Another Atheist Victory Against America

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Mount Soledad
I GREW UP in San Diego, in a cookie-cutter suburban tract on the southern slope of Mount Soledad.

Anyone who has ever been to San Diego would immediately recognize this mountain–it is one of the most prominent natural features in the city, whose summit can be seen for miles in every direction. Mount Soledad rises steeply from the Pacific Ocean, marking a natural boundary between the ritzy community of La Jolla on the north flank, and the more laid back Pacific Beach and Mission Bay neighborhoods to the south.

Frequent visitors from Los Angeles and points north know that they’ve “arrived” in San Diego when they drive past Mount Soledad’s steep eastern slope on Interstate 5. You know the one; it’s the mountain with the big white cross on top.

But not for much longer.

The Mount Soledad cross must go, the San Diego City Council said yesterday. The 16-year saga of whether the cross would stay on public land in La Jolla came to an emotional conclusion last night as the council voted 5-3 to reject a last-ditch effort to keep it in place.
I don’t claim to be a legal scholar. But I don’t understand why this cross, which was erected over 50 years ago as the centerpiece of a veterans’ memorial, is such a serious affront to our civil rights that it must be removed from public land.

I seriously doubt that anybody driving by on the freeway has ever felt compelled, upon seeing this cross, to become a practicing Christian. I lived “down the hill” from this landmark for the first eight years of my life, and I can testify that it had absolutely zero impact on our family’s attendance at church. Indeed, on any given Sunday, we were much more likely to be praying to the Holy Trinity of Fouts, Joiner, and Winslow, than the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Nevertheless, a small group of San Diegans, led by atheist activist Philip Paulson, has been trying since 1989 to get this offensive symbol removed from public land. And yesterday, after almost sixteen years of legal wrangling, the San Diego City Council finally folded—just like they did when the ACLU pressured them to evict the Boy Scouts from Balboa Park.

This saddens me.

That cross isn’t threatening anyone. To an atheist, it is just an inanimate object. But to me, it is a landmark. As a youth, I rode my bike around that cross. As a teenager, I rested at the foot of the memorial after a strenuous conditioning run with my high school track team. As a young man, I brought my bride to see the memorial when we moved here after our wedding. The location of that cross is noted on nautical charts used by the Navy—you can see it from several miles out to sea.

Now that Paulson has achieved this victory, what other religious symbols will he have removed from public land?

Perhaps the cross on the statue of Portuguese explorer Juan Rodríguez Cabrillo, who discovered San Diego Bay in 1542? Or how about the many crosses that can be found in the Spanish Colonial architecture around Balboa Park?

Shall we remove the cross that stands on the site of the San Diego Presidio, which was erected in 1920 using stones salvaged from the ruins of the original structure?

What about the Yokohama Friendship Bell at Shelter Island—or do Shinto symbols get a pass? There are also several Buddhist and Shinto elements incorporated into the Japanese Friendship Garden in Balboa Park. That’s public land, too.

Shall we demolish the historic San Diego Mission itself?

While we’re at it, why don’t we just change the name of the city? San Diego, after all, was named after the Catholic Saint Didacus of Alcala. Isn’t our city’s very name a violation of the establishment clause?

Just how far do we have to go, to protect these poor atheists from being offended?

How much of our heritage must we erase?
 
I am sure that if the people in the San Diego area really cared and raised their collective voices the cross would be spared.

My guess is the interest is not there.
 
There is nothing more diabolical than a predator masquerading as a victim.

The atheists doing this want to root out each and every vestige of Christian symbolism from the public square. They take advantage of the tolerance afforded them by the very cultrue they want to eradicate, all under the guise of ‘rights’ and ‘diversity’.

We Christians need to stand up and say enough is enough.
 
I recall something about so-called outrage amongst people when the Taliban in Afghanistan, if I’m not mistaken, blew up the Buddhist monuments carved into the mountain. Though a bit crude, they were said to be the largest in the world and quite impressive to look at.

They did it in the name of Islam. Today Christian monuments around the US and elsewhere are being taken down (perhaps carefully and respectfully) in the name of secularism and atheistic philosophy.

Ah… bitter irony…
 
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jdnation:
I recall something about so-called outrage amongst people when the Taliban in Afghanistan, if I’m not mistaken, blew up the Buddhist monuments carved into the mountain. Though a bit crude, they were said to be the largest in the world and quite impressive to look at.

They did it in the name of Islam. Today Christian monuments around the US and elsewhere are being taken down (perhaps carefully and respectfully) in the name of secularism and atheistic philosophy.

Ah… bitter irony…
You are right on that one. Great point!

Lisa N
 
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swampfox:
How much of our heritage must we erase?
We’'ve been through the “icon smashers” before and it always ends up the same; later generations wonder what was wrong with their mental set and lament the losses – and not too long ago we called people savages because they blew up the centuries old Buddha statues …some things never change.

We’re beginning to get like old Russia; first they tried to destroy the past Russian landmarks and substituted statues of the “party faithful” everywhere - now they tear down the “party faithful” posters and statues and heaven knows what’s next.
 
