Another Head Covering Question

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Mater said:
OK, this is making me nuts. What “Vatican Protocol”? Can you show me that in writing, because I’ve been to several papal Masses and VERY FEW women wear head covering. Mrs. Obama wore the veil simply because she thought she was supposed to,i.e. it was the fashion, everybody else does it, etc. You all commenting on how “nice” she looked just gives me the impression that that is why you think head covering should be worn.
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There are sites all over the internet with this same approximate info on how one should dress when visiting the Holy Father. Here’s just one of them.

thekeytoitaly.com/Blog/How-to-attend-Papal-Audiences.html
 
slyboots said:
There are sites all over the internet with this same approximate info on how one should dress when visiting the Holy Father. Here’s just one of them.

thekeytoitaly.com/Blog/How-to-attend-Papal-Audiences.html
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if you have a private audience with the Pope then you must dress respectfully and cover…men wear a suit. But the Papal audience in St Peter’s square along with thousands of other people no you do not. And I’ve seen Mass at St Peter’s and just like everywhere not all the women cover. I’ve even seen Mass in the Sistine Chapel and most of the women were not covered. But a private audience with the Pope is different it is out of respect and not for style I thought anyway. I don’t know that it is protocol to cover your head while seeing the Pope in private though.
 
slyboots said:
There are sites all over the internet with this same approximate info on how one should dress when visiting the Holy Father. Here’s just one of them.

thekeytoitaly.com/Blog/How-to-attend-Papal-Audiences.html
Click to expand...
Here is a quote from the above website:

“Is there a ‘Dress Code’ for the Papal Audience?
Yes, the Vatican dress code requires no shorts or tank tops. Women’s shoulders must be covered.
It’s advisable to dress conservatively even if you are one of hundreds. Women wear dark-colored dresses, with unrevealing necklines and long sleeves, and cover their heads. Men wear conservative business suits. In the reserved section some men will wear formal morning dress, and most women will be in black with gloves and mantillas.”

The beginning part is the Vatican’s dress code, well-posted at St. Peter’s square and various Roman churches. The rest is the opinion of the website, and does not reflect at all what you will actually see at a Papal Audience or Papal Mass, in the main. Perhaps special guests in the front reserved sections dress more conservatively, but not the thousands of regular worshipers.

I’m not saying what you should or shouldn’t wear, but don’t base your decision on a mistaken idea about what is typical at the Vatican.

I’ve never had a private audience with the Pope. If I am ever lucky enough to have one, I guess I’ll find out then if they give me specific guidelines. I have had many private audiences with his Master though! He prefers I bring a humble and contrite heart.
 
Would you lay off her already? She’s doing the best she can with what she has.
 
Hello,

I know that (somewhere) in the Bible it instructs “women” to cover their heads in the Lord’s house…that means in church. It doesn’t say what “things” you should wear on your head but I think a nice scarf, hat, or caplet will do the job. I wear hats to mass, it used to bother me a little bit that I was the only one in church wearing a hat…but it doesn’t bother me any more at all. I wish more women would cover their heads in church…we are supposed to “humble” ourselves in the house of our Lord.

eiram
 
It does indeed–check 1 Cor 11 for the aforementioned directive, which specifies that a woman should cover her head when praying or prophesying. I don’t do much prophesying, and I come far short of “praying without ceasing” as we are directed in the Holy Scriptures, but I try 😃

There is some debate, based on the given passage, as to whether a woman’s hair counts as a covering, but based on what I’ve read concerning the original text, I believe the Apostle Paul meant that a lady should wear a covering. He wasn’t specific, though, and I think that we women can and should be creative when it comes to our coverings.

Pax,
-S-
 
Hello MissMichal,

Thank you for your reply. Yes, women should cover their hair while praying. That means when she is in church, God’s house.

