Another Annoyed at RCIA thread

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corvidae said:
But I think the thing here is all christian baptism is valid. Unless there are grave misconceptions about God, Such as with mormons, anyone can baptise, and any christian who has been baptised with water “in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” then they are baptised. It seems strange to me to seperate those baptised Catholic and those not.

A lone Raven
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I don’t know anything about your specific case. There may be pastoral or administrative reasons for doing it the way they are doing it.

It would make more sense to me to include the baptized Protestants and the lapsed Catholics in one group, and the unbaptized in the other. But maybe they don’t have all of the baptismal certificates in, yet - which could explain why they are treating some baptized people as “unbaptized” - maybe this is only until they receive the proof of baptism?
 
Coming from a strong Bible background, I realized very early on that I wasn’t going to learn much in RCIA. I decided that my time spent there was to encourage the other candidates and get to know them.

However, during the Q & A time, I would ask difficult questions… WHY do we pray to Mary rather than just God? WHY do we bury St. Jospeh in the yard to sell a house? WHY do we have to go to purgatory first? HOW are we saved? Is tradition more important than the Bible? Why does it seem that way?

So even if the program wasn’t very “meaty” - they were going to have to deal w/ my questions. I would actually email my priest in advance. “Hello Father… this is what I’m going to be asking in class this week…” (Gosh, they were probably thrilled after Easter to be rid of me?!)

I would encourage you to do the same. Keep going along with the program - but get your concerns addressed.

Also, I found the fourms the best place to get all my questions answered. Really, the apologetics here convinced me the Church was correct. Well, them and the Holy Spirit. So pray as you go.

And because I’m such a nice person, I’m willing to help you out. If your main question is “Should I leave the Baptist faith and become Catholic?” The answer is Yes.

😉
 
carol_marie said:
Coming from a strong Bible background, I realized very early on that I wasn’t going to learn much in RCIA. I decided that my time spent there was to encourage the other candidates and get to know them.

However, during the Q & A time, I would ask difficult questions… WHY do we pray to Mary rather than just God? WHY do we bury St. Jospeh in the yard to sell a house? WHY do we have to go to purgatory first? HOW are we saved? Is tradition more important than the Bible? Why does it seem that way?

So even if the program wasn’t very “meaty” - they were going to have to deal w/ my questions. I would actually email my priest in advance. “Hello Father… this is what I’m going to be asking in class this week…” (Gosh, they were probably thrilled after Easter to be rid of me?!)

I would encourage you to do the same. Keep going along with the program - but get your concerns addressed.

Also, I found the fourms the best place to get all my questions answered. Really, the apologetics here convinced me the Church was correct. Well, them and the Holy Spirit. 🙂 So pray as you go.

And because I’m such a nice person, I’m willing to help you out. If your main question is “Should I leave the Baptist faith and become Catholic?” The answer is Yes.

😉
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I agree, I know I’m not sorry for converting. Be open to the Holy Spirit’s leading.

Sherry
 
carol_marie said:
Coming from a strong Bible background, I realized very early on that I wasn’t going to learn much in RCIA. I decided that my time spent there was to encourage the other candidates and get to know them.
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What a great attitude!! 🙂
And because I’m such a nice person, I’m willing to help you out. If your main question is “Should I leave the Baptist faith and become Catholic?” The answer is Yes.
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:dancing: :love: :bounce: :yup: 👍
 
jmcrae said:
Unbaptized people don’t, yet, and they have different needs. The Rites themselves show the distinction clearly, but if the Rites aren’t being used correctly (or at all) then it’s easy for RCIA to become just another Catechism class - which is not what it’s supposed to be - there is a Period of Catechesis in RCIA, but the other six parts of it are also really important, as well.

RCIA is supposed to be a spiritual journey - not a “learning experience.” 😉
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My spiritual needs were no greater than the Presbyterian woman sitting next to me. If I and the other three unbaptized people had been separated from the rest of the group, I probably wouldn’t be posting messages on this forum today. I’d be posting to a Lutheran forum, perhaps. To be singled out because I’m supposedly “lacking” just because I hadn’t been baptized would have been WRONG. I was not a stranger to Christianity or the Catholic church, by any means. Just not baptized.

