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Pophead
Guest
What did Jesus mean when He warned that many would claim that Christ was in the “inner rooms” in the last days (Matthew 24: 23-27)?
Another Jesus ???
Another Jesus ???
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scottm
Guest
Let’s assume that the Olivet Discourse predicts the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem, which occurred in 70 AD. In verses 23-27 Jesus is telling his followers to not be deceived by claims and cries that so-and-so is the Messiah come to defeat the Roman army. We know from reading history that there have been dozens of alleged Messiahs over the centuries, including some in that same era. In verses 30 and 31 Jesus tells his followers how they will recognize Him, the real Messiah, when He returns.
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mangy_dog
Guest
In this day and age the “inner rooms” may refer to those groups or secret societies who claim to possess hidden knowledge and priviledged information about things divine and occult. They will claim that Jesus is “one of them”, not divine but an "ascended being among other ascended masters…yada, yada, yada. Very dangerous people.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
“inner rooms” refers to the holy of holies, and the jewish part of the temple. Gentiles had an outer court, Jewish people an inner court and then the priest once a year or so, entered the holy of holies. In the same chapter, “15"So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’** spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.”
Refers to I Macc 1:54
53
Israel was driven into hiding, wherever places of refuge could be found.
**54
8 On the fifteenth day of the month Chislev, in the year one hundred and forty-five, the king erected the horrible abomination upon the altar of holocausts, and in the surrounding cities of Judah they built pagan altars. **
55
They also burnt incense at the doors of houses and in the streets.
56
9 Any scrolls of the law which they found they tore up and burnt.
57
Whoever was found with a scroll of the covenant, and whoever observed the law, was condemned to death by royal decree.
58
So they used their power against Israel, against those who were caught, each month, in the cities.
59
On the twenty-fifth day of each month they sacrificed on the altar erected over the altar of holocausts.
60
Women who had had their children circumcised were put to death, in keeping with the decree,
61
with the babies hung from their necks; their families also and those who had circumcised them were killed.
62
But many in Israel were determined and resolved in their hearts not to eat anything unclean;
63
they preferred to die rather than to be defiled with unclean food or to profane the holy covenant; and they did die. Terrible affliction was upon Israel.ä»…
nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/1maccabees/1maccabees1.htm#v54
8 [14] Except for the last part (and then the end will come), this verse substantially repeats Mark 13:10. The Matthean addition raises a problem since what follows in Matthew 24:15-23 refers to the horrors of the First Jewish Revolt including the destruction of the temple, and Matthew, writing after that time, knew that the parousia of Jesus was still in the future. A solution may be that the evangelist saw the events of those verses as foreshadowing the cosmic disturbances that he associates with the parousia (Matthew 24:29) so that the period in which the former took place could be understood as belonging to the end.
9 [15-28] Cf Mark 13:14-23; Luke 17:23-24, 37. A further stage in the tribulations that will precede the coming of the Son of Man, and an answer to the question of Matthew 24:3a, “when will this (the destruction of the temple) happen?”
10 [15] The desolating abomination: in 167 B.C. the Syrian king Antiochus IV Epiphanes desecrated the temple by setting up in it a statue of Zeus Olympios (see 1 Macc 1:54). That event is referred to in Daniel 12:11 LXX as the “desolating abomination” (NAB “horrible abomination”) and the same Greek term is used here; cf also Daniel 9:27; 11:31. Although the desecration had taken place before Dn was written, it is presented there as a future event, and Matthew sees that “prophecy” fulfilled in the desecration of the temple by the Romans. In the holy place: the temple; more precise than Mark’s where he should not (Mark 13:14). Let the reader understand: this parenthetical remark, taken from Mark 13:14 invites the reader to realize the meaning of Daniel’s “prophecy.”
11 [16] The tradition that the Christians of Jerusalem fled from that city to Pella, a city of Transjordan, at the time of the First Jewish Revolt is found in Eusebius (Ecclesiastical History, 3, 5, 3), who attributes the flight to “a certain oracle given by revelation before the war.” The tradition is not improbable but the Matthean command, derived from its Marcan source, is vague in respect to the place of flight (to the mountains), although some scholars see it as applicable to the flight to Pella.
12 [17-19] Haste is essential, and the journey will be particularly difficult for women who are burdened with unborn or infant children.
nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew24.htm
So, basically, someone would be in the holy of holies descrating the altar by claiming to be either God himself, or claiming to be the Messiah.**
Refers to I Macc 1:54
53
Israel was driven into hiding, wherever places of refuge could be found.
**54
8 On the fifteenth day of the month Chislev, in the year one hundred and forty-five, the king erected the horrible abomination upon the altar of holocausts, and in the surrounding cities of Judah they built pagan altars. **
55
They also burnt incense at the doors of houses and in the streets.
56
9 Any scrolls of the law which they found they tore up and burnt.
57
Whoever was found with a scroll of the covenant, and whoever observed the law, was condemned to death by royal decree.
58
So they used their power against Israel, against those who were caught, each month, in the cities.
59
On the twenty-fifth day of each month they sacrificed on the altar erected over the altar of holocausts.
60
Women who had had their children circumcised were put to death, in keeping with the decree,
61
with the babies hung from their necks; their families also and those who had circumcised them were killed.
