Another Day for Isalm

[Damascus]

there are over a billion people who find value in the islamic faith. Many of these people give to charities, help their neighobrs, feed the orphans, clothe the naked. More than one billion muslims prayed to God this week without killing anyone or burning anything to the ground.

Today, millions and millions of people increased the amount of love, charity, and good deeds, and attributed all of this to their islamic faith.

And also today, billions of people made it through the entire day without blaming their troubles on Islam or bashing muslims, arabs, jews, mormons or **christians.**Here’s a little test. See if you can get through this thread without criticizing Islam, muslims, or arabs, or without telling us why your religion is better then theirs. Even if it means just ignoring this thread if you can’t bring yourself to post something positive.

That would be something to see.

Pro just bashed Christians. So there ya go. There goes your theory on this perfect Islam day!

post 58 could be considered a frivolous post here and off point.

 

[kellie]

I think Valke was trying to make the point that there is good and bad in every religion, and lately in this forum there has been a lot of Islam bashing, so it would be nice if we just had a thread dedicated to discussing how nice Muslims can be, regardless of whether they are confused in their faith or not.

I don’t think Valke was trying to say that we should celebrate today just for them. Or they should be especially ackowledged for being charitable, as opposed to other faiths that are charitable.

It was just one thread to talk nice about them for once, and there can be some nice things said about them, like my example.

Valke also did say to ignore the thread if you couldnt be nice about them for this thread only, yet people still had to have their bashing.

Yes we all (well most) know their religion is wrong, but let’s not be so full of hatred for the religion that we fail to see the goodness in the person that God created.

 

[Damascus]

What about Pro’s Post 58?
Read Valke’s original post again and tell me Pro did not violate the rules on valke’s Op.

I am just saying that the bashing goes both ways unfortunately.
Muslims dont want bashing and yet, in the same thread they are bashing.
I dont get it

I think Valke was trying to make the point that there is good and bad in every religion, and lately in this forum there has been a lot of Islam bashing, so it would be nice if we just had a thread dedicated to discussing how nice Muslims can be, regardless of whether they are confused in their faith or not.

I don’t think Valke was trying to say that we should celebrate today just for them. Or they should be especially ackowledged for being charitable, as opposed to other faiths that are charitable.

It was just one thread to talk nice about them for once, and there can be some nice things said about them, like my example.

Valke also did say to ignore the thread if you couldnt be nice about them for this thread only, yet people still had to have their bashing.

Yes we all (well most) know their religion is wrong, but let’s not be so full of hatred for the religion that we fail to see the goodness in the person that God created.

 

[nby]

Yes we all (well most) know their religion is wrong, but let’s not be so full of hatred for the religion that we fail to see the goodness in the person that God created.

See? There, you just offended Moslems and Islam.

I think Valke2 wants us all to acknowledge the “fact” that Christianity is no better than Islam. According to him Christianity is not better than Islam and neither is Judaism better than Islam. He’s trying to make a point that all religion is the same. No matter how much Christians on this forum explain to him that their problem is not with Moslems but only with Islam, he will not listen and will keep stating his false ideas. But no matter how much you ignore us Valke2, the fact remains that Christians are the most tolerant of all people on Earth. If they were not then you would have been banned here a long time ago. Just keep using your twisted provocative methods but always remember that in the end the truth always comes out, the truth that you are trying to paint an ugly picture of a beautiful people, culture and religion. Valke2, why don’t you go and do something truthful and constructive for a change. Stop provoking Christians so that you can then use their defensive responses in order to try and prove something that’s only a “fact” to people with a hidden agenda such as yourself.

 

[Valke2]

You know Valke, every thread you post, if someone says something they feel, you constantly come back with “Oh, is that christian?” Or “Is that the way a Christian feels?”
I’m getting tired of your snide remarks.
This thread is ridiculous and I am surprised that a Jew would even post this since they want to anialate you off the face of the map. Even your statistics are wrong.
Why don’t you post a thread and talk about how wonderful Christians are, especially Catholics…you’ll never do it.
Christians do a lot of missionary work all over the world. There are several thousand organizations helping people. Priests are being killed b/c they risk their lives in war torn countries to bring God to the people.