“Think for a moment, and ask yourself if the business of the world could be carried on without the figure of the cross. The sea cannot be crossed unless this sign of victory - the mast - remains unharmed. Without it there is no ploughing: neither diggers nor mechanics can do their work without tools of this shape. The human figure is distinguished from that of brute beasts solely by having an upright posture and the ability to extend the arms; and also by the nose through which the creature gets his breath, which is set at right angles to the brow, and displays just the shape of the cross. It was said through the prophet, ‘The breath before our face is the Lord Christ’. And the standards in use among you display the power of this figure (I mean the legionary ensigns and trophy-poles which accompany your processions everywhere as symbols of power and dominion), though you are unconscious of the fact: and you set up the images of deceased emperors on such a figure, and call them ‘gods’ in the inscriptions.”

-Justin Martyr, Apologia I, lv
 
swampfox said:
lt-smash.us/
Mount Soledad
I GREW UP in San Diego, in a cookie-cutter suburban tract on the southern slope of Mount Soledad.

Anyone who has ever been to San Diego would immediately recognize this mountain–it is one of the most prominent natural features in the city, whose summit can be seen for miles in every direction. Mount Soledad rises steeply from the Pacific Ocean, marking a natural boundary between the ritzy community of La Jolla on the north flank, and the more laid back Pacific Beach and Mission Bay neighborhoods to the south.

Frequent visitors from Los Angeles and points north know that they’ve “arrived” in San Diego when they drive past Mount Soledad’s steep eastern slope on Interstate 5. You know the one; it’s the mountain with the big white cross on top.

But not for much longer.

The Mount Soledad cross must go, the San Diego City Council said yesterday. The 16-year saga of whether the cross would stay on public land in La Jolla came to an emotional conclusion last night as the council voted 5-3 to reject a last-ditch effort to keep it in place.
I don’t claim to be a legal scholar. But I don’t understand why this cross, which was erected over 50 years ago as the centerpiece of a veterans’ memorial, is such a serious affront to our civil rights that it must be removed from public land.

I seriously doubt that anybody driving by on the freeway has ever felt compelled, upon seeing this cross, to become a practicing Christian. I lived “down the hill” from this landmark for the first eight years of my life, and I can testify that it had absolutely zero impact on our family’s attendance at church. Indeed, on any given Sunday, we were much more likely to be praying to the Holy Trinity of Fouts, Joiner, and Winslow, than the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Nevertheless, a small group of San Diegans, led by atheist activist Philip Paulson, has been trying since 1989 to get this offensive symbol removed from public land. And yesterday, after almost sixteen years of legal wrangling, the San Diego City Council finally folded—just like they did when the ACLU pressured them to evict the Boy Scouts from Balboa Park.

This saddens me.

That cross isn’t threatening anyone. To an atheist, it is just an inanimate object. But to me, it is a landmark. As a youth, I rode my bike around that cross. As a teenager, I rested at the foot of the memorial after a strenuous conditioning run with my high school track team. As a young man, I brought my bride to see the memorial when we moved here after our wedding. The location of that cross is noted on nautical charts used by the Navy—you can see it from several miles out to sea.

Now that Paulson has achieved this victory, what other religious symbols will he have removed from public land?

Perhaps the cross on the statue of Portuguese explorer Juan Rodríguez Cabrillo, who discovered San Diego Bay in 1542? Or how about the many crosses that can be found in the Spanish Colonial architecture around Balboa Park?

Shall we remove the cross that stands on the site of the San Diego Presidio, which was erected in 1920 using stones salvaged from the ruins of the original structure?

What about the Yokohama Friendship Bell at Shelter Island—or do Shinto symbols get a pass? There are also several Buddhist and Shinto elements incorporated into the Japanese Friendship Garden in Balboa Park. That’s public land, too.

Shall we demolish the historic San Diego Mission itself?

While we’re at it, why don’t we just change the name of the city? San Diego, after all, was named after the Catholic Saint Didacus of Alcala. Isn’t our city’s very name a violation of the establishment clause?

Just how far do we have to go, to protect these poor atheists from being offended?

How much of our heritage must we erase?

Yeah, & change the names of dozens of cities in California because they are cities named after Catholic saints & are in Spanish. I for one see a bit of racism in all this, not just anti-religion.

Soon these godless vampires that wish to suck holiness from a counrty that was built with the intentions of spreading the Word of God will have to face the God which they try to destroy & I for one would like to see them rejected by God just as they reject Him.
 
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swampfox:
I don’t claim to be a legal scholar. But I don’t understand why this cross, which was erected over 50 years ago as the centerpiece of a veterans’ memorial, is such a serious affront to our civil rights that it must be removed from public land.
Then people wonder why disaster happens, some sure do want to put the Lord God to the test !

And when it comes, as it surely will, then they’ll blame God,------- fickle people.:tsktsk: if we remove the light, then there is only darkness left, even a 3 year old could understand that.
 
