time believing that God wants that for me. The last 2.5 years have been nothing short of miserable.

I truly feel for you, but for now, the practice of the Catholic Church states you must. My prayers are with you. For now, don’t let the matter possess you, and try your best to be receptive to the Grace of God in your life.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[happilycatholic]

From the CCC:
**2384 ***Divorce *is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign.

Based on this there would be very few circumstances where the culpability for divorce would be reduce to zero. Therefore it would be a sin in nearly all cases.

If you interpret this in that way, then a catholic who has been divorced would not be able to receive Communion because that person would be in a perpetual state of sin.

It says it is a grave offense. It stops short of calling it a sin.

**I’m editing this for clarity but leaving my intial response.

The Catechism is clearly speaking of sacremental marriages as it states this. And Canon No. 2383 notes this: If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense. So the Church does not clearly and absolutely define divorce as a sin. The Catechism also allows for innocent victims (unwilling participants) in divorce.

While it is a risk (one that persons married in the Church should NEVER take), it is not a sin because the marriage may or may not be valid. I might note that I know of a few married in the Church who are still permitted to receive Communion.

A person in perpetual sin could not possibly receive Communion without committing yet another sin. So it is not a cut and dry situation. It is probably best to say it is a case-by-case thing that should be handled by speaking to a priest.

~Tonya

 

[davidv]

Divorce is not a sin and this does not say divorce is a sin. If you interpret this in that way, then a catholic who has been divorced would not be able to receive Communion because that person would be in a perpetual state of sin.

It says it is a grave offense. It stops short of calling it a sin.

I’m sorry but you are incorrect.

A person in perpetual sin could not possibly receive Communion without committing yet another sin.

~Tonya

Only mortal sin keeps one from communion.

Unless one is completely ignorant of Church teaching on divorce or is coerced into getting one, divorce is at least a venial sin.

 

[happilycatholic]

Only mortal sin keeps one from communion.

Unless one is completely ignorant of Church teaching on divorce or is coerced into getting one, divorce is at least a venial sin.

Exactly! This would be non-catholics who have joined the Church after a divorce occurred

 

[Monte1945]

Questions and Answers about the Catholic Annulment Process
Q. Who Needs An Annulment in the Catholic Church? (Civil annulments are handled by the civil courts.)

A. Anyone (Catholic or Non-Catholic) who was previously married and who wants to remarry in the Catholic church should discuss the circumstances of their former marriage with a priest to determine if an annulment or nullification of the previous marriage is necessary.

Q. What is the difference between a civil divorce or civil annulment and a Catholic Church annulment?

A. Anyone who marries in the United States must obtain a civil license to legally contract the marriage and cohabitate with all the privileges the law provides. In most cases, the civil divorce states that the above did take place, but the contract is severed and each party is free under the law to remarry. The legitimacy of children is not affected.

The Church views marriage as a covenant for life that cannot be severed. However, some marriages are entered into without the necessary maturity or full knowledge and ability to keep such a permanent commitment, or without full free will because of external pressures. Therefore, a person has the right to ask the Church to examine a previous marriage to see if it was less than what the church views as a valid marriage, a freely chosen commitment between two mature, knowledgeable and capable adults to enter a covenant of love, for life, with priority to spouse and children.

A Catholic annulment is a declaration from a diocesan Tribunal that the marriage bond was less than such a covenant for life because it was lacking something necessary from the very beginning. One or both parties may have entered the marriage with good will, but lacked the openness, honesty, maturity, fully free choice, right motivation, emotional stability, or capacity to establish a community of life and love with another person. If an annulment is granted, then both parties are free to remarry in the Church, however, for pastoral reasons, counseling may be required prior to marriage in order to prevent the parties involved from repeating mistakes. The legitimacy of the children is NOT affected in any way. There was an assumption of marriage at the time; therefore the standing of children is never affected by an annulment.

Divorce and Remarriage in the Catholic Church
Q. I’m a divorced Catholic; can I be married in the Catholic church? Do I need a Christian marriage annulment? What are the annulment laws?