You should worry about you own faith and how they treat others.

That’s interesting. As far as I can recall, this thread is the first time I ever said anything like that. Oops. There I go again, responding to bella. As I’ve said before, you should not be asking why a Jew is defending Islam here. How bad are the posts here that a Jew feels compeled to defend muslims?

 

[Valke2]

How do you know this? Are you just making this up, or do you have sources that affirm this?

Again, how do you know this?

This is an absurd statement. You have no knowledge whatsover as to how billions of people made it through their day, and who they didn’t or did blame for anything.

Positive is great. Truth is great as well. Sometimes they don’t go together, sometimes they do. I’d love it if you could post something factual and real rather than a simple sweeping generalization as to how people behave. Provide information, please.

I don’t have proof that there was a sunrise today either. But when I woke up the sun was in the sky. Do you really need proof that billions of people did not spend their day plotting or wishing for the destruction of people? Are you really that jaded?

 

[bella5110]

That’s interesting. As far as I can recall, this thread is the first time I ever said anything like that. Oops. There I go again, responding to bella. As I’ve said before, you should not be asking why a Jew is defending Islam here. How bad are the posts here that a Jew feels compeled to defend muslims?

But do you feel compelled to defend them in your own country? Thousands of Palestinians are dead. What about Iran? Would you be compelled then? They don’t want Israel on the map!

 

[bella5110]

See? There, you just offended Moslems and Islam.

I think Valke2 wants us all to acknowledge the “fact” that Christianity is no better than Islam. According to him Christianity is not better than Islam and neither is Judaism better than Islam. He’s trying to make a point that all religion is the same. No matter how much Christians on this forum explain to him that their problem is not with Moslems but only with Islam, he will not listen and will keep stating his false ideas. But no matter how much you ignore us Valke2, the fact remains that Christians are the most tolerant of all people on Earth. If they were not then you would have been banned here a long time ago. Just keep using your twisted provocative methods but always remember that in the end the truth always comes out, the truth that you are trying to paint an ugly picture of a beautiful people, culture and religion. Valke2, why don’t you go and do something truthful and constructive for a change. Stop provoking Christians so that you can then use their defensive responses in order to try and prove something that’s only a “fact” to people with a hidden agenda such as yourself.

He’s talking from an attorneys point of view… but your right.

 

[Valke2]

See? There, you just offended Moslems and Islam.

I think Valke2 wants us all to acknowledge the “fact” that Christianity is no better than Islam. According to him Christianity is not better than Islam and neither is Judaism better than Islam. He’s trying to make a point that all religion is the same. No matter how much Christians on this forum explain to him that their problem is not with Moslems but only with Islam, he will not listen and will keep stating his false ideas. But no matter how much you ignore us Valke2, the fact remains that Christians are the most tolerant of all people on Earth. If they were not then you would have been banned here a long time ago. Just keep using your twisted provocative methods but always remember that in the end the truth always comes out, the truth that you are trying to paint an ugly picture of a beautiful people, culture and religion. Valke2, why don’t you go and do something truthful and constructive for a change. Stop provoking Christians so that you can then use their defensive responses in order to try and prove something that’s only a “fact” to people with a hidden agenda such as yourself.

There is a difference in believing that your faith is better for you and preaching to others that your faith is better than theirs. It is interesting that a post which was designed simply to acknowledge that, like the rest of the world, muslims engage in normal acts of kindness, charity, etc., is being interpeted by you as an attack on christianity. I don’t see how my OP can possibly be viewed as an attempt to provoke Christians.

I assume that when a christian posts a hateful post on these boards, that the fault lies with the poster and not with Christanity. I give Christanity every benefit of the doubt. I also freely acknowledge that you could go to my OP and insert replace Islam with Christanity and the OP would remain equally true.

