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heartaflame
Guest
Yeah, you’re right, I see your point. Thanks, because I never realized that. It IS a part of her life now. So, the solution on my part is…to love her, support her, and to pray, correct?
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CatholicSam
Guest
If the identity issue is a real problem, maybe helping her to find a different identity will help. Who knows, it’s just a thought I just had. However, if you act annoyed at her, she might take it as jealousy which could encourage her. Gosh, I’m including you and your sister in my Rosary intentions today!
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LSK
Guest
PLEASE read Space Cadet’s post. The disease of Anorexia is similar to Alcoholism in that the level of control one exhibits over one’s behavior can be part of the problem and not indicative of the level of the illness.
The problem is not the control…it is the lack of power that is your sister’s dilemna. She cannot see herself as others see her, and I absolutely guarantee you she is not doing this to you or her family. In fact, it is probably tough for you to hear this but you are not figuring into this at all. She loves you and does not want to hurt you or anyone - she is as puzzled by her behavior as you are and is trying to regain her power.
What Space Cadet is saying is important. The use of the 12 Steps emphasizes that the will power, in terms of the disease itself, is valueless. It becomes important only when it is aligned with the will of one’s Higher Power and focused on treatment. MOST people never make this connection. It sounds so easy to do.
Pick something you do that you cannot seem to master. It can be anything. Anything at all. Now just stop. And stop forever. Right now. Don’t ever do it again. Ever. And I don’t mean just stop for a year or 5 years…I mean EVER EVER EVER and EVER…
That’s why for people with these types of illnesses, Alcoholism, Drug Addiction, Anorexia etc, we deal with ‘one day at a time’. Most ‘normal’ people cannot promise they will never do anything ever again…but because our illnesses manifest in such a destructive way that affects the entire family we are expected to do what you yourself cannot do.
I would urge you to look into a program such as Al-Anon or the appropriate 12 Step program available for the family and loved ones of Anorexics and/or Bulimics.
You are in my prayers.
The problem is not the control…it is the lack of power that is your sister’s dilemna. She cannot see herself as others see her, and I absolutely guarantee you she is not doing this to you or her family. In fact, it is probably tough for you to hear this but you are not figuring into this at all. She loves you and does not want to hurt you or anyone - she is as puzzled by her behavior as you are and is trying to regain her power.
What Space Cadet is saying is important. The use of the 12 Steps emphasizes that the will power, in terms of the disease itself, is valueless. It becomes important only when it is aligned with the will of one’s Higher Power and focused on treatment. MOST people never make this connection. It sounds so easy to do.
Pick something you do that you cannot seem to master. It can be anything. Anything at all. Now just stop. And stop forever. Right now. Don’t ever do it again. Ever. And I don’t mean just stop for a year or 5 years…I mean EVER EVER EVER and EVER…
That’s why for people with these types of illnesses, Alcoholism, Drug Addiction, Anorexia etc, we deal with ‘one day at a time’. Most ‘normal’ people cannot promise they will never do anything ever again…but because our illnesses manifest in such a destructive way that affects the entire family we are expected to do what you yourself cannot do.
I would urge you to look into a program such as Al-Anon or the appropriate 12 Step program available for the family and loved ones of Anorexics and/or Bulimics.
You are in my prayers.
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Zooey
Guest
Anorexics & bulimiics have a disease. They are not “doing this to themselves”; the disease is doing this to them.
The problem is that it looks like they are in control…But what actually happens is that you feel that this is the only thing in life that you can control! The rest of your life is outside of your ability to handle, but you feel that at least you can decide what goes into your own mouth.
It is also important to realize the degree of depression & self-loathing that exist in this condition. Often, anorexics stop eating because of feeling that we don’t deserve to eat…That you are such a horrible person that you have no right to feed yourself. The “typical” anorexic or bulimic is a perfectionist in many ways. Many of us have had previous traumatic experiences that “set us up” for this condition.
Another thing that others fail to realize is how our bodies look to us…I now weigh 190, but when I was starving myself in my teens & 20’s,to me, I looked exactly the way I do now in the mirror!! I only know there is a change, because I see the numbers…& I wouldn’t even believe those, if it weren’t for the help of others. I have always looked “fat” to myself, even when I was down under 100 lbs, & eating only when someone stood over me…(And then, I would take a handful of laxatives secretly, to get rid of the nutrients because I was “bad” & thought I deserved to die!)
