Another LDS Exaltation Question!

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TexanKnight,
I will leave you to your opinion. However, what I have said is the truth as I have seen it.
That would be great…if it was an opinion. What I said is FACT. I know what was taught, I know what I was taught to teach, and I know then, what I taught. I, unlike you, do not need to hide the bitter truths about I believe.
 
That would be great…if it was an opinion. What I said is FACT. I know what was taught, I know what I was taught to teach, and I know then, what I taught. I, unlike you, do not need to hide the bitter truths about I believe.
I don’t disagree that you may have been taught such by some member or few members. However, I suspect it was a rather isolated incidence. At the end of the day we could go back and forth stating our opinions. So to put this to bed, please find a Sunday School, Seminary, Institute, or other lesson manual used in the church within the last 50 years which teaches that members will be “god’s of their own worlds”. If you can find such then you will at least have a leg to stand on.
 
So to put this to bed, please find a Sunday School, Seminary, Institute, or other lesson manual used in the church within the last 50 years which teaches that members will be “god’s of their own worlds”. If you can find such then you will at least have a leg to stand on.
But such (apparently abandoned) beliefs still exist in Mormon culture, particularly in multi-generation LDS families.
 
Janderich,

Grabbing onto a single phrase (men will be gods and rule their own world) and claiming that you’ve never heard that could be possible, BUT to deny the underlying theology is disingenuous at best, but a complete lie at worst.

If you’ve gone through the temple ceremonies (and I haven’t, but my parents have told me enough in trying to re-convert me that I’m at least vaguely aware of what goes on), you’ll have been informed EXACTLY what ultimately happens after death and the resurrection.

There is a reason there are 3 degrees of Heaven and, within those heavens, there’s 3 degrees of the highest heaven as well. Those that attain the highest of the highest by living a faithful life (including getting married in the temple- it’s a requirement) get to eternally progress to “rule over their own kingdom, just like God”. This isn’t secret LDS doctrine, this is basic Sunday school stuff you’ll find in the teaching manuals for 12 year olds (and even younger). To deny that to sound less outlandish to the rest of the Christian world isn’t only dishonest, but it’s misrepresenting the LDS church.
 
I don’t disagree that you may have been taught such by some member or few members. However, I suspect it was a rather isolated incidence. At the end of the day we could go back and forth stating our opinions. So to put this to bed, please find a Sunday School, Seminary, Institute, or other lesson manual used in the church within the last 50 years which teaches that members will be “god’s of their own worlds”. If you can find such then you will at least have a leg to stand on.
Institute of religion
Presidents of the church student manual
Chapter 5

© 2003 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc.
All rights reserved
Updated 2004
Printed in the United States of America

English approval: 10/04
“‘President Brimhall, these children are now at play, making mud worlds, the time will come when some of these boys, through their faithfulness to the gospel, will progress and develop in knowledge, intelligence and power, in future eternities, until they shall be able to go out into space where there is unorganized matter and call together the necessary elements, and through their knowledge of and control over the laws and powers of nature, to organize matter into worlds on which their posterity may dwell, and over which they shall rule as gods’” (Snow, Improvement Era, June 1919, 658–59).
I hear the LDS church is writing all new manuals, so you better save this one so you can remember what was taught 50 years from now.
 
The quote I used was from Joseph Smith’s King Follet discourse. It was one of the last sermons that he gave before his death. It represents in a sense the culmination of his teachings on God and the eternal destiny of man. It also contradicts what the Book of Mormon plainly teaches about God. If Joseph was mistaken about God not always being God its hard not see him as a false prophet. He was teaching in public in his role as a prophet of God. For 3000 years the consistent teaching of prophets, apostles, Jews, and Christians on the nature of God is that God is the everlasting one, who always has been and always will be the only God. I agree with Joseph Smith that it is a first principle of gospel to have a correct understanding of who God is. If he was mistaken about that foundational belief, contrary to everything that has ever been taught about the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, then how can we trust anything he said? If he was wrong about the most important things, why should we have confidence in his teachings on the less important ones? How can we believe that he was the anointed messenger of God in these latter days to restore the true church, second only to Jesus in salvation history? It doesn’t really matter whether that particular belief is regularly taught in the LDS church today. Either he was never a prophet (as I believe) or he was once called of God but eventually became a fallen prophet (with regards to polygamy and his later teachings on God). If either of those is true then the current LDS church has no foundation. It cannot be the true Body of Christ.
 
I don’t disagree that you may have been taught such by some member or few members. However, I suspect it was a rather isolated incidence.
Wow. Wow. Wow. Just wow.

