Another Annoyed at RCIA thread

[Veritas41]

Having gone through RCIA , I can sympathize with your frustrations. I find it odd that the baptized candidates are separated the way they are in your parish’s program. All the RCIA programs I’ve been familiar with just distinguish between catechumens and candidates, but they all receive the same instruction. I wonder if RCIA should offer a two-tiered program, one for those more informed in the faith and others who know little or nothing.

The RCIA program I went through was headed by a liberal DRE and there was little theological instruction, mostly just discussion. We even had invited parishioners come and talk to us, one of whom told us to go to another church if we weren’t “getting it” in the Catholic Church. Wow, that’s a ringing endorsement of the Catholic Church! If I had left it up to RCIA to convince me of the truth of the Catholic Church, I would still be Presbyterian . However, I had studied for months before entering RCIA, so even the ineptness and heresy I encountered in our program couldn’t deter me from becoming Catholic. And I think I had to go through that because God was preparing me for what I was going to have to encounter in my present parish, where I’m dealing with a DRE who is less than orthodox. I teach middle school faith formation and have to inject meat into the lessons which are watered-down milk as well as deal with heretical and erroneous content in some of the materials we have used.

In my experience, which may or may not be typical of others, I have had to learn about the Catholic faith mostly on my own. The parishes I have belonged to had very little theological content in the homilies and not much offered in the way of adult faith formation. It’s not that way in every Catholic parish, but it is pretty common.

All this God has worked for my good. I believe He has called me to teach, and the ignorance and poor instruction I"ve encountered within the Church has motivated me in this calling. I want to see other Catholics more fully instructed in their faith so they can appreciate and love Christ and His Church in a deeper way.

 

[Gilbert_Keith]

Yes, RCIA can be a can of worms.

The main problem is that so few of the RCIA instructors have experience in teaching, or the maturity of intellect to be consistently interesting and innovative in their approach.

As to your main complaint, I think the solution is relatively simple: ask the RCIA team to set aside ten minutes at the end of each meeting to discuss your concerns about what it is that the Catholic Church teaches that the Protestants don’t.

And if you have specific concerns, why not present them in writing to the RCIA team so that they can prepare themselves to answer you at a future session?

And when you are able, join the RCIA team and make your own unique contribution.

 

[jmcrae]

Yes, RCIA can be a can of worms.

The main problem is that so few of the RCIA instructors have experience in teaching, or the maturity of intellect to be consistently interesting and innovative in their approach.

That’s quite true. RCIA leaders are ordinary lay volunteers, and there is very little specialized training - they check to make sure we have a pulse, throw the books at us, send us on an RCIA leaders’ retreat, and voila, we’re in charge.

We all do the best we can, and we rely a great deal on the Holy Spirit, but if we come across as “experts” on anything, it’s purely a trick of the light. In a lot of cases (and especially in our first year of doing it), we’re one lesson ahead of the class.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

All right I went and looked it up to reduce confusion it is called the “Rite of Acceptance into the Order of Catechumen” So I hope that clears up an confusion I may have caused earlier in the thread. Now a question to the group, Do you treat that as a Go / No Go stage?

We do not we treat it as the formation of the RCIA (Catechumen) class. Prior to this the RCIA classes are really all touchy feely with the exceptions of questions. Sure we do a reading and tour the church but mostly we focus on autobiography style conversations. We are moving to year round, but between Easter and June’s ending session class attendance is pitiful, July is team oriented (training), end of August starts Inquiry. I really believe extending the season just lowers attendance. Are you scheduling weekly during the 12-18 month schedule. Also this years retreat (large national style) required you to spend a week in travel & class, most including me said we just can take our work vacation for this retreat. If we go year round class on a weekly base we will have to have a split team it is a lot of work for our volunteers

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Some questions for Mrs. L

So what did you think of the retreat?

Have you considered using questions on Catholic Tradition and Doctrine to move the class on to subjects you want answers to? Our best classes allow 30 minutes of open questions, that is when the Catechumens perk up and seem alive.

