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L
lizaanne
Guest
You are far more gracious than I. The word I would have chosen was more like - rude - not funny.I had my first odd comment today. The first one I have heard anyway. One of our greeters was a lady in her 20s I would say.
As I passed her she leaned over to the other lady greeter and said something like “…Sister Emily, huh?” and pointed with her thumb at me, while she giggled. The other lady smiled at her and just slightly shook her head “no” while mouthing the word “no”.
My daughter also veiled was already seated. I forgot to ask if the lady had noticed her also.
Funny.
But then again, that’s something I need to work on.~Liza
E
eiram
Guest
Hello,
How great that you got noticed. Maybe they talked about you after mass and wondered why you had your head covered. The more women start talking about women covering their heads with scarves, hats, or caplets maybe they will start asking questions and find out that they should be doing the same thing.
Coming back from receiving Holy Communion yesterday, I noticed a woman who was sitting in back of me that was also wearing a hat. It made me happy to know that there were 2 of us in church with our heads covered.
I have been looking on my computer trying to find out when we were told that women no longer had to cover their heads in church. It turns out that it was an explanation from the Pope (given by his secretary) to the press that was misunderstood/misquoted way back in the 1960’s. If anyone wants to find out what really happened, just look on your computer for the answer. All women should still be covering their heads during mass.
eiram
How great that you got noticed. Maybe they talked about you after mass and wondered why you had your head covered. The more women start talking about women covering their heads with scarves, hats, or caplets maybe they will start asking questions and find out that they should be doing the same thing.
Coming back from receiving Holy Communion yesterday, I noticed a woman who was sitting in back of me that was also wearing a hat. It made me happy to know that there were 2 of us in church with our heads covered.
I have been looking on my computer trying to find out when we were told that women no longer had to cover their heads in church. It turns out that it was an explanation from the Pope (given by his secretary) to the press that was misunderstood/misquoted way back in the 1960’s. If anyone wants to find out what really happened, just look on your computer for the answer. All women should still be covering their heads during mass.
eiram
J
JOL
Guest
I guess my question would be, why wasn’t there a corrective statement issues afterward? Why have we gone this far without being corrected. It only takes it to slip beyond one generation, as each generation has children, those children grow up without the correct teachings.
Makes me wonder what else wasn’t I taught that I should have been taught. And if this is something women and girls should be doing, why aren’t we teaching it in CCD classes?
Makes me wonder what else wasn’t I taught that I should have been taught. And if this is something women and girls should be doing, why aren’t we teaching it in CCD classes?
A
adstrinity
Guest
Ahhhhhh…but, there was a corrective statement issued afterwards. In the same paper. BUT, instead of it being prominent headlining on the first page, like the statement, it was burried in the back of the paper.
Incidentally, the remark was something along the lines of a reporter asking about VII if women still had to cover their heads in Mass and the response he got was that they were talking about more important things in this Council than women covering their heads at Mass. It was reported, “WOMEN NO LONGER NEED COVER THEIR HEADS AT MASS!”, and then when the guy did say that’s not true, the retraction was printed.
And, indeed. Why aren’t we? Is it because we’re too busy teaching children that Jesus is their friend and God loves them and other happy clappy ONLY things?
R
ready
Guest
Traditionally, unmarried women wear white or ivory colored head veils and married women wear black or colored head veils.
I put my veil on in the church vestibule before entering the church and take it off in the vestibule when I leave.
Children wear head veils when their parents decide. I’ve seen toddlers with head veils.
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eiram
Guest
Dear ADSTRINITY,
Can you give me the date that the Atlanta Journal printed the correction? I tried looking for the article they printed correcting their mistake, but I couldn’t find it.
Concerning how to try and fix this huge problem. I suggest we write letters to the Pope and remind his Holiness of what happened back in 1969. I don’t see any reason why we can not ask his Holiness to make an announcement on television “TELLING” all girls and women to start covering their hair while in church. It never hurts to ask a question. We all need to pray about this situation and ask for the Blessed Virgin Mary’s and our Lord’s help.
eiram
Can you give me the date that the Atlanta Journal printed the correction? I tried looking for the article they printed correcting their mistake, but I couldn’t find it.
Concerning how to try and fix this huge problem. I suggest we write letters to the Pope and remind his Holiness of what happened back in 1969. I don’t see any reason why we can not ask his Holiness to make an announcement on television “TELLING” all girls and women to start covering their hair while in church. It never hurts to ask a question. We all need to pray about this situation and ask for the Blessed Virgin Mary’s and our Lord’s help.
eiram
L
lizaanne
Guest
Well, that’s a great idea. But with Catholics being beaten, tortured, forced underground, and persecuted for their Faith in countries around the world, I’m sure the Holy Father has bigger fish to fry than having to tell women they should be covering their heads at Mass if they can’t figure that out for themselves, or if the priests aren’t telling them. Priests need to be saying a lot of things - as much as I love covering myself and think all women should, I am guessing this is pretty low on the list of worries within the Church.