This is a horrible condition. There are programs that work, but they are very difficult to go through because they require you to eat!! Please, please, believe me when I say that, far from trying to “take the blame off herself”, the anorexic is blaming herself for more than you can possibly believe. Just hearing these words gives me a chill…Telling me that would have sent me into a downward spiral that would have killed me! I all ready hated myself as a worthless drain on the world, without being told that I was trying to make excuses. If you had told me that, I would have increased the degree of self destructive behaviour, because I would have seen it as confirmation of how bad a person I was. (cont).
The problem is that it looks like they are in control…But what actually happens is that you feel that this is the only thing in life that you can control! The rest of your life is outside of your ability to handle, but you feel that at least you can decide what goes into your own mouth.
It is also important to realize the degree of depression & self-loathing that exist in this condition. Often, anorexics stop eating because of feeling that we don’t deserve to eat…That you are such a horrible person that you have no right to feed yourself. The “typical” anorexic or bulimic is a perfectionist in many ways. Many of us have had previous traumatic experiences that “set us up” for this condition.
Another thing that others fail to realize is how our bodies look to us…I now weigh 190, but when I was starving myself in my teens & 20’s,to me, I looked exactly the way I do now in the mirror!! I only know there is a change, because I see the numbers…& I wouldn’t even believe those, if it weren’t for the help of others. I have always looked “fat” to myself, even when I was down under 100 lbs, & eating only when someone stood over me…(And then, I would take a handful of laxatives secretly, to get rid of the nutrients because I was “bad” & thought I deserved to die!)
This is a horrible condition. There are programs that work, but they are very difficult to go through because they require you to eat!! Please, please, believe me when I say that, far from trying to “take the blame off herself”, the anorexic is blaming herself for more than you can possibly believe. Just hearing these words gives me a chill…Telling me that would have sent me into a downward spiral that would have killed me! I all ready hated myself as a worthless drain on the world, without being told that I was trying to make excuses. If you had told me that, I would have increased the degree of self destructive behaviour, because I would have seen it as confirmation of how bad a person I was. (cont).
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Zooey
Guest
I cannot emphasize too much, that an anorexic believes she is worthless, & also that she is fat & ugly as part of the disease. When my bones were pushing through my skin so I had to sit on cushions to keep overstuffed chairs from hurting me, I still thought I was a fat, greedy woman who should stop eating & let the rest of the world have the food I was “wasting” on me!!
All of us, with eating disorders are trying desperately to somehow disappear. We have such a lousy sense of ourselves. We hate ourselves. We hate our bodies. We always see ourselves as useless, worthless, & we also always see ourselves as** fat**!!
We know we are not good enough. We know that!! We feel desperately guilty that we are taking up air & water, & food & space on this earth.
In no way are anorexics trying to “do something” to their families.On the contrary! If we think of family at all, it is only to remind ourselves how awful it must be for other people to have to put up with the presence of someone as bad as we know that we are.
And every time someone says, “just stop it”, that confirms the need to continue the behaviour, because we have heard this as confirmation of how much our very existence annoys you, the rest of the people in the world.
If we could only somehow give every bite of food away, maybe we will love ourselves then, but we can’t so we try vomiting or induced diarrhea to get rid of even more of ourselves!!
Of course your sister sees God as a judge & not a loving father; we see everyone as a judge. We know we are not loveable to other humans; how much more, we think, must God be disgusted by us? And thinking this, we eat even less…
Please, please, read up on this terrible illness, & do not, under any circumstances give up on assuring your sister of how loveable she truly is.
And remember: She does not believe she is losing weight! She believes she is grossly overweight to the point of being revolting!! That is how we see ourselves…as greedy thieves of the good things of life, things which horrible people like us have no right to!! That includes food. It also includes love…including the love of God.
Your entire family will be in my prayers.
All of us, with eating disorders are trying desperately to somehow disappear. We have such a lousy sense of ourselves. We hate ourselves. We hate our bodies. We always see ourselves as useless, worthless, & we also always see ourselves as** fat**!!
We know we are not good enough. We know that!! We feel desperately guilty that we are taking up air & water, & food & space on this earth.
In no way are anorexics trying to “do something” to their families.On the contrary! If we think of family at all, it is only to remind ourselves how awful it must be for other people to have to put up with the presence of someone as bad as we know that we are.
And every time someone says, “just stop it”, that confirms the need to continue the behaviour, because we have heard this as confirmation of how much our very existence annoys you, the rest of the people in the world.
If we could only somehow give every bite of food away, maybe we will love ourselves then, but we can’t so we try vomiting or induced diarrhea to get rid of even more of ourselves!!
Of course your sister sees God as a judge & not a loving father; we see everyone as a judge. We know we are not loveable to other humans; how much more, we think, must God be disgusted by us? And thinking this, we eat even less…
Please, please, read up on this terrible illness, & do not, under any circumstances give up on assuring your sister of how loveable she truly is.