I rather see you over whelm the Catechist than spend another class watching their(catechumen) eyes scan the walls

 

[jmcrae]

All right I went and looked it up to reduce confusion it is called the “Rite of Acceptance into the Order of Catechumen” So I hope that clears up an confusion I may have caused earlier in the thread. Now a question to the group, Do you treat that as a Go / No Go stage?

We have a lot of people drop out during the Catechesis stage, so although it’s a deeper level of commitment, it’s not the final decision. The final decision is really at Initiation itself.

In theory, they can drop out simply by refusing to go up and be baptized, right there on the day. I’ve never seen that actually happen, but in theory, they could do that, and no one would chase after them or say that they were breaking a promise.

I’ve never seen anyone who made it to the Rite of Election not make it all the way, though.

We do not we treat it as the formation of the RCIA (Catechumen) class. Prior to this the RCIA classes are really all touchy feely with the exceptions of questions.

Yep, same here, although we prefer the term “Welcoming” instead of “touchy-feely” but yes, it’s about making them feel welcomed.

Are you scheduling weekly during the 12-18 month schedule.

Not yet, but that would be the ideal. As soon as I get one more volunteer, Inquiry will be weekly. Our Catechesis section needs more work than that, though - they are further behind than we are on getting it up to year-round.

Also this years retreat (large national style) required you to spend a week in travel & class, most including me said we just can take our work vacation for this retreat.

I have been to weekend RCIA retreats, but a week seems like a lot, especially if everyone has to go.

If we go year round class on a weekly base we will have to have a split team it is a lot of work for our volunteers

It is a ton of work for the volunteers - that’s why we need lots of them, to spread out the load. What they recommend in the book Year Round RCIA by Mary Birmingham is for teams of two to take four-month shifts. Another idea would be to alternate months, but keep continuity by staggering the months, so that you have say six volunteers, Person A, B, C, D, E, and F.

A and B do January, then B and C do February, then C and D do March, D and E do April, E and F do May, F and A do June, A and B do July, and so on, so that each person is doing two months at a time, but there is always someone there who knows what happened last week, and what topics they are working on.

It takes a while for people to figure out that it’s going on, but once they know you’re there, they come. Most people just assume that there is no RCIA in the summer, but now that we’ve been doing it for a couple of years, we’re starting to get lots of people coming in the summer time, as well.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

All right I went and looked it up to reduce confusion it is called the “Rite of Acceptance into the Order of Catechumen” So I hope that clears up an confusion I may have caused earlier in the thread. Now a question to the group, Do you treat that as a Go / No Go stage?

We do not we treat it as the formation of the RCIA (Catechumen) class. Prior to this the RCIA classes are really all touchy feely with the exceptions of questions. Sure we do a reading and tour the church but mostly we focus on autobiography style conversations. We are moving to year round, but between Easter and June’s ending session class attendance is pitiful, July is team oriented (training), end of August starts Inquiry. I really believe extending the season just lowers attendance. Are you scheduling weekly during the 12-18 month schedule. Also this years retreat (large national style) required you to spend a week in travel & class, most including me said we just can take our work vacation for this retreat. If we go year round class on a weekly base we will have to have a split team it is a lot of work for our volunteers

YES, The step between Inquiry and The Rite of Acceptance into the Order of Catechumens, is a critical decision for the person, their Sponsor and the Pastor/team. As also is the decision to move from The Order of Catechumens to The Elect with the Rite of Sending and the Rite of Election. These also are a critical decision by the person, their Sponsor and the Pastor/team.

These are also the two places where interviews with the person and the persons Sponsor take place.

 

[RyanL_s_Wife]

Some questions for Mrs. L

So what did you think of the retreat?

Hi, The retreat??? Well, it wasn’t terrible.

