Another birth control question...

[Windfish]

My mother is a pious person, a loving and loyal Catholic who is the rock of our family. She is kind, sweet, tender, and, above else, close to God. She bore four children, all of them raised in the Church and as close to God as she.

Now, I tell you this because I want you to know a bit about her character before I tell you that she received a, uh, permanent form of birth control after her fourth child. She consulted with a priest before she received the operation, and he gave her his blessing. She says that health risks were a factor (and this is not an exaggeration, she had to be operated on several times after her pregnancies because of severe veracose veins, among other things), but she also says that, in retrospect, those risks may not have been enough justification for the operation (i.e., she’s doubting her choice and feeling guilt) but used it anyway so as not to give birth to more children…

For me, this is a gray area. This is a woman of God. She is the reason I am delving into my faith more seriously and why I’m on this board.

So what do you think? Given that she is an exemplary woman of God in every other respect and the mother of four bright and successful children, I certainly want to give her the benefit of the doubt. But I also know it’s not up to me.

 

[edwest2]

I think the priest involved is the best person to answer your questions.

God bless,
Ed

 

[mark_a]

but she also says that, in retrospect, those risks may not have been enough justification for the operation (i.e., she’s doubting her choice and feeling guilt) but used it anyway so as not to give birth to more children…

This really isn’t something she would necessarily need to tell you.

So it sounds to me as though she’s expressing regret over her decision to have the operation so that her children can learn from her mistake.

That takes a lot of courage.

God bless her.

 

[Julianna]

Does she know you are posting this on a public message board that leans…a bit…a tad…to the right…? If she reads this…how will she feel? She consulted her priest…albeit a “private” matter between them and God. Perhaps it should be left there.

 

[choy]

if an operation has the intention of preventing diseases or serious medical condition and the unintended consequence is infertility, then it is acceptable

but constult a priest for a better answer. there is a balance of intent and effect here

 

[LilyM]

It is possible for people who are sincere, good and pious to yet make mistakes and even sin. In fact it’s a given that even sincere, good and pious people DO make mistakes, and sin.

The Apostles provide the prime example - they were not without their mistakes and even their sinfulness even after Pentecost. As St Peter so aptly put it, even the just man falls seven times a day. And St Paul, one of the most devout and blessed servants of Christ, nonetheless still calls himself chief among sinners.

Of course it’s fine to give your mother the benefit of the doubt - you certainly don’t know what was in her mind, heart and soul, or that of this priest, at the time. That being said, if she is NOW unsure about what she did, she certainly should unburden her soul in confession, which will give her peace of mind either way.

 

[Windfish]

Does she know you are posting this on a public message board that leans…a bit…a tad…to the right…? If she reads this…how will she feel? She consulted her priest…albeit a “private” matter between them and God. Perhaps it should be left there.

I didn’t even think about that. I think you’re right, I should have been more thoughtful.

 

[1ke]

For me, this is a gray area. This is a woman of God. She is the reason I am delving into my faith more seriously and why I’m on this board.

So what do you think? Given that she is an exemplary woman of God in every other respect and the mother of four bright and successful children, I certainly want to give her the benefit of the doubt. But I also know it’s not up to me.

It is not a “gray area.” The Church’s teaching is quite clear, contraception and sterilization are intrinsically evil and grave matter.

No priest on earth could give her “permission” to sterilize herself. She was gravely mislead by a priest who was either misinformed or purposely violating Church teaching.

God has given your mother the grace of a bothered conscience. She can receive absolution in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Urge her to go.

 

[1ke]

Does she know you are posting this on a public message board that leans…a bit…a tad…to the right…?

Church teaching is clear. There is no way to “lean” on such a matter.

If she reads this…how will she feel? She consulted her priest…albeit a “private” matter between them and God. Perhaps it should be left there.

Um… hello… anonymous. A name of “windfish” and no location or other identifying information is hardly a breach of confidence.

 

[Julianna]

It is not a “gray area.” The Church’s teaching is quite clear, contraception and sterilization are intrinsically evil and grave matter.

No priest on earth could give her “permission” to sterilize herself. She was gravely mislead by a priest who was either misinformed or purposely violating Church teaching.

God has given your mother the grace of a bothered conscience. She can receive absolution in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Urge her to go.

What a little ray of sunshine you are. Perhaps “permission” was not the right word. How do you know what was said between this woman and her priest. You don’t.

You also don’t see the bigger picture. You see “sin” where ever you go. How sad for you.

The child of this woman is in pain for her mother. “Grace of a bothered conscience”?

As for the privacy…the OP stated that her mother is a Godly woman and perhaps she would seek out CAF for compassion…

Ridicule, and forcasting of doom and gloom, perpetuating guilt her child believes she is feeling…isn’t helpful nor charitable.