However, the fact is that on these boards, I have seen very few muslim posts attacking christanity. And those that I have seen have always been in response to posts that disparage Islam.

One need only look at the last dozen or so threads about Islam to see a pattern of aggressivness and anger directed at the religion. That there are certainly muslim posters who engage in similar behavior against Christians, Jews and others on other boards is irrelevant. How does that justify similar behavior here?

 

[Peter_DiMitri]

Well, let’s see:

Jews killed by Christians in anti-semitic pogroms: Easily over 10 million

Jews killed by Muslims in anti-semitic pogroms: arguably in the thousands, if you consider the Israel/Palestine conflict such a situation.

No comparison. What’s really offensive is the idea that Christianity has been good to Jews and Islam hasn’t. That’s a lie that approaches the level of holocaust denial.

You mean like the denial of the Holocaust by the Muslim leader in Iran?

Oops… sorry… I forgot that whenever Muslims do something bad it doesn’t speak for the group but that whenever Christians do something bad it does.

 

[Peter_DiMitri]

I don’t have proof that there was a sunrise today either. But when I woke up the sun was in the sky. Do you really need proof that billions of people did not spend their day plotting or wishing for the destruction of people? Are you really that jaded?

Not at all. I’m merely asking for something to back up your assertion other than liberal myth-making.

And, judging from your response lacking in any such information, it’s clear that you just made up something that was comfortable to your point of view.

The thing is… if you want to challenge people with information of some sort, you should actually have information at hand. As it is, you made an assertion that was basically nonsense, and made claims about Muslim wonderfulness that you haven’t backed up.

I’m not saying that Muslims aren’t wonderful; I’m saying that you should provide proof that they are instead of just making a declarative statement that is just as irrational as you think people are being toward Muslims.

 

[Peter_DiMitri]

That’s interesting. As far as I can recall, this thread is the first time I ever said anything like that. Oops. There I go again, responding to bella. As I’ve said before, you should not be asking why a Jew is defending Islam here. How bad are the posts here that a Jew feels compeled to defend muslims?

Are you certain it is the posts and not yourself?

You should at least be open to that possibility.

Maybe your reasons for defending Islam are irrational. Maybe they are well-considered. It’s difficult to know because you are applying different standards and made-up facts. Although that lack of real information and fairness doesn’t bode well for your case.

 

[bella5110]

You mean like the denial of the Holocaust by the Muslim leader in Iran?

Oops… sorry… I forgot that whenever Muslims do something bad it doesn’t speak for the group but that whenever Christians do something bad it does.

So true…

 

[Catholic_Mike]

Here’s a little test. See if you can get through this thread without criticizing Islam, muslims, or arabs, or without telling us why your religion is better then theirs. Even if it means just ignoring this thread if you can’t bring yourself to post something positive.

I respect sincere religious conviction of Muslims or anyone else.

I also hope that Muslims care enough about Truth and care enough about me to explain why they believe their religion is better than mine - by which I mean truer - when the chance to discuss it comes along. There is nothing inherently uncharitable about evangalization. Some people do use religious differences as an excuse to be prejudicial or arrogant, but when done in a spirit of genuine concern for another person’s well-being, an attempt at evangalization should be seen as an attempt at giving a gift.

 

[Peter_DiMitri]

There is a difference in believing that your faith is better for you and preaching to others that your faith is better than theirs. It is interesting that a post which was designed simply to acknowledge that, like the rest of the world, muslims engage in normal acts of kindness, charity, etc., is being interpeted by you as an attack on christianity. I don’t see how my OP can possibly be viewed as an attempt to provoke Christians.

Oh please. You’re an adult, I’m sure. It’s quite clear that you were trying to make an insulting insinuation. Please don’t hide behind passive-aggressive tactics.