You dont seem to know much about Mormon culture or teachings through out the years.

Just wow.
 
There are Mormon branches that hold to the belief JS was a true prophet, but fell. The foundational errors of JS begin with his stories of a “great apostasy”.
 
There are Mormon branches that hold to the belief JS was a true prophet, but fell. The foundational errors of JS begin with his stories of a “great apostasy”.
everything out of apostolic succession has to found their believe in apostasy if not their reality doesn’t have any accettable foundation.
But believing in apostolic succession make you safe since it can be traced. Believing in apostasy expose you to anything. Apostolic succesion is a reality apostasy is a speculation. Who believe in apostasy prefer believing in speculation then reality. Why? Who knows. Maybe is just another devil’s proposition to man.
 
everything out of apostolic succession has to found their believe in apostasy if not their reality doesn’t have any accettable foundation.
But believing in apostolic succession make you safe since it can be traced. Believing in apostasy expose you to anything. Apostolic succesion is a reality apostasy is a speculation. Who believe in apostasy prefer believing in speculation then reality. Why? Who knows. Maybe is just another devil’s proposition to man.
👍
 
I don’t disagree that you may have been taught such by some member or few members. However, I suspect it was a rather isolated incidence. At the end of the day we could go back and forth stating our opinions. So to put this to bed, please find a Sunday School, Seminary, Institute, or other lesson manual used in the church within the last 50 years which teaches that members will be “god’s of their own worlds”. If you can find such then you will at least have a leg to stand on.
You would suspect wrong. I was taught this in Texas, where I was baptized, in Idaho, where I lived for 2 months waiting to start my mission, in the MTC, where I prepared for my mission, and in Michigan, where I served in the bishopric and elder;s quorum presidency in my ward.

So, my legs are fine. And each time you post, I am thankful I belong to a church that, unlike yours, does not need to backtrack on doctrine that was taught.

YOU have already admitted the LDS is not true when you admitted BY, a prophet, taught false doctrine. True prophets from true churches do not teach false doctrine.

Be Blessed
 
Institute of religion
Presidents of the church student manual
Chapter 5

© 2003 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc.
All rights reserved
Updated 2004
Printed in the United States of America

English approval: 10/04

I hear the LDS church is writing all new manuals, so you better save this one so you can remember what was taught 50 years from now.
Janderich, you have disappeared again…I was about to go thru my materials to “put this to bed” but was beat to the punch. Would you like some salt and pepper to help eat that crow? 🙂

On a serious note, it appears you do not know much about your church’s teachings. I pray you discover the truth soon.
 
Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe in a doctrine known as “exaltation”, also known as “eternal life”. This belief entails receiving the life that God lives, in His eternal presence in the Celestial Kingdom. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ believe that we can be heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17), and we take that belief literally. We shall receive a crown of glory that will not fade away (1 Peter 5:4), and we shall be granted the gift of sitting with Christ in His throne, even as He sits with the Father in His throne (Rev 3:21), and shall inherit all things (Rev 21:7). In that belief, we shall be “gods”, yet God will always be our God, and shall always be above us. To receive the gift of exaltation, one must have continuous faith in our divine Savior Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice and resurrection, continuous repentance, be baptized by one having authority from God, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and endure to the end, receiving further sacred ordinances and covenants, such as the holy priesthood, being sealed for time and eternity to one’s spouse, and being endowed with power from on high in the Lord’s House, the temple.

On the issue of “receiving planets”, this is a speculative belief that has been taught in a number of Church manuals and by a number of Church leaders at times (which reminds me to a degree of the speculative belief of limbo that was taught for some time in Catholic belief, i.e. speculative belief being taught). In my opinion, the belief that we will receive or create worlds is based on the belief that we inherit all things from God, that we live the life He lives, and that we are heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ. It is therefore stated that we may receive or create worlds as God did, as heirs of Him. This is not something that is focused on by Latter-day Saints. We strive to follow the example of Christ our Savior, follow His commandments, and strive to endure to the end to live in God’s presence for eternity with our families, and be heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ. What exactly that entails is not really dwelled on, though yes, it has been taught that we may receive worlds or create worlds.