A. Although the answer depends on the specifics of your situation, if you are Catholic, or plan to marry in a Catholic church, you likely will need to have your first marriage declared null. Depending on where you were married and whether you and/or your ex-spouse were baptized, the matter might be resolved rather simply, or it might take more examination and work.

As you prepare for your upcoming second wedding, you have probably given a great deal of thought to the sacredness of marriage. It is that sacredness that the Church’s marriage policy strives to protect. But while the Church believes that a valid marriage cannot be dissolved except through death, it also recognizes that what appears to be a valid marriage is not always so.

The Roman Catholic Church considers a marriage valid when:

It is celebrated in a ceremony according to Church law;
Both parties are free to marry each other;
Each partner intends, from the beginning of the marriage, to accept God’s plan for married life as taught by the Church;
Each partner has the physical and psychological ability to live out the consent and commitment initially given to the marriage.

If any of these requirements are lacking from the beginning of the marriage, then the Tribunal, acting as the bishop’s representative, can declare that marriage invalid.

Please note that children of an annulled marriage are still considered legitimate! A civil marriage did exist and the assumption of a Catholic marriage did exist. The marriage was consummated in good will; therefore children of the marriage always remain legitimate, even if at a later time that marriage is annulled.

We urge you to contact your pastor or a Church pastoral minister and investigate whether your previous marriage might be declared null. You should also educate yourself about the annulment process, annulment law and policies.

part one of two parts

 

[Monte1945]

Part two

Q. What are the grounds for annulment in the Catholic Church?
Most annulments are based on canon 1095, psychological reasons. These include a wide range of factors. Some of them may be misrepresentation or fraud (concealing the truth about capacity or desire to have children for example, or about an preexisting marriage, drug addiction, felony convictions, sexual preference or having reached the age of consent)
Refusal or inability to consummate the marriage (inability or refusal to have sex)
Bigamy, incest (being married to someone else, or close relatives)
Duress (being forced or coerced into marriage against one’s will or serious external pressure, for example a pregnancy)
Mental incapacity (considered unable to understand the nature and expectations of marriage)
Lack of knowledge or understanding of the full implications of marriage as a life-long commitment in faithfulness and love, with priority to spouse and children.
Psychological inability to live the marriage commitment as described above.
Illegal “Form of Marriage” (ceremony was not performed according to Catholic canon law)
One/both partners was under the influence of drugs, or addicted to a chemical substance.
Q. When should I apply for the annulment?

A. You can only apply after your divorce is final. Go to a parish near you and ask for the application form. A priest, deacon or pastoral staff person will assist you with the process. You do not need to be a member of the parish in order to apply for an annulment. However, you should apply within the diocese where you live, or where you were married.

Q. Can I still attend mass & receive communion if I’m divorced or wasn’t remarried in the church?

A. Every baptized Catholic —no matter what their situation or standing—is always free to attend Mass. Please don’t let questions of divorce or marital validity interfere with your regular attendance. If you are divorced and have not remarried, you may receive the Eucharist (if you are not burdened by a grave sin that requires sacramental Confession). The same applies for other sacraments. If you have remarried, you would need to have your current marriage convalidated before receiving Communion, which may involve having your first marriage declared null. If you are still in your first marriage but it took place outside the Church, should have it convalidated. Your pastor or another parish staff member can help you begin this process; please contact your parish office for more information.

Q. Can I still be a part of the Church if I am remarried without a declaration of nullity?

A. You are still a member of the Catholic faith community. You can register in your parish and raise your children Catholic. However, the choice to remarry without having received a declaration of nullity concerning one’s prior marital bond sets a person apart from the Church with regard to full sacramental participation. One cannot receive Holy Communion when one’s lifestyle is not in communion with the teachings of the Catholic faith. Still, there is grace to be gained through participation in Sunday worship, particularly in the nourishment that comes from God’s Word, the Homily, the Church’s devotional piety, coty fellowship, and other aspects of Catholic life.