We had a couple of Gospel readings, sung a few songs, and broke up into groups of two to discuss some questions the RCIA team had written up. I still feel like the process isn’t designed for someone at my stage in the journey. But I tried to revamp some of the questions so they applied to me. That seemed to work. I am a little curious what sponsor I will be assigned. I had to discuss answers with three different sponsors. The first one… was okay… I mentioned NFP once and she had no idea what I was talking about… but that’s okay. The next girl was great! But somehow we got on to NFP again and she was excited I knew about it because she and her husband were just started it. (So we actually talked about that more than the questions we were suppose to talk about) But, I think I made a new friend out of it. The third sponsor I talked to…um… well… let just say, at one time she told me God didn’t care what religion I was…and some other stuff that just wasn’t quite right. I joked with my husband that if God really wanted to punish me for being so negative about RCIA, he would have this woman assigned to me as my sponsor. AHHHH! But overall it was an okay day. I think it is all about perspective.

So, Thanks everyone for helping get the right perspective. Obviously, something is going right since I didn’t come home all annoyed and whiny.

I will try and keep you updated.

Have you considered using questions on Catholic Tradition and Doctrine to move the class on to subjects you want answers to? Our best classes allow 30 minutes of open questions, that is when the Catechumens perk up and seem alive.

The class is pretty scheduled and structured. The priest comes in and speaks on a particular subject. We can ask questions about that subject, but there is not really an open question type of thing available. However, if given the opportunity I might try that tactic.

God Bless,

RyanL’s Wife

 

[Guardian]

I’ve heard RCIA is terrible from many people. I myself went through RCIA, and it was terrible.

However, I kind of like the idea that it is terrible. It’s a weed-out program. If you stick through approximately 6 months of boring, pointless talk by people that don’t know much, then that shows you REALLY want to be a Catholic.

Of course, I think the whole program needs revamped, but hey, whether it’s good or bad it has advantages.

 

[jmcrae]

I’ve heard RCIA is terrible from many people. I myself went through RCIA, and it was terrible.

However, I kind of like the idea that it is terrible. It’s a weed-out program. If you stick through approximately 6 months of boring, pointless talk by people that don’t know much, then that shows you REALLY want to be a Catholic.

Of course, I think the whole program needs revamped, but hey, whether it’s good or bad it has advantages.

I’ve always considered it to be a preview of Purgatory - both as a former participant, and as a facilitator.

Whenever I need a motive to do a devotional Confession for the purpose of gaining an Indulgence, and if I find myself talking myself out of it because I seem to have no mortal sins, I just say to myself, “Purgatory will be even worse than RCIA,” and then I have no trouble making time to get there, and even staying a while to say some extra prayers.

Actually, I shouldn’t complain like that. I appreciate the privilege of being allowed to work with converts, and being allowed to be part of their journey into the Church, and there are so many beautiful “aha” moments that I’m so glad I get to be there to witness and be part of.

It’s the details that drive me crazy.

 

[becka01101]

Stupid question- but do they actually assign you a sponsor, or do you choose one? And that leads me to another question- what exactly is the role of sponsor during this process?

If this is too big of a question for this thread, I can repost it in its own thread.

Thanks!
Becka

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Stupid question- but do they actually assign you a sponsor, or do you choose one? And that leads me to another question- what exactly is the role of sponsor during this process?

If this is too big of a question for this thread, I can repost it in its own thread.

Thanks!
Becka

Sponsor are assigned however many programs honor requests provided the requested sponsor is a reasonable selection

 

[valient_Lucy]

I’ve heard RCIA is terrible from many people. I myself went through RCIA, and it was terrible.

However, I kind of like the idea that it is terrible. It’s a weed-out program. If you stick through approximately 6 months of boring, pointless talk by people that don’t know much, then that shows you REALLY want to be a Catholic.

Of course, I think the whole program needs revamped, but hey, whether it’s good or bad it has advantages.

I guess it’s kind of like the Benedictine Monestaries during the Middle Ages. If you wanted to become a Benedictine monk, you had to stand outside the doors of the monestary for a week before they’d let you inside the building. Then they’d read the entire rule for the Benedictine monestary, to see if you actually wanted to live by it.

