Another Koran-kissing moment

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myfavoritmartin said:
Their God is satan the great deciever.
One God! our Creator
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St. Paul would disagree with you.

Acts 17:23 For passing by, and seeing your idols, I found an altar also, on which was written: To the unknown God. What therefore you worship, without knowing it, that I preach to you:
 
myfavoritmartin said:
You honestly believe the God they pray to and the true God are one in the same?
:confused:
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From the CCC:
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.” :bowdown:

However, I note that you side-stepped the verses I provided containing the examples of Jesus and Paul…may I assume that you see that B16 is following in their footsteps? :yup:
 
Genesis315 said:
St. Paul would disagree wwith you.

Acts 17:23 For passing by, and seeing your idols, I found an altar also, on which was written: To the unknown God. What therefore you worship, without knowing it, that I preach to you:
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:amen:
 
myfavoritmartin said:
You honestly believe the God they pray to and the true God are one in the same?:confused:
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There’s only 1 creator; all the Arabic Christian beleivers whether they be evangelical, Orthodox or Catholic call Him Allah. There is no other God.

Even the demons believe that God is one and tremble (James 2:19)

For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, 'TO AN UNKNOWN GOD ’ Therefore what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you. (Acts 17:23)

**For God loved the world so much **
**that He gave His only begotten Son, **
so that whoever believes in Him should not perish,
but have eternal life. (John 3: 16)
Għax Alla hekk ħabb id-dinja,
**li ta’ l-lben waħdieni tiegħu, **
**biex kull min jemmen bih ma jintifx, **
iżda jkollu l-ħajja ta’ dejjem. (Ġwann 3: 16)
**For all have sinned **
and come short of the glory of God.
(Romans 3: 23)
**Għax kollha dinbu, **
u neqsin mill-glorja t’Alla.
(Rumani 3: 23)
Sin pays its servants: the wages are death.
But God’s free gift to us is eternal life through
Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6: 23)
**Għax ħlas id-dnub hi l-mewt; **
iżda l-għotja t’Alla hi l-ħajja ta’ dejjem
f’Ġesù Kristu Sidna. (Rumani 6: 23)
But God demonstrates His love for us in that,
while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
(Romans 5: 8)
Iżda Alla jirrikmanda l-imħabba tiegħu lilna,
billi meta konna għadna midinbin,
Kristu miet għalina.
(Rumani 5: 8)
 
It really looks like the Muslims are saying that he prayed toward Mecca.
We can say that they were praying toward Jerusalem, it all is internal and intent that matters.

He probably made a mistake and did not think they would spin it this way and say that he was praying toward Mecca. Just like I can pray with a Jehovah’s Witness and pray that they will be converted, as they pray their prayer.

We have no idea what he prayed for or what his intent was unless he says so himself.

In Christ
Scylla
 
dalcent said:
I tend to agree. He’s done a good job. I was in both the Blue Mosque and the Hagia Sophia late October. The altar (what’s left) of the latter faces approximately due East towards Mecca.

I was in two minds whether to go in the Blue Mosque but I met a Catholic priest from the U.S. who told me it was fine.

Yes, the anti-Catholic attacks on Benedict’s visit have already started. Sensible stuff like he condoned polygamy, prayed with infidels, called Islam equal to Christianity, and on, and on, and on, and on. As ever:) .
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nitpicking on

Umm, from Istanbul, Mecca is to the southeast, and more south than east. East points toward the Black Sea and the Caucasus.

nitpicking off–as you were

DaveBj
 
scylla said:
It really looks like the Muslims are saying that he prayed toward Mecca.
We can say that they were praying toward Jerusalem, it all is internal and intent that matters.

He probably made a mistake and did not think they would spin it this way and say that he was praying toward Mecca. Just like I can pray with a Jehovah’s Witness and pray that they will be converted, as they pray their prayer.

We have no idea what he prayed for or what his intent was unless he says so himself.

In Christ
Scylla
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Exactly. He was walking with a group of people who stopped to pray while facing a certain direction so he said a prayer too. I don’t see how it is an act of homage to Mecca.
 
Genesis315 said:
Exactly. He was walking with a group of people who stopped to pray while facing a certain direction so he said a prayer too. I don’t see how it is an act of homage to Mecca.
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Especially for anyone who knows he’s Catholic…not to mention that they all can’t miss the minor fact that he’s the Pope, DUH!
 
DaveBj said:
nitpicking on

Umm, from Istanbul, Mecca is to the southeast, and more south than east. East points toward the Black Sea and the Caucasus.

nitpicking off–as you were

DaveBj
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The Muslim ‘edifice’ at the front was set slightly askew by a few degrees when it was converted to a Mosque. What’s needed is a funky prayer mat with compass.
http://www.simpleislam.com/picture/picPM25.jpg or even GPS: like it matters!🙂
 
I haven’t read every post in the thread, so someone may have already pointed out the obvious -

When the Pope was visiting the mosque his body was facing the same direction when he was praying as all the other people - undoubtedly toward Mecca, as the mosque would be built that way. It would be rather crazy for him to face in a different direction from everybody else. The muslims obviously put a spin on it that he was praying like a muslim, toward Mecca. But he was just praying. The fact that he was facing Mecca because that was the way the mosque was oriented may never have occurred to him, so it is pointless and meaningless.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Would Jesus have prayed toward mecca in a mosque honoring another?
:rolleyes:
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I am completely sure that the Pope wasn’t “praying towards Mecca” as the Muslims do. I am completely sure he was praying to Jesus Christ. I am also completely sure that no matter which direction I pray as long as I call upon the Lord He knows I am praying to Him even if a Muslim holy place, protestant church, Hindu temple, or even Stonehenge is in the vicinity of the direction I am praying.
 
Marauder said:
The reason it is an IF he kissed the Koran is because there is no proof on what exactly he is kissing. All you have is a green book being kissed by the Pope in front of someone wearing traditional headress. It could be a book of Gospels presented as a gift. There has never been any proof that it is in fact the Koran.
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Please, we Catholics have to be realistic here - it’s the Koran our late Holy Father is kissing and I don’t recall there being a debate about it when it happened. The Pope wouldn’t kiss just any book they put in front of him and it is highly unlikely they handed him a Bible. I heard years ago on Catholic Answers Live when displeasure over this came up that the custom in Muslim countries is to kiss a gift that is given to you. The Koran was presented to the Pope as a gift and knowing the custom he followed through. I love JP2 but I had an uneasiness about this - but then I realized he is human and can therefore make some questionable decisions even if his intent was good. I can be a bit of a traditional hardliner so I would of course prefer that our Popes would be respectful of Muslims without acting in a way that could cause confusion with the general population and give the wrong message to un-informed individuals.
 
Marauder said:
The reason it is an IF he kissed the Koran is because there is no proof on what exactly he is kissing. All you have is a green book being kissed by the Pope in front of someone wearing traditional headress. It could be a book of Gospels presented as a gift. There has never been any proof that it is in fact the Koran.
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Suppose this is the Pope kissing the koran. How many countrys did he visit and kiss the ground when he arrived, dose this “offend” you? Not me. Dose this injure your faith in Jesus and his earthly mission ? not mine!
John 6: 61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit[e] and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe.”
 
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