 

[bnbkaine]

Windfish-

Your mother was steered incorrectly by her priest if he “gave his blessing” on an operation to inhibit conception. The chance of health problems for the mother is not a reason to contracept, but it is a valid reason to use NFP.

I had a tubal back in my wild, heathen days and I regret that decision. I have gone to confession and had been absolved and I know that God doesn’t hold it against me. Encourage your mother to go to confession and allow the grace of that sacrament to help her with her remorse. Beyond that though, it really isn’t any of your business. (No offense intended, I promise.)

 

[floresco]

You also don’t see the bigger picture. You see “sin” where ever you go. How sad for you.

The child of this woman is in pain for her mother. “Grace of a bothered conscience”?

As for the privacy…the OP stated that her mother is a Godly woman and perhaps she would seek out CAF for compassion…

Ridicule, and forcasting of doom and gloom, perpetuating guilt her child believes she is feeling…isn’t helpful nor charitable.

Lying about Church teaching would be neither charitable nor helpful. The posts by 1ke are accurately describing what the Church teaches.

If the OP’s mother was given bad advice by a priest, it is possible, even likely she has reduced culpability. This does not change that she committed an act that is objectively sinful. This is not a message of gloom and doom because we have access to God’s forgiveness in the Sacrament of Confession.

The most charitable and helpful comment that it is possible to make is to encourage this woman to go to Confession.

 

[Rence]

This isn’t the first time I’m hearing that a priest gave dispensation for tubal ligation. I know of a woman who was helped financially by the parish church because the family had no money but tried to fulfil their Catholic obligation to continue having children, and after she had her 8th child, the pastor told her that she had “special dispensation” for a tubal ligation. I heard this from my clinical instructor, and she swears this is what happeend.

Despite how “bad” some folks here have judged my family priests over things that have told me, even my “bad” priests as labeled here, wouldn’t have told a woman that. But I guess it happens more often than we think.

However, that first paragraph up there is the extent of my knowledge. Who knows what the woman and the pastor talked about? So really, it’s not up to us to judge priests when they discuss things with parishioners in confidence.

It really doesn’t matter in this case, does it? Both women had tubal ligations and it’s done. The only thing they can do is get absolution and move on with their lives. If they trusted their priest and this was the advice they were given, and they didn’t know the priest couldn’t give them “special dispensation” then it’s not their sin.

 

[gardenswithkids]

My mother is a pious person, a loving and loyal Catholic who is the rock of our family. She is kind, sweet, tender, and, above else, close to God. She bore four children, all of them raised in the Church and as close to God as she.

Now, I tell you this because I want you to know a bit about her character before I tell you that she received a, uh, permanent form of birth control after her fourth child. She consulted with a priest before she received the operation, and he gave her his blessing. She says that health risks were a factor (and this is not an exaggeration, she had to be operated on several times after her pregnancies because of severe veracose veins, among other things), but she also says that, in retrospect, those risks may not have been enough justification for the operation (i.e., she’s doubting her choice and feeling guilt) but used it anyway so as not to give birth to more children…

For me, this is a gray area. This is a woman of God. She is the reason I am delving into my faith more seriously and why I’m on this board.

So what do you think? Given that she is an exemplary woman of God in every other respect and the mother of four bright and successful children, I certainly want to give her the benefit of the doubt. But I also know it’s not up to me.

Yes, give her the benefit of the doubt. You write she is a woman of God and very pious. Guess what? Women of God sometimes sin. Sometimes we follow bad advice–and sometimes that bad advice comes for a priest whom we trusted. Sometimes we get scared or weak. And very often we grow in our faith and trust in God more as we get older. We can reflect on our past actions and wonder, “Did I do the right thing?” We can have regrets.

You write she’s doubting her choice and feels guilt. Yep. That sounds to me like something a woman of God would do. I know several very lovely Catholics who have grown in their faith to the point of regreting past sterilizations. Some have had their sterilizations reversed; others have not.

If your mother has been to Confession over this, the sin of her sterilization is forgiven. Even if she has not confessed it, her culpability may be diminished since she acted on counsel of a priest. I’d guess that she has already confessed it. Give her the benefit of the doubt, but ask her if you want that re-assurance since she’s talking to you about it.

 

[rskempf]

Tubal ligation and contaception by the pill are the current forms of taking the apple from the tree in the middle of the garden, as in Genesis.

We still fall, but we can now repent and gain eternal life. You have to ask yourself, do I have the humility needed to direct my will to do what is needed.

Do you?

 

[cmscms]

First of all, since you were vague in your descriprition of your mother, I don’t think you did anything from for posting.

I must admit though, I find it odd that she told you about it. But then again, perhaps she has a very close relationship with you.

Now, I am going to point out something and I hope it is received the right way. I will assume that your mother is now pass her child bearing years. It makes sense she regrets it now. No longer being able to have chlidren can be a hard thing for some women to accept.