Q. I am planning on re-marring my ex, we were married in a Catholic Church, how do we go about having a Christian remarriage?

A. We assume from your question that you did not receive an annulment in the Church, but only sought a civil divorce. Since the Church does not recognize the effect of civil divorce, you are still sacramentally married in the eyes of the Church . Therefore, you do not need to do anything with the Church, though civilly you must be remarried; the Church would view this period merely as a separation. However, you may want to discuss the matter with your parish priest and consider having a renewal of your vows within the Church after the civil ceremony.

Q. Does the length of the marriage count in annulments?

A. The length of the marriage does not influence the decision in any way. The only facts considered are factors that were present at the time when the vows were exchanged.

Q. Do ex-spouses have to be contacted?
Ex-spouses are contacted to protect their rights, but they do not need to consent. They are given the opportunity for (name removed by moderator)ut during the process. The final decision however is always based on an objective evaluation of the the facts at the time of the vows. Later events merely illustrate behavior patters that were already present in a person at the time of the marriage vows. The Tribunal understands that the very fact that an ex-spouse tries to prevent an annulment may spring from the same negative behavior patterns that destroyed the marriage, therefore no attempts need to be made by the applicant to get the ex-spouse to consent. Since an annulment also gives the ex-spouse the right to remarry in a Catholic Church, he or she will receive a copy of the annulment decree

 

[cecilia97]

Help!

I am divorced and have signed up for an annulment workshop after much pain and heartache. My x (who was my high-school sweetheart and best friend for half of my life) is now “remarried” and pregnant with the man with whom she commited adultery. I am still trying to understand God’s will for those in my situation.

I plan on talking to a priest soon, but in the meantime, can someone please help me understand? Correct me if I am wrong, but Catholic teaching tells me that I am still married in the eyes of God, and if the annulment is declared, then I was never married in the eyes of God.???

Also, if the annulment is not declared, then am I expected to remain celibate for life (I am 31 now, so that could be a while). I have a hard time believing that God wants that for me. The last 2.5 years have been nothing short of miserable.

Thanks in advance.

Dear Tryin2BCatholic,

Others have given you the technical advice. I want to assure you that it’s going to be OK. I was once in a very similar situation. Yes, God has a plan. Maybe your divorce was part of it and maybe not…sin causes all of us to do things outside divine providence. But you CAN get through this.

I am 33. Three years ago, I divorced my college sweetheart; we had been married for a little over 4 years. I had no plans to remarry, but I wanted to get any nullity worries over with while I was already hurting, so I petitioned for nullity about 4 months after my divorce was final.

I also struggled with the fear of having to remain single for the rest of my life if my former marriage was found to be valid. The whole situation forced me to trust God and whatever the outcome would be…something I really needed to learn. I eventually determined to abide by the final decision no matter what…because our Lord’s Church and the Holy Eucharist are gifts above all other things on earth and I cannot leave them

The process was frustrating, painful, and healing all at once. You might get scared and be tempted to lose hope. Just meet with your priest and mention all the concerns you have.

Thanks be to God, I have my decree of nullity now. And, ironically, I have less and less desire to ever marry. My divorce has turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me…really! I’m healthier, closer to my family, love my work and volunteer activities, and my new parish has accepted me with open arms. Most of all, I have my faith back and the constant consolation of the Eucharist.

You’ll be in my prayers…

 

[Monte1945]

I think most of the thoughts of this subject have been spoken and most of them
quite well. but there is one aspect that seems to me to not have been addressed
or at least reconized… and that is the persons involved in the procedures…

Of course there are rules which the church uses as to how to procede in these annulment
requests… but there is also the man or woman… and from my past experience in this
area I was the one who decided to NOT procede with the annulment that the church
kind of stated that it looked good for me from my that first interview.