And remember: She does not believe she is losing weight! She believes she is grossly overweight to the point of being revolting!! That is how we see ourselves…as greedy thieves of the good things of life, things which horrible people like us have no right to!! That includes food. It also includes love…including the love of God.
Your entire family will be in my prayers.
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MariaBelieves
Guest
Zooey and LSK,
AMEN!!! I ditto what they have said. When I realized I was powerless over my eating disordered behavior, it was the first step in realizing I was powerless over everything. For me, I need God to step in and heal me in this area of my life. So far, so good. Good luck, and I will be praying for you and for you all.
AMEN!!! I ditto what they have said. When I realized I was powerless over my eating disordered behavior, it was the first step in realizing I was powerless over everything. For me, I need God to step in and heal me in this area of my life. So far, so good. Good luck, and I will be praying for you and for you all.
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Brenda_V
Guest
Zooey - thank you for sharing this! I am hoping those who are reading this will see how hard it is to be anorexic (or any of the eating disorders) and depression. It is not something we want to do to ourselves but something we are compelled to do and you can get better, at least, one can get to a relatively normal thought process about themselves and how others percieve them.
There is hope.
So, yes, your part, Heartaflame(OP?) is to " So, the solution on my part is…to love her, support her, and to pray, correct?"
It wouldn’t be wrong to talk to her therapist and/or dr. to see if they have some suggestions that are more concrete too.
Brenda V.
There is hope.
So, yes, your part, Heartaflame(OP?) is to " So, the solution on my part is…to love her, support her, and to pray, correct?"
It wouldn’t be wrong to talk to her therapist and/or dr. to see if they have some suggestions that are more concrete too.
Brenda V.
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pira114
Guest
I have a problem with calling addictions diseases. If you are addicted to something, you make a conscious choice every time you do it. If you have a disease, you contracted the disease from an outside source.
I’m not trying to upset anyone, and I’m not downplaying how hard it can be to stop doing something, but that doesn’t make it a disease. I know there are millions of articles out there that will call it a disease, but I just don’t buy it.
For example, I’m a smoker. Some would say I’m an addict. It’s not a disease. I choose to do it. My father was an alcoholic. He chose to do it. It was not a disease. My Grandmother was diabetic. THAT was a disease. You could argue that she brought the disease on herself due to poor diet and lack of excersize, but it’s a disease. Just like when my smoking gives me cancer, it will be a disease. One that I brought on myself, but the act of smoking is not a disease. If I truely put my effort into quitting, I could. I simply choose not to at this time.
A lot of diseases are brought on by our behaviors, but that does not make the behavior a disease.
I’m not trying to upset anyone, and I’m not downplaying how hard it can be to stop doing something, but that doesn’t make it a disease. I know there are millions of articles out there that will call it a disease, but I just don’t buy it.
For example, I’m a smoker. Some would say I’m an addict. It’s not a disease. I choose to do it. My father was an alcoholic. He chose to do it. It was not a disease. My Grandmother was diabetic. THAT was a disease. You could argue that she brought the disease on herself due to poor diet and lack of excersize, but it’s a disease. Just like when my smoking gives me cancer, it will be a disease. One that I brought on myself, but the act of smoking is not a disease. If I truely put my effort into quitting, I could. I simply choose not to at this time.
A lot of diseases are brought on by our behaviors, but that does not make the behavior a disease.
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MariaBelieves
Guest
I just want to respond to the above. Do you think it might be possible that there might be some chemical/biological reason that “makes” you act out by smoking? Or perhaps there is an underlying genetic makeup that made your dad different from those who can drink normally, compelling him to act out by becoming an alcoholic? In that sense, I have a disease. I fully believe that what I have is a disease, something I was born with. I remember being obsessed with food at the age of two/three. I was obese by the time I was 7 or 8 (174 lbs) and anorexic (below 100 lbs) by age 11. In the interim, I have run the gamut of eating disorders. I believe there is a biological, genetic link for what I believe to be a disease. In order to cure myself of this disease, I need to follow a very strict plan of action. Part of that plan is spiritual, part of it is physical and part of it is emotional. I don’t mean to argue, but I think you’ll find that at the heart of a lot of “addictions” is a disease that must be treated as seriously as any other accepted medical ailment. God bless, Maria
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newf
Guest
Thank you for saying this, pira, I completely agree with you.
It seems to me that when we call something like smoking, alcoholism, bulemia and anorexia a ‘disease’ we are no longer responsible for the behavior.
My dad was alcoholic, too. It annoyed the heck out of me when he would call it a disease…because then he wasn’t responsble for the destruction he caused in our family. Alcoholism is not a disease, it is an addiction.
