Another Ask-A-Pagan thread

[Skadi]

I’d be interested to hear how you came to that conclusion?

The contradictory nature of the bible in places, and the fact that no accounts of Jesus’s miracles exist outside of it, save the apocrypha. That was probably the biggest thing.

 

[Randy_Carson]

The contradictory nature of the bible in places, and the fact that no accounts of Jesus’s miracles exist outside of it, save the apocrypha. That was probably the biggest thing.

Would it be accurate to say that because of the gospels, we have more historical data about Jesus than we do about almost any other historical figure from that time period?

And are these real contradictions or merely apparent contradictions that can be explained with a bit of effort?

 

[Skadi]

Thank you.

Can you explain the difference between a pagan and an agnostic or atheist?

Atheism would be the belief there is no god.

Agnosticism not knowing or caring if god exists.

Paganism is a broad blanket term (Which i use to describe Neo-Paganism and Pagan Reconstructions) for many religions, the majority of which are polytheistic. Paganism is in some ways almost an anti-atheism because of the amount of mysticism involved. In ancient times pagans in the roman empire sometimes called Christians atheists because they believed there was exclusively one god and where not open to the existence of others.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Atheism would be the belief there is no god.

Agnosticism not knowing or caring if god exists.

Paganism is a broad blanket term (Which i use to describe Neo-Paganism and Pagan Reconstructions) for many religions, the majority of which are polytheistic. Paganism is in some ways almost an anti-atheism because of the amount of mysticism involved. In ancient times pagans in the roman empire sometimes called Christians atheists because they believed there was exclusively one god and where not open to the existence of others.

Again, thank you.

So, would you say then that you, as a pagan, believe in the existence of many gods as opposed to one or no god?

 

[Skadi]

Would it be accurate to say that because of the gospels, we have more historical data about Jesus than we do about almost any other historical figure from that time period?

Than any other figure of the time period? THAT is a bold claim which I as a history major cannot agree with. While there are 4 gospels plus several apocryphal books about Jesus, they are not history books but religious texts. Thats why I dont hold them as totally accurate. I certainly dont question his existence, he was a real man, I simply dont believe he was divine. There is the possibility, as with all ancient texts written after the fact, that there are exaggerations or outright creations in them.

 

[Skadi]

Again, thank you.

So, would you say then that you, as a pagan, believe in the existence of many gods as opposed to one or no god?

Its not quite as simple as one vs many, Im a soft polytheist, i believe everything s part of a massive impersonal “God entity” made up of all life. The Gods are simply faces of it in a culturally relative context.

Throughout human history there have been innumerable dietys worshiped, but essentially all having certain common traits or falling into a particular archetype. And if there is other life in this vast universe it to will likely have at times worshiped various dietys. I think picking out one and saying “This one is real, the rest are all false” is quite a claim, and needs some serious proof.

 

[bben15]

Do you meet with other pagans for worship, or do you worship by yourself?

 

[Randy_Carson]

Than any other figure of the time period? THAT is a bold claim which I as a history major cannot agree with.

Note carefully that I actually said “almost”. I’m NOT a history major, but I assume that we have good contemporaneous biographies and histories of a few kings and emperors, etc. Still, the amount of data we do have about an obscure carpenter from Palestine is kind of impressive, don’t you agree?

While there are 4 gospels plus several apocryphal books about Jesus, they are not history books but religious texts.

Surely you can admit the possibility that they weren’t written as “religious texts” but as history for the benefit of the authors’ audiences. For example, Luke, who was a Gentile physician, began his letter to a friend, Theophilus, this way:

Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught (Luke 1:1-4).

So, wouldn’t it be more accurate that what began as a historical account BECAME a religious text based upon the audience’s response and not because of the author’s primary intent?

Thats why I dont hold them as totally accurate. I certainly dont question his existence, he was a real man, I simply dont believe he was divine.

Well, that’s a fair start. Jesus was a real man who existed at one point in history. You know that many people even deny that much, so I applaud your conclusions about the history you have studied.

However, the matter of divinity HAS come up with regard to Jesus, so, what is your opinion about him?

Was he simply an inspirational figure who gave some good teachings and was later thought to be divine by those who followed him?

Or was he a nut case who claimed to be God?

 

[Randy_Carson]

Its not quite as simple as one vs many, Im a soft polytheist, i believe everything s part of a massive impersonal “God entity” made up of all life. The Gods are simply faces of it in a culturally relative context.

Throughout human history there have been innumerable dietys worshiped, but essentially all having certain common traits or falling into a particular archetype. And if there is other life in this vast universe it to will likely have at times worshiped various dietys. I think picking out one and saying “This one is real, the rest are all false” is quite a claim, and needs some serious proof.

Interesting, Skadi.

So, what is the difference between soft polytheism and pantheism?

 

[Skadi]

Do you meet with other pagans for worship, or do you worship by yourself?

I have on occasion met with others but not regularly. I live in a very sparsely populated area, and Kindreds (which are the Germanic equivalent of a Wiccan Coven) function in some ways like family groups or clans, and can be difficult to find. But there are only 8 major days of worship in the year and nothing demanding one attend a service on them. I certainly would be glad to find a local Kindred but its not a necessity.