I felt I was called by God to become a Baptist minister when I was twenty years old.
I began my studies in one of the largest seminaries in Kentucky. During my years of
study I met a woman, we courted and married in a Baptist church officiated by my
Uncle from my fathers side… the service was joint conducted with her Uncle from her
mother’s side… They were both Baptist ministers… My Uncle read my vows, Her uncle
read her vows… and were married within the Baptist christian faith…

In my fourth and final year of school… and as we were studying the scriptures from within
their original languages… I was struck with the Sixth Chapter of John’s gospel.
The Bread And Wine into the body and blood of Jesus. “actually” But couldn’t get any answers for them within the seminary.

I was ordained and began my nine years of being a minister… and I did very well
indeed… many were converted and joined various church where I preached at.
I was given space in four newspapers where I wrote articles of religion. My name
was well known in four or five states in the deepest part of Appalachia… Where
christians are the majority…

Within these years, two daughters were born to my christian wife and I.

I went duck hunting with a friend… and he introducted me to a young man
who was smiling and smoking a pipe… and this man was that counties
Catholic Priest… Fr. Burton. he was about two years older than I.
We were standing in this dug out hole, shivering and freezing if you want to know the
whole truth… and we began to talk… I didn’t know that much about the catholic faith
and in our conversation I asked him what did he think of that Bread and Wine scripture
and he explained to me of the Sacraments… and it floored me… I went home
and I could not get that out of my mind. there was a chruch which actually addressed that statement of Jesus…

Well, to make a long story short… I gravitated towards Fr. Burton often. .and we had
conversations upon conversations… as friends at first mind you… just as someone to talk
the bible with… and after awhile… I felt that I needed to be part of the catholic church.

I joined, gave up my ministry… my wife was subject to me, but she had a very difficult time with this. As she was from a gifted singing family who only sang gospel songs and were cutting albums then and went on to CD’s. She played the piano in our churchs and was very involved and felt that singing the gospel was her “vocation” from god.

I was Baptised in the Catholic church and requested my wife to come and have our marriage blessed by the church… it was not a wedding but it was a point in time where
we made a vow to God under Fr. Burton’s blessing… it was a vow to God for me.

My wife tired but she could not reconsile to my new faith…and within a few years
she wanted a divorce because of this religious split between us. She also promised
God that she would allow our daughters to attend the catholic church… and I promised she could take them to her church… but after awhile, she could not tolerate that either.

So she left and we were seperated for five years and then we divorced…

That was over thirty years ago… Neither of us, had committed adultry. She has never dated or remarried as according to her faith she believes as the Catholic church does.
There can not be any divorce unless there is fornification from me.

Neither of us, have committed fornification I have not remarried and neither has she.

I retired from work… a few years ago… and I felt that I might want to finish out my life
by entering into the Monastery… to pray for the lost of the world…
I went to a few Monasteries for retreats… and was accepted by three of them if I wanted
to enter… I felt I did… But I found out that in order for me to take Holy orders I have to have
my marriage annuled… I went to the local priest here, who does that kind of function.
Fr. Gerry… A wonderful man… and we talked for about three hours…

I was told, that I could more than likely get an annulment… but it would take two to three years… this is not done fast… but I decided not to do it, as the way he was talking about
how the church feels about it, it is like a marriage was not right or bad in some way.
But my marriage was not bad, nor was/is my exwife… she is a very decent God fearing woman and a very good christian. and there is no way I can file papers in the church to
say that our marriage was bad or that she was not a good person…

my whole point is, that whether you are able to get an annulment legally from the church there is also each person involved and it is up to them to decide on this… There are some of us who do not use the church for our personal benefit but see the church as a means
to help us to be who the church feels we should be… and I just wanted to get this side of this issue in on your posts…

Oh, I can go to either of the Monasteries for a month at a time and join in with the other monks and live that life with them. I can do that five or six times a year… and in different ones … so I can go live my monastic call and be within the Grace of the Sacraments too.
part time… and part time is a blessing too… I will always be a novice but I will be there.

Isn’t God wonderful! He always makes a way if you lean on Him totally…