 

[becka01101]

Sponsor are assigned however many programs honor requests provided the requested sponsor is a reasonable selection

Thank you!

 

[homewardbound]

Wow, definitely voice your concerns with the preist! Also, try to give it a few more chances also. It is frustrating when you already know everything, so why not make use of that knowledge and help those in the class who don’t? Its very hard to believe, but not everyone knows the bible stories.

My RCIA started out with a question time and this week we’re starting on things. They’re only focusing on the Catholic aspect of things though. They’re only doing on class on the Bible and the rest will be on sacraments, saints, things like that. I think your RCIA might be going a little too far in the generics. RCIA is isn’t and cannot teach everything about Christianity. Its should only be the basics in order to help everyone understand the Catholic faith. IMO, those who want to and/or need a deeper understanding of the basics of Christian faith they should set that up with someone outside of class. Especially when in an RCIA class with so many different levels of understanding.

I hope your priest is understanding and helpful. If not, maybe look into some of the other RCIA classes around your area. Some of them might be better set up.

Take care

 

[kellie]

hi RyanL’s Wife,

I am a cradle Catholic, and decided to help with my parish RCIA last year.

I thought it would not only benefit the catechumens and candidates, but also I would benefit from learning about my faith more.

I was so disappointed.

We took the catechumens and candidates to a meeting room after they were dismissed from Mass, and we spoke about the Gospel for that day.

We then brushed over what they should expect at each of their rites, and their eventual baptism and/or confirmation.

I never learnt anything new.

I have learnt much more about my faith since being involved in these forums, and reading material recommended by people here.

I somehow don’t think RCIA is geared for people like yourself, who are wishing to learn Catholic theology.

It is, as you have seen, more for people who have never been involved in any religion at all.

I would encourage you not to take your welcoming rites, and take another year to fully study Catholic theology and teachings through talks with your local priests, materials at this forum, and other Catholic sites and books.

Only then will you truly know whether you are ready.

Keep praying, and I will pray for you too.
Keep learning.

Good luck

 

[Mijoy2]

Maybe this point has been discussed, I haven’t read the entire thread.

Is the Archdiocese behind any part off the local parishes RCIA class? Particularily the curriculum? If not why not?

My wife and daughter came into the faith Easter 2004. My younger daughter Easter 2003. My older daughter had her RCIA in college at a Newman Center. I got the impression from her that the experience was painful boring and from talking about the faith with her (what liitle she will allow without rolling her eyes) she certainly did not learn much.

As for my wife’s experience I went with her to virtually all (maybe minus one or two) of her RCIA classes. The RCIA experience in my parish is actually a collaborated experience involving a number of local churches in surrounding towns. The effort, put forth, was very good. A priest from one of the churches oversaw and heavily participated in the classes.

I came away with mixed feelings over the experience. I can see the difficulties of attempting to conduct a class such as RCIA. The catechumens and candidates come from vastly differing religious or non-religious background. As mentioned previously it appeared to me the curriculum leaned to the people of no or little previous faith experience and very little to people coming from other faiths including (and maybe esspecially) other christian denominations.

This frustrated me. However as I attempted to absorb the reaction of others, I feel the majority (maybe not vast majority but majority) of the people there were in need of grass roots basic instruction.

To wander into the doctrine of purgatory, or the doctrines of Mary or the infallability/ authority of the church beyond mere mention might have been too much. Particularily if these doctrine were brought up in an apologectic nature such as is often done in these forums.

There were times when I was just itching for someone to question the formentioned doctrines simply so that enriching dialouge might ensue. I felt like it was not my place to do so being a “visitor”. Although as eliquently as possible I did attempt to spark dialogue from time to time but was very careful to not cross any lines.

