Another day another victim in UK

[SaintJude]

https://www.christian.org.uk/news/election-candidate-deselected-by-lib-dems-over-pro-life-and-pro-marriage-views/

Seriously if you are not pro gay marriage and abortion you are hounded out and vilified by toxic ideologues

#moderndaywithchhunt

 

[SeanF1989]

I am dreading the day the government takes it a step further and tries to suppress the churches.

 

[ATraveller]

In a statement, Godsiff said: “I have always put the interests of my constituents above everything else and I don’t succumb to threats. I have supported the rights of parents to have a say, not a veto, over how the most sensitive aspects of the Equality Act are taught to young children.”

He said that “a small intolerant vindictive group within the LGBT community” had carried out a “vicious and vindictive campaign of character assassination against me using social media and misinformation to stir up a witch-hunt”.

Ex-Labour MP to run as independent after being dropped over LGBT row | Birmingham | The Guardian

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

I am dreading the day the government takes it a step further and tries to suppress the churches.

Well in the case of the Anglican Church, the British government owns them. They are the government. And they have already folded on all these questions. It’s over already.

 

[PickyPicky]

Well in the case of the Anglican Church, the British government owns them.

That, of course, is not the case.

 

[SaintJude]

I am in the UK. Do you agree with the de-selections. Do you seriously deny any discrimination against Christians?

 

[PickyPicky]

I see no problem with a political party declining to support a candidate whose views differ from those of the party concerned.

 

[PickyPicky]

Do you seriously deny any discrimination against Christians

I think claims that the poor old Christians are the victims of discrimination are pretty rich when you consider for how long UK society has discriminated in favour of Christians, and indeed the extent to which it still does.

 

[SaintJude]

So effectively the morals of swathes of the population and all monotheistic faiths should not be reflected in two of the three main Uk parties? Vis a vis gay marriage and abortion

 

[PickyPicky]

So effectively the morals of swathes of the population and all monotheistic faiths should not be reflected in two of the three main Uk parties? Vis a vis gay marriage and abortion

Stand for election.

 

[Londoner]

Surely it’s up to the Liberal Democrats to choose who should run as their candidate. If he has views that are inconsistent with the values of the party I don’t see why the party can’t deselect him. I assume the BNP (if they still stand candidates at elections) is entitled to deselect candidates who are insufficiently racist.

Church, the British government owns them.

The Church of England is in no way owned by the government. It is self-governing through the General Synod, whose legislation is passed through both houses of Parliament and given royal assent. The Church has sometimes been strongly critical of the government, e.g. Bishop Bell over the Allied bombing of Germany and Archbishop Runcie over the Falklands.

 

[SaintJude]

I just find it sad that Labour and Lib Dem’s are no longer welcoming place for Catholic’s and other Christians. Catholic remainers clearly have no viable option with their vote. Best for them to abstain

 

[Kaninchen]

Seriously if you are not pro gay marriage and abortion you are hounded out and vilified by toxic ideologues

Lots of toxic ideologues around of all persuasions.

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

That, of course, is not the case.

The Church of England is in no way owned by the government. It is self-governing through the General Synod, whose legislation is passed through both houses of Parliament and given royal assent. The Church has sometimes been strongly critical of the government, e.g. Bishop Bell over the Allied bombing of Germany and Archbishop Runcie over the Falklands.

You are being obtuse and taking “owned by” strictly literally. The Church of England is part of the state apparatus. That is what a national church is. The Monarch is it’s head, just as she is the head of the government. It’s bishops sit in Parliament. The monarch appoints bishops and archbishops. It receives partial funding from the government. And as you noted, legislation for the church is passed through Parliament. It is entwined into the state, and purposefully so. So if you want to quibble about the word “owned”, fine. But don’t pretend the Church of England is independent from the state. It is not.

 

[PickyPicky]

You are being obtuse and taking “owned by” strictly literally.

Sorry to be obtuse. I thought by “owned” you meant “owned”.

The monarch appoints bishops and archbishops

In theory. In practice bishops and archbishops are chosen by church commissions.

It receives partial funding from the government

I’m no expert on the arcane subject of church finances, but my understanding is that the government assists with the cost of maintaining historic church buildings.

It is entwined into the state, and purposefully so

Most certainly.

But what did you mean by this?

And they have already folded on all these questions. It’s over already.

 

[Londoner]

The Monarch is it’s head, just as she is the head of the government.

The monarch is the supreme governor of the Church of England. The government is Her Majesty’s Government. The Queen is a constituent part of Parliament. Prisons are Her Majesty’s prisons. Passports are issued in the name of Her Britannic Majesty. All of these things are separate functions of the monarch. The fact that something is placed under the power of the monarch does not mean that it is placed under the control of the government. As we have seen recently, Parliament and the judiciary are independent of the government, and the government is the subordinate branch of government (insofar as the British constitution recognises “branches” of government). The Church of England is under the jurisdiction of Parliament and the judiciary, but it is not under the jurisdiction of the government, with the exception of a small number of powers notionally within the remit of the prime minister.

It’s bishops sit in Parliament.

Which means that the bishops are actually placed above the government, constitutionally, since the government is subordinate to Parliament.

The monarch appoints bishops and archbishops.

Senior clergy appointments are handled by a commission whose composition places their decisions firmly in the hands of the Church. The prime minister recommends the appointment of whoever the Church chooses.

It receives partial funding from the government.

Not true. The only funding that the Church of England receives from the government is help with the cost of maintaining listed places of worship. This funding is equally accessible to all denominations and religions provided they have buildings worth maintaining at public expense.

legislation for the church is passed through Parliament.

This is essentially a rubber-stamping exercise. I believe it’s been more than 30 years now since a Measure faced any kind of opposition in Parliament (and even then it passed on a second attempt). The passage of General Synod legislation through Parliament is now essentially a technicality.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

Why be in a party if you won’t support its main policies?

 

[Annie]

The fact that something is placed under the power of the monarch does not mean that it is placed under the control of the government. As we have seen recently, Parliament and the judiciary are independent of the government, and the government is the subordinate branch of government

Just wanted to mention that the idea of government in the US differs from that in the UK. We would say administration for what you call government, as I understand it. And all the functions of state administration are what we in the US call government.

 

[PickyPicky]

Just wanted to mention that the idea of government in the US differs from that in the UK. We would say administration for what you call government, as I understand it. And all the functions of state administration are what we in the US call government

Yep, I think that’s right. The one that surprises us particularly in the UK is the US inclusion of the judiciary in what you call the government. We’ve tripped over this linguistic difference before, while discussing the health topic.

 

[PickyPicky]

The only funding that the Church of England receives from the government is help with the cost of maintaining listed places of worship.

Perhaps it should be pointed out that “listed” in this context means the building appears on the list of buildings of special architectural or historic interest, a list maintained by the organisation called Historic England. I don’t know how this practice is mirrored in the US.