1 Corinthians:11, 5- 12

HEADDRESS OF WOMEN

Any woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered brings shame upon her head. It is as if she had had her head shaved. Indeed, if a woman will not wear a “VEIL”, she ought to cut off her hair. If it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, it is CLEAR that she ought to wear a veil.

A man, on the other hand, ought NOT to cover his head, because he is in the image of God and the reflection of his glory. Woman, in turn, is the reflection of man’s glory. Mam was not made from woman but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman but woman for man. For this reason a woman ought to have a sigh of submission on her head, because of the angels. Yet, in the Lord, woman is not independent of man nor man independent of woman. In the same way that woman was made from man, so man is born of woman; ALL is from GOD.

I will try to find another section in the Bible instructing women to wear a veil or headcovering. These days, in my opinion, the only place many women pray is in church so they should cover their heads while they are praying.

eiram
 
Hello MissMichal,

To let you know, I am hoping that the Pope will TELL all of the Bishops to send out letters to churches around the world telling all girls and women to start covering their hair again in church. I must admit that I too was caught up in making sure my hair was “just right” before going to mass. Then my husband took a job over-seas. I was so surprised to see churches that are older than America, they were so beautiful! I started thinking of how churches looked when I was a child, and that made me remember how wonderful I felt wearing a veil in church. I started wearing hats to church, I have been for a number of years now. I get stares but I don’t care. I am there to pray to our Lord, not to please anyone in church. I am praying that all Roman Catholic churchs return to the way they used to be long ago, when the priest said mass facing the taburnacle which was in the middle of the altar in front of the church.

Have a good day,

eiram
 
I think if headcovering were required, it would almost lose value for me as a devotion. That said, I would love it if more women discovered the practice. I’ve heard stories from pre-VII Catholics about how a woman would pin a handkerchief (or worse, a Kleenex) on her head if she was caught unprepared for Mass. I can respect the intent, but Kleenex is not a dignified thing to wear. We should never, ever, turn a person away who intends to be respectful, even if some of the lesser rules are not followed, and we also should not humiliate them or make them feel that they need to humiliate themselves. Ain’t none of us perfect.
 
MissMichal said:
One more thought here: You’re probably not the only woman in that parish who has ever considered headcovering, and by showing up in one, you may encourage someone who has been too nervous to try it. You also may inspire questions and investigation in someone who has never thought about it before.
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This is very true. I was born in '78. Growing up, I don’t recall every seeing a woman with her head covered in church. Could be that I never paid attention. Though, I would think I would have remembered as I entered my teen years. I knew nothing about it until my current Parish where I see a couple women cover. I was telling my mother about these women covering their heads with this ‘lacey thingy’ and she said, “Oh, that’s a Mantilla…”, that started my quest and discovery and is leading me to cover myself also. I just have to buy myself something to cover with.
 
Mater said:
OK, this is making me nuts. What “Vatican Protocol”? Can you show me that in writing, because I’ve been to several papal Masses and VERY FEW women wear head covering. Mrs. Obama wore the veil simply because she thought she was supposed to,i.e. it was the fashion, everybody else does it, etc. You all commenting on how “nice” she looked just gives me the impression that that is why you think head covering should be worn.
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I have heard that all wives of heads of state wear all black and a black Mantilla. Must be some protocol. I tried to search on-line about protocol when meeting the Pope as a wife of a head of state and couldn’t find anything.

But anyway, head covering is Scriptural.
 
MissMichal said:
I think if headcovering were required, it would almost lose value for me as a devotion. That said, I would love it if more women discovered the practice. I’ve heard stories from pre-VII Catholics about how a woman would pin a handkerchief (or worse, a Kleenex) on her head if she was caught unprepared for Mass. I can respect the intent, but Kleenex is not a dignified thing to wear. We should never, ever, turn a person away who intends to be respectful, even if some of the lesser rules are not followed, and we also should not humiliate them or make them feel that they need to humiliate themselves. Ain’t none of us perfect.
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I think what the previous poster was getting at was just the mere idea of bring the Mass back to the reverence it used to have ‘back in the day’. Nowadays you have some that come and are ready to leave basically when they get there :(. If they truly understood what was happening before their eyes, I don’t think you could get them to leave :extrahappy:!
 