The Rites were used correctly at my parish. I have no doubt about that. Yes, RCIA was a wonderful spiritual journey.
 
RyanL_s_Wife said:
Exactly. That is my issue. They are separating us into two groups
  1. Those Baptized in the Catholic church
and
  1. Those not baptized or baptized anywhere other than the Catholic church.
This grouping does not seem appropriate.
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The proper groupings is this:

Those not Validly Baptized. - Catechumens requiring a full year RCIA process.

Those who were validly Baptized as infants or children but never catechized and never brought up in or practiced Christianity. - Candidate requiring a full year RCIA like process.

Those who were validly Baptized as infants, children or adults and raised and practiced Christianity. - Candidate requiring an abbreviated RCIA like process dependent on the individual.
 
Hello. I went through the RCIA class last year, and I actually suffered some of the same frustrations as you. I was raised in a very religious family (at least on my mother’s side), and I read and did a lot of study before I decided to enter the Catholic Church. So, by the time I went through the process, I already knew a whole lot about the faith. However, in the RCIA group, I was with a lot of people who did not know much about the faith at all. One member of the class even had difficulty finding the gospels in the Bible.
However, remember, it is very difficult to arrange a class for any group, and it is very hard to know exactly where each person is coming from, and how much religious background they have. Not every parish has the resources to plan for two different groups, or more. Every person in the class is different, intellectually, emotionally, or spiritually.
I do agree, though, it is bad that your RCIA group is not using the words “catechumens” and “candidates.” I also agree that the RCIA should not place those baptized in another faith with those who have not been baptized. This is not in keeping with the Bishops’ wishes, or with the Catholic Church’s understanding on baptism in other faiths.
As to what you should do, I think, first, you should be patient. I would always try to remember that it is very difficult to plan a program to people at various different points in their faith journey, with people who know a lot about the faith, and those who know almost nothing. I would also try to remember to show humility, and not to attempt to impress everyone with my knowledge of the faith. After all, intellectual knowledge does not save us. Now that I’m Catholic, I can share my knowledge at the RCIA meetings, since I’m expected to have such knowledge, and I can say something occasionally without appearing as though I’m stuck up or bragging. Perhaps, at some point, you can share your concerns with the leaders of the RCIA group, but just make sure you do it with charity, and respect. The team most likely has worked very hard to ensure a good process.
Anyway, good luck on your journey, whether or not you continue with the process.
 
Hang in there, RyanL’s Wife! The holy spirit is already calling you, and is just waiting for you to answer. Try to continue to go with willingness, humility, and a heart of clay.

I converted in 2003, and am now a sponsor. When I first started out, I felt the same way that you did. I grew up in a Protestant church and I thought I knew the Bible more than everyone else there. But, over the many months of the program, I realized that Catholics read many of the same Bible passages in a completely different way. I looked at things with Protestant-tainted glasses and assumptions that weren’t in fact “biblical”. So, the first month or two of classes at first seemed very basic – who is God, blah blah blah, stuff that I already knew and believed – but as time went on, I realized that there were subtle differences. I am sure that you will know what I mean as you continue to go. Watch closely for them, pray that you’ll understand them, and be open to allowing yourself to re-learn the basics of your faith. When there really are no differences, be encouraged by the fact that you already are in line with the Church, and thank the Lord for making it easier for you than for other people. 🙂
 
Wow, the disappointed people over RCIA is a bit of a shock to me. I have a friend who went through months of RCIA or classes at a Catholic Church and she said that they covered history, saints, theology, church doctrine, etc. She said she knew a ton after it was over. The posts here are disappointing. I thought RCIA would be a big learning experience.
 
carol_marie said:
Coming from a strong Bible background, I realized very early on that I wasn’t going to learn much in RCIA. I decided that my time spent there was to encourage the other candidates and get to know them.