In terms of preaching to others, everyone who comes to this board knows full well that it is a CATHOLIC board. it’s reasonable to expect that Catholics think that their faith is best, even as Muslims and Jews think the same of their faith.

Remember, you’re part of the group that actually calls itself “The Chosen People”… so glass houses do apply.

I assume that when a christian posts a hateful post on these boards, that the fault lies with the poster and not with Christanity. I give Christanity every benefit of the doubt. I also freely acknowledge that you could go to my OP and insert replace Islam with Christanity and the OP would remain equally true.

Even if it were the case that you give them both equal benefit of the doubt (and judging by your posts I’ve got to say that I have serious doubts about that), it still would not deal with the underlying issue of whether or not the faith itself promotes desctructive behavior.

A good philosophy can be corrupted by bad people. But when you actually have a bad philosophy, the damage can be immeasurably worse (Communism, anyone?)

However, the fact is that on these boards, I have seen very few muslim posts attacking christanity. And those that I have seen have always been in response to posts that disparage Islam.

That’s funny… I’m on these boards too, and I do see Muslims attacking Christianity. So, maybe we’re on different boards?

But not everything is an attack, either.

One need only look at the last dozen or so threads about Islam to see a pattern of aggressivness and anger directed at the religion. That there are certainly muslim posters who engage in similar behavior against Christians, Jews and others on other boards is irrelevant. How does that justify similar behavior here?

People certainly have a right to be angry at Muslims. Muslims are at the epicenter of a struggle that makes lots of people in the West feel scared and insecure. They didn’t just decide on that conclusion by the way, they saw 3,000 people murdered on television.

Is it fair to brand all Muslims as being perpetrators of that crime? Of course not. But it is legitimate to ask whether that behavior does in fact speak not to a corruption of the philosophy but whether or not the philosophy itself is corrupt.

 

[bella5110]

Peter, maybe you should consider joining The Catholic League. They need people like you. Your posts are very good…

 

[Peter_DiMitri]

I respect sincere religious conviction of Muslims or anyone else.

I also hope that Muslims care enough about Truth and care enough about me to explain why they believe their religion is better than mine - by which I mean truer - when the chance to discuss it comes along. There is nothing inherently uncharitable about evangalization. Some people do use religious differences as an excuse to be prejudicial or arrogant, but when done in a spirit of genuine concern for another person’s well-being, an attempt at evangalization should be seen as an attempt at giving a gift.

On this note, I admit that I differ a bit.

I don’t respect any religious conviction that states that murder is acceptable.

I’m not saying that Islam does say that – I’ve seen mixed messages on these boards about what the Koran says. But if Islam does say that murder is okay, then it’s a death cult and not a true faith.

The Nazis had an occult belief system that justified murder; I see no reason why we should respect that belief system.

I’d like to know more about what Islam actually teaches, but as I’ve said, I see inconsistent things posted here on the subject.

 

[bella5110]

On this note, I admit that I differ a bit.

I don’t respect any religious conviction that states that murder is acceptable.

I’m not saying that Islam does say that – I’ve seen mixed messages on these boards about what the Koran says. But if Islam does say that murder is okay, then it’s a death cult and not a true faith.

The Nazis had an occult belief system that justified murder; I see no reason why we should respect that belief system.

I’d like to know more about what Islam actually teaches, but as I’ve said, I see inconsistent things posted here on the subject.

I have told you about Islam already. You know it is by the sword and nothing more. You will not hear their God as a loving God, or a compssionate God. As I have stated, only two verses in the whole Quran say something to this nature. Check my posts again in Islam 101.

 

[Peter_DiMitri]

Peter, maybe you should consider joining The Catholic League. They need people like you. Your posts are very good…

Thank you Bella. I’ve considered joining the Catholic League, and Donahue is really a fireball!

 

[Eireann]

Today, millions and millions of people increased the amount of love, charity, and good deeds, and attributed all of this to their islamic faith.

Very commendable, but you know Freemasons give to charity too, but the Church forbids us to be members.