Now granted - if more women showed this level of respect for Christ in the Eucharist for the right reasons (and not only because they are told to), I believe allover behavior would change as a result. But I don’t think that trickle down effect is not something most priests really care about. Sadly.
~Liza
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eiram
Guest
Hello,
I think the church makes announcements, they need to choose their words more carefully to make sure there are no misunderstandings.
From an article from The Atlanta Journal (June 21, 1969) entitled, “Women Required to Cover Head, Vatican Insists”, it appears that Pope Paul VI instructed one of his officials to clarify the Church’s unchanged discipline regarding head coverings for women: “A Vatican official says there has been no change, as reported, in the Roman Catholic rule that women cover their head in church. The Rev. Annibale Bugnini, secretary of the New Congregation for Divine Worship, said the reports stemmed from a misunderstanding of a statement he made at a news conference in May. ‘The rule has not been changed,’ he said. ‘It is a matter of general discipline.’”
We can not give up on this important issue.
eiram
I think the church makes announcements, they need to choose their words more carefully to make sure there are no misunderstandings.
From an article from The Atlanta Journal (June 21, 1969) entitled, “Women Required to Cover Head, Vatican Insists”, it appears that Pope Paul VI instructed one of his officials to clarify the Church’s unchanged discipline regarding head coverings for women: “A Vatican official says there has been no change, as reported, in the Roman Catholic rule that women cover their head in church. The Rev. Annibale Bugnini, secretary of the New Congregation for Divine Worship, said the reports stemmed from a misunderstanding of a statement he made at a news conference in May. ‘The rule has not been changed,’ he said. ‘It is a matter of general discipline.’”
We can not give up on this important issue.
eiram
L
lizaanne
Guest
I completely agree - it is important. But is it more important than stopping the persecuted Catholics, the outrageous abortion numbers, the Faithful who have to hide to practice their Faith?
Yes - it is very important. But if I had to choose I would prefer that the Holy Father pick up his pen to denounce Catholic persecution and forced abortions in China than to tell women they must be covering their heads when they should be told this by their local parish priests.
The problem with this that no one cares eiram. Sadly, no one cares if women are covering their heads or not. The priests don’t care, the bishops don’t care. If they did the would saying something about it. They are not going to touch this one with a ten foot pole - it’s far too charged with gender discrimination from the liberal perspective.
So - given these facts - the best thing we can do is be living examples, and when we are asked about why we cover our heads, tell the truth of the story, and explain why we do. Educate through example, help other women feel comfortable with the devotion, and when we run into priests who have issues with it, educate them as well. But expecting the Vatican to deal with this is just not realistic - there really are bigger fish to fry.
~Liza
A
adstrinity
Guest
To tell you the truth, I didn’t think this happened in the Atlanta Journal. I thought this was an issue in some Italian newspaper. I got a printed sheet that’s an excerpt from some book (don’t even know if it’s out yet) that came with my mantilla.
J
JOL
Guest
The Apologists on CAF (I was reading earlier but don’t have time to link to it right now) have stated that this is a personal choice and that women don’t have to cover.
S
slyboots
Guest
"Granted, someone could possibly make a legal argument that, since no canon presently requires a women to wear veils then she is not legally obligated to wear one, but we have already seen in Canons 23-28 that “custom” can have “the force of law” even though it is not a law itself. If it has the “force” of law then it acts like a law even though it is not, in itself, a law. That is what Catholic tradition is all about. We don’t need “laws” to show us the right thing to do; rather, we do the right thing because it is right, and Tradition and Scripture show us veil-wearing is right. The only ones who are arguing for women not to wear veils are those, like Mr. Donovan, who want to make a legalistic argument against the practice,…"http://www.catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/pastoral/head-covering1.htm
No offence.
No offence.
E
eiram
Guest
Hello,
I understand that there are many other things that our Pope must deal with, but he also tries to reassure all Catholics wherever he goes so that we will not loose faith in our Lord.
As far as all the Catholics being beaten, torchured, and having to have mass underground, I know what they feel and how they must be very secretive, I used to live in one of those countries for a number of years. We had to speak in code so that no one around us would understand what we were talking about. I was never arrested, but my family and I always had to find out where the next mass would be. I still believe that the Pope needs to remind all women to cover their heads in church. Just because the announcements from him don’t include reminding women that they must cover their heads, all those people who assumed that they didn’t have to do it anymore were wrong. It’s like kids looking for a loop-hole when their parents tell them something.
I agree that it’s very sad many women just don’t care, but I can’t say that all women don’t care because that’s not true. It’s just that the women who don’t want to be told what to do yell the loudest. I choose to cover my hair and I have been noticing that a few women are starting to do the same. I hope that more women at my church start covering their heads. Maybe we should write or call our priests and ask them to remind the women that they should be doing. If their priests attitude is “it’s not important” or We don’t care", they need to be reminded of what’s in the Bible.