The more difficult teachings of the church we discuss here in these forums seemed to be obviously side-stepped when encroached upon. My wife, one time brought up missing Mass and mortal sin and the priest (with all the best intention) did a dance so well he could have won an award. He was obviously quite flustered and uncomfortable. To be honest I was uncomfortable too.

I suspect that most indiviuals good enough to give thier tiime and help out by starting and participating in a parish RCIA program fear losing anyone. Especially where these classes are often very thin to begin with and many are lost simply because they have little interest to begin with and quickly lose steam.

The only remedy I can envision is a prescribed curriculum. Possibly a prescribed curriculum with varying options. For example if the class has individuals who are from other christian denomination and already love Jesus and have vast knowledge of sacred scripture, they’d be instructed differently. The logistics of this may be tough since volunteers are hard to come by.

Or in many cases are chicken, like me.

 

[valient_Lucy]

hi RyanL’s Wife,

I am a cradle Catholic, and decided to help with my parish RCIA last year.

I thought it would not only benefit the catechumens and candidates, but also I would benefit from learning about my faith more.

I was so disappointed.

We took the catechumens and candidates to a meeting room after they were dismissed from Mass, and we spoke about the Gospel for that day.

We then brushed over what they should expect at each of their rites, and their eventual baptism and/or confirmation.

I never learnt anything new.

I have learnt much more about my faith since being involved in these forums, and reading material recommended by people here.

I somehow don’t think RCIA is geared for people like yourself, who are wishing to learn Catholic theology.

It is, as you have seen, more for people who have never been involved in any religion at all.

I would encourage you not to take your welcoming rites, and take another year to fully study Catholic theology and teachings through talks with your local priests, materials at this forum, and other Catholic sites and books.

Only then will you truly know whether you are ready.

Keep praying, and I will pray for you too.
Keep learning.

Good luck

I hope you don’t necessarily give up. Even if you aren’t on the team, go to a meeting or find a way to meet the catechumens and candidates. Pass on what you have learned here to them, and to others on the team.

 

[mercygate]

Stupid question- but do they actually assign you a sponsor, or do you choose one? And that leads me to another question- what exactly is the role of sponsor during this process?

If this is too big of a question for this thread, I can repost it in its own thread.

Thanks!
Becka

A sponsor must be a practicing Catholic in good standing. They often accompany you through the whole process, including the weekly sessions. But at the very least, that person is the witness/presenter when you come up for the succession of rites that bring you up to reception in to full Communion. You are usually permitted to choose your own sponsor, although different programs have different regs. If your program expects you to accept an assigned sponsor, and you have somebody in mind who is important to you, talk to the director.

 

[jmcrae]

Stupid question- but do they actually assign you a sponsor, or do you choose one? And that leads me to another question- what exactly is the role of sponsor during this process?

If this is too big of a question for this thread, I can repost it in its own thread.

Thanks!
Becka

Ideally, your sponsor should be your good Catholic friend who invited you to Church in the first place. She or he (again, ideally, your sponsor is the same sex as yourself, and reasonably close in age) is in good standing with the Church, and excited about helping you become a Catholic.

Their main role is to be your friend, to “walk the journey” with you, meaning that they come to meetings with you and help you with anything that may be bothering you, and also act as your advocate with the RCIA team and with the parish. They are also required to attend your Rites, and they answer questions on your behalf at each of the three Rites of RCIA.

The minimum requirements for a sponsor is that they come to the Rites, that they are over the age of 16, in good standing with the Church, and is not your spouse, parent, or child.

If you came into RCIA without knowing anyone who is Catholic, you have two possibilities during your Inquiry period. One is to try to get to know the Catholics in your parish by attending Mass and social activities, with a view to making some friends and asking someone to be your sponsor, or you can ask the RCIA team to assign you someone.

I prefer that people get their Catholic friends to be their sponsors, rather than assign someone to them who is a total stranger, but I have done in the past. It works out okay in a minimal kind of way, but not as well as having a friend at your side. But in some cases, they actually haven’t got any friends who are in good standing with the Church, so we have to find them someone.