I often wonder whenever the atheists demand that religious symbols be removed from public property, just how much of that public property belongs to them? We all pay taxes and we own any public property as much as the next guy. The athiests however are claiming the entire properties as exclusively belonging to themselves only. They have assumed full rights to dictate how it should be used/or not used. Talk about the rest of the public property owners’ civil rights being swept under the rug.
 
Most non-Christian symbols seem to be left alone or even promoted while Christian symbols are removed one after another. Talk about unequal rights :mad:
 
The way I see it, EVERYONE has a belief. Some belief in God and some belief in ‘no’ God. ‘No God’ is a belief for those atheists out there whether they admit it or not; it’s simply a mind game they playing on us Christians. Bottom line, there’s a 2 side to all this. Why must we lose to the other side!! If we don’t impose it on them, they will impose it on us. Simple as that! It’s a free country isn’t it. We Christians shouldn’t have to back down to these atheists. If Christians don’t speak up, soon we’ll be seeing a country with no sign of Christianity…but only atheism! Tolerant my butt!:mad:
 
Hope lights up the tunnel—the governor, independent groups and just the “people” are now in the fray-- several initiatives are being proposed – the city council has provided three members supporting the fight and it appears that since there is a placque memorializing servicemen many are incensed that this landmark is being removed. All is not over until it’s over…
 
All that I see lost here is a sense of cultural heritage, sense of a “landmark.” The physical cross is not the focus people, why do we waiste our energy perserving the physical cross… The non-believers do not believe because WE act like nothing happened on the Cross. Its not the devil at work, its the fact that we Christians get too hung up on stuff like this, meanwhile acting like the Cross means nothing in our own personal lives…in our Church…in our community.

I am a Catholic who believes in the seperation of Church and State.
 
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franktriskit:
All that I see lost here is a sense of cultural heritage, sense of a “landmark.” The physical cross is not the focus people, why do we waiste our energy perserving the physical cross… The non-believers do not believe because WE act like nothing happened on the Cross. Its not the devil at work, its the fact that we Christians get too hung up on stuff like this, meanwhile acting like the Cross means nothing in our own personal lives…in our Church…in our community.

I am a Catholic who believes in the seperation of Church and State.
Tell me the place in the Constitution where you can find the phrase “separation of Church and State”? The phrase was coined by Justice Hugo Black, a former member of the KKK. The Constitution says “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof” and this has always meant that Congress was prohibited from establishing a national religious denomination, that Congress could not require that all Americans become Catholics, Anglicans, or members of any other denomination. Sloppy thinking makes sloppy Catholicism.
 
Again… absence of Church in the State does not = evil.

A symbol of Church on State property = gray area.

State deciding to remove symbol of Church = ok.

My thinking does not = sloppy Catholism
 
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franktriskit:
All that I see lost here is a sense of cultural heritage, sense of a “landmark.” The physical cross is not the focus people, why do we waiste our energy perserving the physical cross… The non-believers do not believe because WE act like nothing happened on the Cross. Its not the devil at work, its the fact that we Christians get too hung up on stuff like this, meanwhile acting like the Cross means nothing in our own personal lives…in our Church…in our community.

I am a Catholic who believes in the seperation of Church and State.
I am too and the last I heard no one was attempting to impose Catholicism as the “state religion” so I think the American public is safe.

As the pope has stressed over and over and more times than I can count, the visible expressions of faith are cultural, iconic and part of our tradition, our history and there is no reason to remove them from the public eye or the public mention.
 
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franktriskit:
All that I see lost here is a sense of cultural heritage, sense of a “landmark.” The physical cross is not the focus people, why do we waiste our energy perserving the physical cross…
It’s not a wast of energy. Symbols like the cross (or the flag, or the Statue of Liberty, or the Washington Munument) are visible, physical signs of our belief. Humans need this. I would argue tha patriotism would be much harder without such symbols. Similarly with the Church. Take away the crucifixes, the tabernacle, the priestly vestments, the Statues, etc. and you make faith harder.
 
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franktriskit:
Again… absence of Church in the State does not = evil.

A symbol of Church on State property = gray area.

State deciding to remove symbol of Church = ok.

My thinking does not = sloppy Catholism
The prohibition of religion or religious symbols from the public realm is not in the US Constitution. You fail to recognize the evil behind the attempt to rid the American countryside of symbols of Christ. This site in San Diego is a memorial, so according to your line of thinking or shall I say, Hugo Black’s line, you would deny the dead in Arlington and their families the right to have their graves memorialized with crosses. This is a consequence of sloppy thinking. By the way, do you have a problem with the names of California cities named after various saints? If not, why not?
 
Bill Connors:
We all pay taxes and we own any public property as much as the next guy. The athiests however are claiming the entire properties as exclusively belonging to themselves only. They have assumed full rights to dictate how it should be used/or not used. Talk about the rest of the public property owners’ civil rights being swept under the rug.
Sad, because God doesn’t pay taxes, He only pays with His life !!!
 
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