Also, time heals all wounds. I am sure she no longer feels the same fear she felt years ago when another pregnancy could mean serious health issues. It is really easy to speak years later, but when you are in the situation it is a lot harder to act.

I feel like you mother is being too hard on herself. I am sure at the time if a trusted priest told her it was OK, God will have compassion for her.

And as many have already all she needs to do is go to confession. Please tell your mom to not be so hard on herself

CM

 

[choy]

It is not a “gray area.” The Church’s teaching is quite clear, contraception and sterilization are intrinsically evil and grave matter.

No priest on earth could give her “permission” to sterilize herself. She was gravely mislead by a priest who was either misinformed or purposely violating Church teaching.

God has given your mother the grace of a bothered conscience. She can receive absolution in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Urge her to go.

a bit of a textbook answer that doesn’t take into consideration the circumstances

like i mentioned, if the intention is to treat a disease or medical condition, and the consequence is contraception, then it is acceptable

if a woman has ovarian cancer and you would need to remove the ovaries, then it is perfectly fine with the Church. the woman isn’t having her ovaries removed because she wants to prevent having babies, its because they need to take the cancer out. it just so happens she loses the ability to have babies.

now the OP didn’t specify whats the circumstance surrounding the surgery/operation. perhaps there is a medical condition to be treated and this became a consequence. if that is the case then indeed it is fine, but still consult the priest and present all evidence to the priest so he can weigh it and conclusively say if its acceptable or not

 

[Seatuck]

a bit of a textbook answer that doesn’t take into consideration the circumstances

like i mentioned, if the intention is to treat a disease or medical condition, and the consequence is contraception, then it is acceptable

if a woman has ovarian cancer and you would need to remove the ovaries, then it is perfectly fine with the Church. the woman isn’t having her ovaries removed because she wants to prevent having babies, its because they need to take the cancer out. it just so happens she loses the ability to have babies.

now the OP didn’t specify whats the circumstance surrounding the surgery/operation. perhaps there is a medical condition to be treated and this became a consequence. if that is the case then indeed it is fine, but still consult the priest and present all evidence to the priest so he can weigh it and conclusively say if its acceptable or not

The op mentions varicose veins. No method of sterilization directly varicose veins. Removing of the ovaries or uterus due to cancer or other disease is not prevention. They are treatments of actual diseases and the surgery is on the effected body part.

I agree with 1ke. This pious woman has reached a state of contrition about this sterilization and should be encouraged to bring it to confession and leave there in a state of peace about it. It seems she was mislead or misunderstood what she was told by her priest. Time to put it all to rest especially as God has given her the grace to know better now.

Windfish, you don’t have to have any harsh judgment of your Mother who seems to be a good woman. Perhaps God is giving you the opportunity to give here the support she needs to do the right thing at this time when she didn’t have the correct support at the other time when she made this decision.

 

[Seatuck]

No method of sterilization directly varicose veins.

I meant no method of sterilization treats varicose veins.

 

[Socio_Momma]

a bit of a textbook answer that doesn’t take into consideration the circumstances

like i mentioned, if the intention is to treat a disease or medical condition, and the consequence is contraception, then it is acceptable

if a woman has ovarian cancer and you would need to remove the ovaries, then it is perfectly fine with the Church. the woman isn’t having her ovaries removed because she wants to prevent having babies, its because they need to take the cancer out. it just so happens she loses the ability to have babies.

now the OP didn’t specify whats the circumstance surrounding the surgery/operation. perhaps there is a medical condition to be treated and this became a consequence. if that is the case then indeed it is fine, but still consult the priest and present all evidence to the priest so he can weigh it and conclusively say if its acceptable or not

Tubal ligations are not permissible to treat medical conditions. This is because they do not treat medical conditions, instead they have the primary purpose of being a contraceptive (preventing pregnancy). Tubal ligations may be done over concern of possible complications in the future they don’t treat existing medical conditions or complications; however, they have a host of complications that many women deal with. However, NFP can be used in this circumstances along with treating the actual medical condition if possible.

If an organ is diseased or damaged, then simply doing a procedure that could cause more complications to the organ isn’t advised (higher risk for bleeding & ectopic pregnancies for example). Instead a woman could have a hysterectomy partial or full or remove the ovaries if it treats the medical condition (e.g. damaged or diseased organs, excessive bleeding etc…), even if the secondary effect limits or removes fertility, as the primary purpose & effect is not contraceptive but to treat a medical condition (double principle effect).

The Vatican has this instruction on tubal ligation for preventative medical conditions (not permitted) & distinguishes between the removal of a diseased organ & tubal ligation (why one is OK & the other is not):

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_31071994_uterine-isolation_en.html

For the original poster, it sounds like your Mom wasn’t sure what to do & got some incorrect advice from her Priest on what was acceptable. If she hasn’t already, she should seek out the Sacrament of Reconciliation & let God help her in this matter. Support her & love her as she moves toward reconciling this matter with God through His Mercy.