OTOH, I do believe that depression is a disease. It is not caused by behavior. It really is a medical issue that needs to be cared for with medical treatment.
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newf
Guest
Okay, here we go…here is a perfect example of 'I can’t help it, I have a disease. I am not responsible for my behavior".
Sorry, Maria, but I just don’t buy your logic. You surely have dealt with some problems. And I’m not downplaying your struggles. But they are no different than the person who tries not to steal, not to lie, not to engage in porn…basically not to sin. To abuse your body is a sin, it’s not a disease.
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MariaBelieves
Guest
Dear Newf,
Since I don’t think we are going to agree, I’m just going to say that I’ve already gone over to a winning side. I have been in recovery for quite a long time, and that is proof enough for me. God bless.
Maria
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LittleRose
Guest
You stated that you recognize depression as a disease. Eating disorders are nearly always directly related to depression, which is a medically recognized disease, out of the control of the patient in question. For sufferers of eating disorders, the two go together and must be overcome together. It is not as much in their control as it may appear to be to those of us who have not experienced it. That does not mean that these difficulties cannot be overcome, but it does mean that it will take a long time and a great deal of effort. It is not as simple as just deciding to cheer up and start adopting healthy eating habits, and the fact that someone suffers from depression and/or an eating disorder should not be used to judge the condition of that person’s faith any more than we would judge a person who suffers from any other serious debilitating illness.
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heartaflame
Guest
Thank you all for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I apologize that it got a little heated, but it was a blessing to be able read both sides. I have to say that I have developed a lot more compassion for my sister after reading several testamonies. Whether or not it is a “disease” I will leave alone, but I have new energy to help my sister overcome this beast.
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newf
Guest
Just because a person suffers with depression, they do not have the right to sin by abusing their body with eating disorders or alcohol or drugs or whatever…
LittleRose, no one said it was simple. No one said to just ‘cheer up and eat right’. Duh.
But here’s my favorite quote of yours…“and the fact that someone suffers from depression and/or an eating disorder should not be used to judge the condition of that person’s faith any more than we would judge a person who suffers from any other serious debilitating illness.”
Where did I ever jugde a person’s faith??
I guess it’s okay for YOU to judge me by telling me not to judge…give me a break.
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newf
Guest
heartaflame,
My sister stuggled with bulemia and anorexia for over 12 years. I understand how hard it is for you. There is good advice here on just being her friend through the long road.
Don’t give up on her. I’ll keep you in my prayers. And have a Merry Christmas.
My sister stuggled with bulemia and anorexia for over 12 years. I understand how hard it is for you. There is good advice here on just being her friend through the long road.
Don’t give up on her. I’ll keep you in my prayers. And have a Merry Christmas.
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CatholicSam
Guest
Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic, right? So once an anorexic, always an anorexic?
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LSK
Guest
Being an Alcoholic is not simply being addicted to alcohol. This is a common misconception. If this was true then detox centers would spit out cured alcoholics all the time. They don’t…because alcoholics are treating their disease by drinking alcohol, they are not simply addicted to alcohol as a substance.
It is a difficult distinction to understand, I know, but you cannot compare it with being addicted to nicotine.
I am a recovering alcoholic and have been sober since May 4, 1992. I quit smoking at 2 years sober and picked up a cigaret 2 months ago during Roddy’s illness…and just put them down again a week ago. I did not reset my sobriety date for alcohol…that would be stupid. However, I would be equally dishonest if I didn’t say to people that I became addicted once again to nicotine and had to break the habit again.
It is not the same thing…
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LSK
Guest
Absolutely…people who deal with the diseases of anorexia and bulemia have to be on guard against the flare ups that will lead to a reoccurence of the behavior and must do certain things every day to stay spiritually fit, just like an alcoholic must chose a different way to treat their alcoholism every day or the pain they will feel being stone cold sober will cause them to forget the problems treating their alcoholism with alcohol will cause them and other people.
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anna1978
Guest
I don’t really have any advise, as I have struggled with overeating since my father died when I was a young girl: I simply followed my mother’s example, she dealt with it by eating, eating and more eating…and I just followed, until the ‘habit’ became so ingrained, I couldn’t stop if I wanted to…Logically I know I’m killing myself…but I become very depressed if I don’t eat away my anger, frustration etc. I think your sister has a similar ‘void’ inside her, that I fill with food, and she ‘fills’ with abstaining from food…I really hope she WILL get help, but until she’s ready…there’s very little you can do, I’m afraid. It’s still her life, her body…Praying for you both!
Anna x
Anna x
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