I’m praying that our Lord sends all Catholic women an unmistakable message that they must start covering their heads in church.
eiram
I understand that there are many other things that our Pope must deal with, but he also tries to reassure all Catholics wherever he goes so that we will not loose faith in our Lord.
As far as all the Catholics being beaten, torchured, and having to have mass underground, I know what they feel and how they must be very secretive, I used to live in one of those countries for a number of years. We had to speak in code so that no one around us would understand what we were talking about. I was never arrested, but my family and I always had to find out where the next mass would be. I still believe that the Pope needs to remind all women to cover their heads in church. Just because the announcements from him don’t include reminding women that they must cover their heads, all those people who assumed that they didn’t have to do it anymore were wrong. It’s like kids looking for a loop-hole when their parents tell them something.
I agree that it’s very sad many women just don’t care, but I can’t say that all women don’t care because that’s not true. It’s just that the women who don’t want to be told what to do yell the loudest. I choose to cover my hair and I have been noticing that a few women are starting to do the same. I hope that more women at my church start covering their heads. Maybe we should write or call our priests and ask them to remind the women that they should be doing. If their priests attitude is “it’s not important” or We don’t care", they need to be reminded of what’s in the Bible.
I’m praying that our Lord sends all Catholic women an unmistakable message that they must start covering their heads in church.
eiram
L
L2P2
Guest
A couple of the posts lead me to a question: Are we talking here about women covering their hair or about covering AND veiling?
I attend a parish where Mass is said in the vernacular, but there is a large population of folks of Italian and Portuguese heritage. Usually, there will be a few women at Mass who wear a mantilla, as is still pretty common in southern Europe, but their faces are not covered. It is not something I would do myself, but I respect their choice.
I agree with the posters who say veiling and covering while praying are Scriptural in the literal sense, but the Church is free to interpret the text within boundaries, and the Magisterium seems to have decided that neither are to be emphasized.
While I respect covering as a devotion, I’m not sure I’d want to see a return to its being required. One of my earliest memories–this would be the late 1960s–was of wriggling in Church and having the veil slip from my face. My mother in the course of setting it right jabbed me with a straight pin and drew blood. If veiling does come back, I hope every one is clear about the difference between it and mortification of the flesh. :>
I attend a parish where Mass is said in the vernacular, but there is a large population of folks of Italian and Portuguese heritage. Usually, there will be a few women at Mass who wear a mantilla, as is still pretty common in southern Europe, but their faces are not covered. It is not something I would do myself, but I respect their choice.
I agree with the posters who say veiling and covering while praying are Scriptural in the literal sense, but the Church is free to interpret the text within boundaries, and the Magisterium seems to have decided that neither are to be emphasized.
While I respect covering as a devotion, I’m not sure I’d want to see a return to its being required. One of my earliest memories–this would be the late 1960s–was of wriggling in Church and having the veil slip from my face. My mother in the course of setting it right jabbed me with a straight pin and drew blood. If veiling does come back, I hope every one is clear about the difference between it and mortification of the flesh. :>
R
ready
Guest
I wear a head veil, so I am not arguing against wearing head veils in the least. But what I’d like to point out is how can priests remind women that they should be wearing a head veil when the Pope says that it is a woman’s own choice whether she wants to wear a head veil or not? Perhaps the Pope should address the issue again and make things clear to his flock, specifiing that women should have been wearing head veils all along in the Church’s liturgical celebrations throughout history to the present (and in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament).
A
ac_claire
Guest
Has the HF said this? I had thought that everyone has been basically silent on the topic ever since the code requiring women to cover was dropped from canon law…?
R
ready
Guest
I addressed this question years back to a particular monsignor, as I knew that he was the head of the Congregation of Divine Worship where I live, and he said the official Church stand is that it is a woman’s choice whether she wants to wear a head veil or not. He said it was only a custom and wasn’t required of me, although I understand there is possible canonical reasons why women could be bound to wear head veils. I have always heard that it was the Pope (and maybe the monsignor said this too, but I don’t remember) who said the choice would be the woman’s as to whether she wishes to have her head covered. I cover my head, but I don’t judge the women who don’t, precisely because I’ve heard people say the Pope himself (JPII at the time) says it is a woman’s choice.
S
simple_soul
Guest
I think wearing a vail is a personal choice and I used to wear one or a hat and I felt very modest with it. When people that I grew up with started to complaine about how some were no longer wearing them, the question was put to them like this. “What better vail could God have provided a woman with than her own hair”. As of now I do not wear a hat or vail and I know I am still being very modest. I really do think that when it comes to covering our heads or not it is something we need to search our souls and seek advice from our spiritual advisores for and then we will know wich way will help us grow closer to God.
G
GodIsGracious
Guest
If by “veiling” you mean covering the face as well, no. People are talking about covering one’s hair. At least, that’s how I read this.
Yes. However, should this occur, consider it as an opportunity to offer it up as penance.
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