Interestingly, the Jewish Talmud apparently has this to say (relevant only because some critics may claim that Joseph Smith and/or his successors originated this belief in the 1800s and has no place in Judeo-Christian thought at all):
**
The Holy One, blessed be He, will in the future call all of the pious by their names, and give them a cup of elixir of life in their hands so that they should live and endure forever. . . . And the Holy One, blessed be He, will in the future reveal to all the pious in the World to Come the Ineffable Name with which new heavens and a new earth can be created, so that all of them should be able to create new worlds. The Holy One, blessed be He, will give every pious three hundred and forty worlds in inheritance in the World to Come. . . . To all the pious the Holy One, blessed be He, will give a sign and a part in the goodly reward, and everlasting renown, glory and greatness and praise, a crown encompassed in holiness, and royalty, equal to those of all the pious in the World to Come. The sign will be the cup of life which the Holy One, blessed be He, will give to the Messiah and to the pious in the Future to Come.**
Code:
 Midrash Alpha beta diRabbi Akiba BhM 3:32
Also:
en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_the_nature_of_God/Deification_of_man/Gods_of_their_own_planets
 
Thank you for giving a straightforward argument! At least someone is willing to tell it like it is 😉
 
Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe in a doctrine known as “exaltation”, also known as “eternal life”. This belief entails receiving the life that God lives, in His eternal presence in the Celestial Kingdom. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ believe that we can be heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17), and we take that belief literally. We shall receive a crown of glory that will not fade away (1 Peter 5:4), and we shall be granted the gift of sitting with Christ in His throne, even as He sits with the Father in His throne (Rev 3:21), and shall inherit all things (Rev 21:7). In that belief, we shall be “gods”, yet God will always be our God, and shall always be above us. To receive the gift of exaltation, one must have continuous faith in our divine Savior Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice and resurrection, continuous repentance, be baptized by one having authority from God, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and endure to the end, receiving further sacred ordinances and covenants, such as the holy priesthood, being sealed for time and eternity to one’s spouse, and being endowed with power from on high in the Lord’s House, the temple.

On the issue of “receiving planets”, this is a speculative belief that has been taught in a number of Church manuals and by a number of Church leaders at times (which reminds me to a degree of the speculative belief of limbo that was taught for some time in Catholic belief, i.e. speculative belief being taught). In my opinion, the belief that we will receive or create worlds is based on the belief that we inherit all things from God, that we live the life He lives, and that we are heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ. It is therefore stated that we may receive or create worlds as God did, as heirs of Him. This is not something that is focused on by Latter-day Saints. We strive to follow the example of Christ our Savior, follow His commandments, and strive to endure to the end to live in God’s presence for eternity with our families, and be heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ. What exactly that entails is not really dwelled on, though yes, it has been taught that we may receive worlds or create worlds.

Interestingly, the Jewish Talmud apparently has this to say (relevant only because some critics may claim that Joseph Smith and/or his successors originated this belief in the 1800s and has no place in Judeo-Christian thought at all):
**
The Holy One, blessed be He, will in the future call all of the pious by their names, and give them a cup of elixir of life in their hands so that they should live and endure forever. . . . And the Holy One, blessed be He, will in the future reveal to all the pious in the World to Come the Ineffable Name with which new heavens and a new earth can be created, so that all of them should be able to create new worlds.** The Holy One, blessed be He, will give every pious three hundred and forty worlds in inheritance in the World to Come. . . . To all the pious the Holy One, blessed be He, will give a sign and a part in the goodly reward, and everlasting renown, glory and greatness and praise, a crown encompassed in holiness, and royalty, equal to those of all the pious in the World to Come. The sign will be the cup of life which the Holy One, blessed be He, will give to the Messiah and to the pious in the Future to Come.
Code:
 Midrash Alpha beta diRabbi Akiba BhM 3:32
Also:
en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_the_nature_of_God/Deification_of_man/Gods_of_their_own_planets
FAIR is really good at refuting Mormon prophets (so-called). Cracks me up. Lorenzo Snow, or some wiki writer, and so many Mormons take sides with the wiki. Rock on.
 
The back tracking that the LDS Church does with it’s teachings could give a person whiplash.

One of the bigger reasons that I found it’s leadership lacking in credibility.
If you believe in something, stand up for it. Dont change it in an effort to become PC or mainstream, makes good PR, or whatever.

Have a backbone. 🤷
 
I love how LW tried to compare what they have done with the teachings regarding limbo. It is a typical fallback for Mormons to try to compare teachings and actions by alleged prophets with non-prophets. That apples-and-oranges approach is an incredible red-herring.

Bottom line, your alleged prophets have had so many false teachings, back-tracking doctrines and questionable beliefs that it is impossible to know what you really and truly believe and have believed. God claims His church is NOT a church of confusion. Guess that rules out the LDS Church being His church
 
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