JOL said:
This is very true. I was born in '78. Growing up, I don’t recall every seeing a woman with her head covered in church. Could be that I never paid attention. Though, I would think I would have remembered as I entered my teen years. I knew nothing about it until my current Parish where I see a couple women cover. I was telling my mother about these women covering their heads with this ‘lacey thingy’ and she said, “Oh, that’s a Mantilla…”, that started my quest and discovery and is leading me to cover myself also. I just have to buy myself something to cover with.
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Same here. I’ve started attending TLM and there I cover. I haven’t got the courage to do the same at my NO yet but keep thinking about it. I’m sure many people would find it strange but probably there would be women who would consider doing the same. It definitely got me thinking when I once saw a young woman with a mantilla. It is sad that showing up in revealing clothes would draw less attention these days.
 
Contra_Mundum said:
Same here. I’ve started attending TLM and there I cover. I haven’t got the courage to do the same at my NO yet but keep thinking about it. I’m sure many people would find it strange but probably there would be women who would consider doing the same. It definitely got me thinking when I once saw a young woman with a mantilla. It is sad that showing up in revealing clothes would draw less attention these days.
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Oh heavens!

I have never been to a TLM, I do go to the NO regularly, obviously…LOL. My parish is more traditional as there are ladies who do cover and we when receive Holy Communion, we don’t line up down the center isle, we line up across the front of the alter. There is no communion rail, so I guess we just observe that method which gives some people the ability to receive Holy Communion on their knees.

Last weekend I went to another parish in my community, because they belong to our cluster and that is where the vacation bible school was. This other parish is more liberal than mine. There was a girl there who had on short shorts and a speghetti strap, v-neck tank. I swore, if she made any sudden moves, she might have fallen out of her tank…if you understand that. What came to my mind was Padre Pio and not allowing women to come to confession who weren’t dressed modestly. Why can’t the church do things like this today? Deny people communion if they don’t come in a appropriate fashion. I can’t imagine what goes though a priests head and how careful they have to be to guard themselves when there is a parade of half naked women coming down the isle. Just because they are priests doesn’t mean they aren’t prone to (name removed by moderator)ure thoughts to.

I am sorry, I took that a bit off topic.
 
JOL said:
I have never been to a TLM, I do go to the NO regularly, obviously…LOL. My parish is more traditional as there are ladies who do cover and we when receive Holy Communion, we don’t line up down the center isle, we line up across the front of the alter. There is no communion rail, so I guess we just observe that method which gives some people the ability to receive Holy Communion on their knees.
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Wow! I’m impressed. We have a communion rail but I’ve never seen women cover. I would feel awfully self conscious 😊
Maybe I should wear a beret at NO and leave the mantilla for EF :cool:
 
JOL said:
I think what the previous poster was getting at was just the mere idea of bring the Mass back to the reverence it used to have ‘back in the day’. Nowadays you have some that come and are ready to leave basically when they get there :(. If they truly understood what was happening before their eyes, I don’t think you could get them to leave :extrahappy:!
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Well, there’s nothing wrong with a bit more reverence at Mass.

Muslim: “So you really believe God is in that little box?”
Catholic: “yep, sure do.”
Muslim: “And all you do is genuflect?”

Excellent point.
 
I had my first odd comment today. The first one I have heard anyway. One of our greeters was a lady in her 20s I would say.
As I passed her she leaned over to the other lady greeter and said something like “…Sister Emily, huh?” and pointed with her thumb at me, while she giggled. The other lady smiled at her and just slightly shook her head “no” while mouthing the word “no”.
My daughter also veiled was already seated. I forgot to ask if the lady had noticed her also.
Funny.😃
 
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