62
But many in Israel were determined and resolved in their hearts not to eat anything unclean;
63
they preferred to die rather than to be defiled with unclean food or to profane the holy covenant; and they did die. Terrible affliction was upon Israel.ä»…
nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/1maccabees/1maccabees1.htm#v54
8 [14] Except for the last part (and then the end will come), this verse substantially repeats Mark 13:10. The Matthean addition raises a problem since what follows in Matthew 24:15-23 refers to the horrors of the First Jewish Revolt including the destruction of the temple, and Matthew, writing after that time, knew that the parousia of Jesus was still in the future. A solution may be that the evangelist saw the events of those verses as foreshadowing the cosmic disturbances that he associates with the parousia (Matthew 24:29) so that the period in which the former took place could be understood as belonging to the end.
9 [15-28] Cf Mark 13:14-23; Luke 17:23-24, 37. A further stage in the tribulations that will precede the coming of the Son of Man, and an answer to the question of Matthew 24:3a, “when will this (the destruction of the temple) happen?”
10 [15] The desolating abomination: in 167 B.C. the Syrian king Antiochus IV Epiphanes desecrated the temple by setting up in it a statue of Zeus Olympios (see 1 Macc 1:54). That event is referred to in Daniel 12:11 LXX as the “desolating abomination” (NAB “horrible abomination”) and the same Greek term is used here; cf also Daniel 9:27; 11:31. Although the desecration had taken place before Dn was written, it is presented there as a future event, and Matthew sees that “prophecy” fulfilled in the desecration of the temple by the Romans. In the holy place: the temple; more precise than Mark’s where he should not (Mark 13:14). Let the reader understand: this parenthetical remark, taken from Mark 13:14 invites the reader to realize the meaning of Daniel’s “prophecy.”
11 [16] The tradition that the Christians of Jerusalem fled from that city to Pella, a city of Transjordan, at the time of the First Jewish Revolt is found in Eusebius (Ecclesiastical History, 3, 5, 3), who attributes the flight to “a certain oracle given by revelation before the war.” The tradition is not improbable but the Matthean command, derived from its Marcan source, is vague in respect to the place of flight (to the mountains), although some scholars see it as applicable to the flight to Pella.
12 [17-19] Haste is essential, and the journey will be particularly difficult for women who are burdened with unborn or infant children.
nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew24.htm
So, basically, someone would be in the holy of holies descrating the altar by claiming to be either God himself, or claiming to be the Messiah.**
po18guy
Well-known member
SOLA SCRIPTURA ALERT
POPHEAD! I AM ASHAMED OF YOU! You weasel in here with your anti-Catholic Evangelical books, written by absolute unknowns who have no more authority to interpret scripture than I do. Your beliefs go all the way back to 1890! That’s almost as much history as the Mormons, JWs and SDA churches have - almost.
You are clearly insinuating that the “inner rooms” are the Catholic Tabernacles, and that Christ warned that He would not be found there. The author of the book in your link calls the Eucharist “peculiar”. What a blind leader of the blind! What’s his next assertion: Black helicopters dispatched from secret underground Vatican heliports to wreak havoc upon the real Christians? It is YOUR beliefs, just like the Mormons, JWs and SDAs that are peculiar, not those of Catholicism. Why can’t you just be honest?
???
POPHEAD! I AM ASHAMED OF YOU! You weasel in here with your anti-Catholic Evangelical books, written by absolute unknowns who have no more authority to interpret scripture than I do. Your beliefs go all the way back to 1890! That’s almost as much history as the Mormons, JWs and SDA churches have - almost.
You are clearly insinuating that the “inner rooms” are the Catholic Tabernacles, and that Christ warned that He would not be found there. The author of the book in your link calls the Eucharist “peculiar”. What a blind leader of the blind! What’s his next assertion: Black helicopters dispatched from secret underground Vatican heliports to wreak havoc upon the real Christians? It is YOUR beliefs, just like the Mormons, JWs and SDAs that are peculiar, not those of Catholicism. Why can’t you just be honest?
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pprimeau1976
Guest
The KJV doesn’t call them inner rooms, it calls them “secret rooms”:
In Catholic Churches there is no secret as to where the Eucharist is.
po18guy
Well-known member
Faithful Catholics carry Christ in them, having eaten His Body and drunk His Blood. Since we are his visible body, we possess His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity within us (“life within you” John 6:53). OK, Mr. Evangelical, what did Christ mean in Matthew 28:20? “And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” He could only have referred to the Eucharist. I have just interpreted this passage for you, with even more authority than your pastor, because I ate and drank of Christ. Silly, you say? No more silly than your revisionist Christianity.
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pprimeau1976
Guest
Uhhh…I think you jumped the gun. I am not an Evangelical. I’m Catholic. I was agreeing with you.
po18guy
Well-known member
I was agreeing with you, but in my clumsiness, I omitted the thumbs up. I was upset at Pophead for doing this in a backhanded way, and for not being truthful enough to say what his allegations were. He plays coy, but will attack like any Prot Bull off the leash. My comment relates to the chutzpah of an evangelical who will not listen to reason, and who places such thinly-veiled attacks on Catholicism in the “new projects” section. Nothing new about it-the One Church has been attacked for 1,800 years before evangelicalism was thought of. I am glad you pointed out the “secret rooms” aspect. Maybe he is using the New Weird Translation…
Christ’s peace.
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