However, during the Q & A time, I would ask difficult questions… WHY do we pray to Mary rather than just God? WHY do we bury St. Jospeh in the yard to sell a house? WHY do we have to go to purgatory first? HOW are we saved? Is tradition more important than the Bible? Why does it seem that way?

So even if the program wasn’t very “meaty” - they were going to have to deal w/ my questions. I would actually email my priest in advance. “Hello Father… this is what I’m going to be asking in class this week…” (Gosh, they were probably thrilled after Easter to be rid of me?!)

I would encourage you to do the same. Keep going along with the program - but get your concerns addressed.

Also, I found the fourms the best place to get all my questions answered. Really, the apologetics here convinced me the Church was correct. Well, them and the Holy Spirit. So pray as you go.

And because I’m such a nice person, I’m willing to help you out. If your main question is “Should I leave the Baptist faith and become Catholic?” The answer is Yes.

😉
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Just curious. What answers did you get to these particular questions?
 
I started reading this thread because I’ve considered going through RCIA, much for the same reason as other posters- I still have questions, but maybe I could mee the Holy Spirit halfway. I think after reading these posts, I’ll probably continue my correspondence with a Sister at a local parish, to get some of my questions answered before making the leap.

The book that Catherine mentioned is excellent. I’m an Evangelical Christian, and just happened to come across it at the local Christian book store. As an Evangelical firmly seated in my faith (I grew up much as the author did, believing that Catholics were well intentioned, just misled) it shook my faith. It launched a full-out study of a faith that I had previously written off. I have currently lost track of my dog-eared copy, having lent it to so many people! Its an excellent book for someone who is happy on their Protestant pedestal, to shake their world a little bit. 🙂
Becka
 
Thank you so much for all your insight. (especially, valient Lucy and Corrine)

After thinking about it. I think our particular RCIA program would be great for someone who knew they wanted to join the Catholic Church. However, I am not sure it is geared for those of us still undecided and searching. Guess we will just have to wait and see. I go to our first retreat tomorrow. (Here’s to hoping…)

God Bless,

RyanL’s Wife
 
If anyone is in the metro Detroit area, you can certainly swing on over to Assumption Grotto where the pastor himself teaches adult catechism, which is aimed at those wanting to enhance their understanding of the CCC, those needed the Sacrament of Confirmation, and those interested in exploring the Catholic faith or converting.

We don’t have anything called “RCIA”. But Father’s Catechism, would make that look like kindergarten roundup. I’ve read far too long about the banality of these classes in many parishes, and even heresy being taught in others. More than likely it is because poorly catechized, well-meaning parishioners are teaching, rather than someone with good philosophical and theological background.

I could never understand why a priest would leave such an important thing to someone else - of all the things he does, aside from Mass. People converting can have very tough questions and they deserve solid answers.

Also, I have found many people who are converting to be better self-catechized, than the average cradle Catholic these days, myself included. Only in the last year have I taken a deeper interest and begun to study. For this reason, I think RCIA is even more of a problem because some of the students actually know more than the teachers!

My pastor said last year when I sat in on the class, that he feels this is a job that belongs to him. So, from fall until spring, weekly, he came and he taught. This year his talk will be based on the new Compendium. He allows for Q & A too.

I have not been through RCIA, nor have I seen the materials, but my general perception after seeing so many threads on this, is that it is as fluffy as the “my butterfly and me” catechism, I grew up on.
 
becka01101 said:
I started reading this thread because I’ve considered going through RCIA, much for the same reason as other posters- I still have questions, but maybe I could mee the Holy Spirit halfway. I think after reading these posts, I’ll probably continue my correspondence with a Sister at a local parish, to get some of my questions answered before making the leap.

The book that Catherine mentioned is excellent. I’m an Evangelical Christian, and just happened to come across it at the local Christian book store. As an Evangelical firmly seated in my faith (I grew up much as the author did, believing that Catholics were well intentioned, just misled) it shook my faith. It launched a full-out study of a faith that I had previously written off. I have currently lost track of my dog-eared copy, having lent it to so many people! Its an excellent book for someone who is happy on their Protestant pedestal, to shake their world a little bit. 🙂
Becka
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Well that is what the INQUIRY stage of RCIA is for. This is the stage before the Rite of Acceptance for those not Baptized and the Rite of Welcome for those who are Baptized.