Some groups however like Wiccans may require membership in a group, and most Traditional Wiccans wont recognize self initiates or solitaries not already part of a coven.

So, in short, I (and quite a few pagans) worship individually, but i wouldn’t mind joining a group if i encountered one nearby.

 

[Paragon468]

I was agnostic for a while in my youth, but i definitively came to that conclusion when i was about 16.

Would you mind if I asked what your age is now, just to have some sort of timeline?

And after you left the Church, what was it that got you interested in Paganism, and how long did it take before you actually decided to become pagan?

 

[Skadi]

Note carefully that I actually said “almost”. I’m NOT a history major, but I assume that we have good contemporaneous biographies and histories of a few kings and emperors, etc. Still, the amount of data we do have about an obscure carpenter from Palestine is kind of impressive, don’t you agree?

Surely you can admit the possibility that they weren’t written as “religious texts” but as history for the benefit of the authors’ audiences. For example, Luke, who was a Gentile physician, began his letter to a friend, Theophilus, this way:

Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught (Luke 1:1-4).

So, wouldn’t it be more accurate that what began as a historical account BECAME a religious text based upon the audience’s response and not because of the author’s primary intent?

Well, that’s a fair start. Jesus was a real man who existed at one point in history. You know that many people even deny that much, so I applaud your conclusions about the history you have studied.

However, the matter of divinity HAS come up with regard to Jesus, so, what is your opinion about him?

Was he simply an inspirational figure who gave some good teachings and was later thought to be divine by those who followed him?

Or was he a nut case who claimed to be God?

All good and valid points. However, we must remember that massive amounts of information has been lost over the centuries. The reason the Gospels survive is because of their status as religious texts of the dominant religion. During the last 2000 years they have been dozens of wars, conquests, sacks, and purges that have destroyed ancient texts. For instance, Emperor Julian the Apostate’s famous apologetics masterpiece “Against the Galileans” was almost destroyed by Christian purges in the 5th or 6th century, with only portions of the first book still remaining (Ironically because they were quoted at length in the works of a Christian Bishop attempting to refute him).

We have no idea what information could have existed and sense been lost, either by chance or purposeful destruction. I know Christians believe that the holy spirit guided the establishment of church canon, but looking at it historically it seems as though it may have been more of an attempt to shun books whos content particular leaders didn’t like. The official canon became the Bible, what was left out became the Apocrypha, and looking at that creates even more contradiction about the life of Jesus.

In the end, there is just so much uncertainty around the life of Jesus that I cannot support the idea he was divine. The books written about him by early Christians conflict, the choice of the official canon of the bible is shady at best, and who knows what other works may have been destroyed as heresy by past Christians. Combine that with the tenancy of ancient authors to exaggerate, distort, misrepresent and in other ways alter stories and its just a bit to messy for me.

Personaly, I like to think he was probably a pretty nice guy, a wandering Rabbi, who wound up getting screwed over by the system. If he claimed divinity or not, I dont know, if he was actually crucified or not, I dont know. But I am convinced he was a man, mortal and all, and did not raise from the dead.

 

[Skadi]

Interesting, Skadi.

So, what is the difference between soft polytheism and pantheism?

Soft polytheism is a mix of polytheism and pantheism. It is the belief that there is a pantheistic, impersonal god, who may reveal itself or be partial made up of various personal gods. Hindus are soft polytheists.

 

[St_Stoli]

Do you personally use Rune Stones? Is there preference for one material over another (stone, glass, ceramic, wood, and the like)? Have you made them yourself?

 

[Skadi]

Would you mind if I asked what your age is now, just to have some sort of timeline?

And after you left the Church, what was it that got you interested in Paganism, and how long did it take before you actually decided to become pagan?

im 20 now. I was varying degrees of agnostic my whole childhood (I can still remember sitting at mass in 5th grade when i first realy doubted gods existence). I was agnostic sense about 8th grade but at 16 was when I definitively concluded on Jesus.

I was a pretty hard line agnostic until i was a senior in high school, then I encountered Wicca in a world religions class. I read heavily into it because I was very interested. I wound up doing that for a short time though i was never actually initiated into a coven. That realy was just a few month faze. However there were things In Wicca which i agreed with and it had been a totally new religious experience for me. I wound up becoming a Germanic pagan shortly after, when i was 18. Sense then I’ve kept up my reading and have found nothing to change my thinking.

 

[Paragon468]

I was a pretty hard line agnostic until i was a senior in high school, then I encountered Wicca in a world religions class. I read heavily into it because I was very interested. I wound up doing that for a short time though i was never actually initiated into a coven. That realy was just a few month faze. However there were things In Wicca which i agreed with and it had been a totally new religious experience for me. I wound up becoming a Germanic pagan shortly after, when i was 18. Sense then I’ve kept up my reading and have found nothing to change my thinking.

Did you ever have any encounters with other non-Christian religions, or just paganism?

 

[antonthomas]

Its been a bit sense ive seen one of these threads so I figured I would throw it up again to see if anyone has questions. I am myself a former catholic now turned Germanic Pagan, but I have a pretty broad knowledge of the whole Neo-Pagan/Reconstructionist movement.

So, if people have any questions they would like to ask or things they would like to discuss feel free to post or PM me. And if by chance there is other pagan folk out there please feel welcome to join in, paganism is a remarkably diverse group.

Here are some questions:

1. What do you really believe in? 2. do you worship a god? 3. what kind of a god, female, male, half male and half female, or half female and half male? 4. Is your god an animal or mammal. 5. Does that god of yours creates like my God? 6. Does it saves like my God. 7. Does it help like my God and all Christian God. 8. Does it have a name like our Lord; Jesus Christ the Universal King and the King of Kings? 9. Can you give a brief story about your god so I can know about it? 10. Does your god brings about peace and love like Our God us Catholic and Christians. 11. What does your god say about life; it teaching for life? 12. Does your god knows the difference between the toilet and kitchen?
   Can you answer these according to the numbers?

 

[Skadi]

Do you personally use Rune Stones? Is there preference for one material over another (stone, glass, ceramic, wood, and the like)? Have you made them yourself?

I do not personally use rune’s, however I plan on learning the actually language behind them soon. Im not so much interested in using them for fortune telling, seeing as my fate is fixed and knowing it wont change anything, but I would like to know how to write with them for the purpose of making inscriptions.

Although there is evidence to suggest runes played a powerful role in magic in ancient times, both as inscriptions and fortune telling items (Tacitus says in “Germania” that the Germans are obsessed with fortune telling) most of that knowledge has been lost to the ages. Modern styles of using the runes are based on Hellenistic, Occult, or I-Ching styles of divination. As far as I know though, stones, bones, and glass are the common things used for rune casting.

 

[Skadi]

Did you ever have any encounters with other non-Christian religions, or just paganism?

I love to travel and learn about the different cultures and places of the world, so ive studied every major religion to some degree, including Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shinto, and the works of Confucius and Lao-Tsu. I actualy had 2 Turkish Muslims as exchange students in high school and went for a few weeks to visit them in Istanbul which was very very interesting.

However, the areas where i live and go to college are both very rural and not exactly hubs of international activity, so on a day to dy basis most people I see are either Christian or atleast culturally christian.

 

[Skadi]

Here are some questions:

1. What do you really believe in? 2. do you worship a god? 3. what kind of a god, female, male, half male and half female, or half female and half male? 4. Is your god an animal or mammal. 5. Does that god of yours creates like my God? 6. Does it saves like my God. 7. Does it help like my God and all Christian God. 8. Does it have a name like our Lord; Jesus Christ the Universal King and the King of Kings? 9. Can you give a brief story about your god so I can know about it? 10. Does your god brings about peace and love like Our God us Catholic and Christians. 11. What does your god say about life; it teaching for life? 12. Does your god knows the difference between the toilet and kitchen?
   Can you answer these according to the numbers?

1. I am but a small part of an unfathomably complex reality which I can hardly begin to understand, and as such must simply do my best to be a good and honorable person and a credit to my ancestors.
2. Yes, many.
3. The Aesir are a tribe, there are many of them, both male and female. There is also another tribe called the Vanir.
4. The gods are depicted like men, but they are spiritual beings and able to assume many forms if they please.
5. I personally adhere to the big bang theory, but even in the allegorical myths the gods did not create the universe but came into being shortly afterwards. They can create if they like however.
6. In my religion there is no original sin and as such nothing to be saved from. But those who are worthy may join the gods in Valhalla another hall of the gods.
7. Yes, if they see fit.

8.Yes, many, Including Odin/Woden, Frig, Thor/Donnar, Njord, Freja, Freyr, Loki, Heimdal, Tyr/Tywaz, Ullr, Sif, Hel, and Skadi.

I have special devotion to Ullr, God of winter, the hunt, and victory, aswell as Skadi who is also a hunting/winter goddess and Tyr who is god of justice, honor, and single combat. My surname name actually has an old linguistic connection to Tyr.
Once Loki, God of Mischief, fathered a child who took the form of a huge ravenous wolf, Fenrir. The gods were fearful of it, with only Tyr being brave enough to feed the beast. Eventually they Gods grew so fearful of the beast that they decided to bind it. However all the chains constructed by the Dwarfs could not hold hold it. Finally the Dwarfs created a chain from six things which cannot be found,
-The sound of a cat’s footfall
-The beard of a woman
-The roots of a mountain
-The patience of a bear
-The breath of a fish
-The spittle of a bird
Fenrir believed he would easily break the chain, but would not allow himself to be bound without assurance that he was not being tricked, and asked that one god place their arm in his mouth. Only Tyr was brave enough, and when Fenrir found himself bound he clamped down and bit off the sword arm of Tyr. Fenrir will remain chained untill Ragnarok, the final battle, when he will break free, kill Odin, and devour the sun.

The point of the story is that Tyr sacrificed his sword arm to save essentially all of existence.

1. The gods are in no way averse to war or violence.
2. That we should live upright, honorable lives. There are no direct commandments from the gods to men, only examples and allegory.
3. Yes they do.