This is the time to ask those questions that have bugged you, those questions causing you to not be so sure.

INQUIRY can last anywhere from 6 weeks to a year for some people.

Problem is many parishes simply decide to skip this step all together, because they only have nine months to get you ready for Easter Vigil! Grrrrrr!
 
I understand your frustrations. I went through RCIA last year and had the same feelings at first. I thought that considering my background and my working towards a theology degree that I knew everything I needed to know about Christianity and specifically Catholicism. Many of the topics discussed in RCIA I had already learned in greater detail about in my theology classes.

It was a good experience though. I decided that I would help others in my class who weren’t as far along in knowledge and understanding as I was. They can’t always separate the different groups because there aren’t always the resources. So, while it was definitely elementary information, I do feel that I benefited from it. If they had asked us to be dismissed during Mass I would’ve complained though (luckily, we didn’t do dismissals…that would’ve required getting 12 college students and grad students all to the same Mass, which wasn’t possible on a regular basis).

I do hope you have a better experience. My advice would be to really use this experience to get close to God, and see if your experience and knowledge can help others on their journeys.
 
becka01101 said:
I started reading this thread because I’ve considered going through RCIA, much for the same reason as other posters- I still have questions, but maybe I could mee the Holy Spirit halfway. I think after reading these posts, I’ll probably continue my correspondence with a Sister at a local parish, to get some of my questions answered before making the leap.

The book that Catherine mentioned is excellent. I’m an Evangelical Christian, and just happened to come across it at the local Christian book store. As an Evangelical firmly seated in my faith (I grew up much as the author did, believing that Catholics were well intentioned, just misled) it shook my faith. It launched a full-out study of a faith that I had previously written off. I have currently lost track of my dog-eared copy, having lent it to so many people! Its an excellent book for someone who is happy on their Protestant pedestal, to shake their world a little bit. 🙂
Becka
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Did you happen to read this book too? I have thought about getting it and don’t know anything about it.
amazon.com/What-Authority-Evangelical-Discovers-Tradition/dp/0879738510/ref=pd_sim_b_1/002-1973444-8572041?ie=UTF8
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
Well that is what the INQUIRY stage of RCIA is for. This is the stage before the Rite of Acceptance for those not Baptized and the Rite of Welcome for those who are Baptized.

This is the time to ask those questions that have bugged you, those questions causing you to not be so sure.

INQUIRY can last anywhere from 6 weeks to a year for some people.

Problem is many parishes simply decide to skip this step all together, because they only have nine months to get you ready for Easter Vigil! Grrrrrr!
Click to expand...
We are moving toward year-round RCIA (which will be an 18-month to two year process for the catechumens, ultimately) and we already have an established year-round Inquiry group. My only problem (as the coordinator of Inquiry) is that for six months out of the year, I have no place to send the ones who are ready to move on to the Rite of Acceptance and Period of Catechesis.

But it’s working out well, for the most part. I have explained to the participants that if they are still here after a certain date in September, then they will most likely be received into the Church in not this coming Easter but the one a year from then, and that they probably won’t start Catechesis until after this coming Easter.

Most of them are okay with it - the rest go parish-shopping. They can do that right now because we still have a lot of parishes that are on the abbreviated RCIA, but our Bishop has said that all parishes need to be doing year-round RCIA, and I don’t know how much longer he will permit there to be abbreviated RCIAs in our Diocese.

One problem is getting sufficient volunteers. I still need at least two more volunteers in Inquiry alone, and the Period of Catechesis needs at least two people who can take a beginner class between the end of September and Easter. (Our Catechist doesn’t like taking beginners after the end of summer, because he feels that people coming in “late” as he terms it, are disruptive to community-building in the group.
 
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