Another LDS Pre-Existence Question!

[Jerusha]

There was no Apostasy. Mormons have no evidence it occurred, save for a few verses twisted out context and the testimony of Joseph Smith - which is not credible in the slightest.

I would have to say that BY committed blasphemy – a few times.

As to the nature of the apostasy, Brigham Young said that Jesus and the apostles practiced polygamy. That is why the early Christian Church was so persecuted. So when the early Christian polygamists were killed off, that is when tha apostasy happened. That is why the LDS retain polygamy-related theology. They only practice it in the after-life, because the cruel US government prohibited it.

If the above is true, that makes Jesus a liar.

And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

D-R

 

[pismopal]

“The Apostacy”…sounds like an event caused by a toggle switch and the term is used by LDS to dismiss the authenticy and authority of the Church founded by Christ. This is the way that LDS creates the vacuum they need to suck in those converts. Apostacy would do just that if it occurred but it never did and it never will because God promised that it would not. As I have said before…discussions about LDS theology may be interesting to some but it is actually very simple…LDS theology collapses around Joseph Smith and cannot rise.

 

[pismopal]

YES,they are ,especially that romney is likely to be the rep candidate.never in my life,ive seen a deluge of mormon missionaries in our town lately.they were very persistent in entering our house,even if i told to leave us alone.One gal even asked us,if we have clothes to be laundered and they will do it.how low can they go,just to convert people or see to it that romney will win the election.btw,i am boycotting the pres election,will not vote for romney or obama!

I don’t think people are going to change their religion en mass because of Romney anymore than people rushed to RCIA because of JFK. If you don’t vote for Romney you are voting for Obama. I would only advise those inclined to vote for Obama to refrain from voting

 

[JustaServant]

One gal even asked us,if we have clothes to be laundered and they will do it…

Send her my, I won’t convert but ah…

 

[Maryann_C]

So Adam and Eve could:

• Remain childless in the garden and live forever in their current state - knowing neither misery nor joy.
  or
• Eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and bring children - along with the consequence of sin and death - into the world. In so doing they would initiate the great plan of salvation for all of Father’s sons and daughters. Additionally, a Savior would be provided to redeem mankind from the consequences of the fall.

It seems to me there is a narrow wall of truth here and LDS understanding is one side and Catholic on the other . Let us not forget that we call the fall “happy fault” and that God is outside of time so we do understand that seeing the result God did implement a plan of salvation- Thank You Jesus.

a deluge of mormon missionaries in our town lately.they were very persistent in entering our house,even if i told to leave us alone.One gal even asked us,if we have clothes to be laundered and they will do it.how low can they go,just to convert people or see to it that romney will win the election.btw,i am boycotting the pres election,will not vote for romney or obama!

Boycotting a right that was won by the shedding of blood is a dishonour to those that gone before and to your country.

We Catholics could take a page or 2 out of the Mormon dedication to the great commands to’ love thy neighbour 'and ‘go forth and spread the Good news’ . I have a great deal of respect for the Mormons.
The more I read from our friendly ‘expert’ visiting us on the topic, to whom I give my thanks, I just feel that aside from there having been additions made to scripture that had existed for over 2000 years before those additions were made that there is also some misunderstanding/ misinterpretation of scripture. I do understand the story of how this initially came about but I really do feel that if a person looks at the history of God for want of a better way of putting it ( meaning not just world History but the whole plan of God’s creation), logic would say that if God Almighty the Creator had wanted His will and His glory to be known He would not have allowed for thousands of years of misinterpretation to continue until finally revealing the whole truth to one person in the 1800s!
Christianity was not really a new revelation it was the fulfillment of revelation ( why we believe in no new revelations that differ in essence to the Gospel). Jesus said that he came to fulfill not abolish. If this was His purpose then WHY would He allow those guided by the Holy Spirit to err? Why would He not ensure there was a bastion of truth that would be preserved to the end of time?

 

[Jerusha]

What, pray tell, would the LDS church consider to be a sin then?

The LDS version of the Adam and Eve story has it all revolving around sex. Adam and Eve did the right thing because without sex there would be no joy. Celibacy in LDS culture is damned as much as homosexuality, fornication, adultery, and masturbation. Most other sins are trivial in comparison. One who tithes 10% of a large income is free to sin more.

In early Mormonism, it was only a chosen few who were allowed to participate in institutionalized adultery.

 

[mwok]

The LDS version of the Adam and Eve story has it all revolving around sex. Adam and Eve did the right thing because without sex there would be no joy. Celibacy in LDS culture is damned as much as homosexuality, fornication, adultery, and masturbation. Most other sins are trivial in comparison. One who tithes 10% of a large income is free to sin more. In early Mormonism, it was only a chosen few who were allowed to participate in institutionalized adultery.

Yes, its seems to me that the entire theology is based on sex. Adam and Eve disobeying God in order to be able to have sex which was to them man’s greatest moment to having infinite sex with your spouse in heaven to produce endless offspring.

 

[Janderich]

Yes, its seems to me that the entire theology is based on sex. Adam and Eve disobeying God in order to be able to have sex which was to them man’s greatest moment to having infinite sex with your spouse in heaven to produce endless offspring.

Jerusha or Mwok,
Do either of you have children? If so, I ask why? Is it because of the above reason?

 

[RebeccaJ]

This has gotten weird.

 

[mwok]

Jerusha or Mwok,
Do either of you have children? If so, I ask why? Is it because of the above reason?

I do, but it’s not because I believe that I am emptying heaven by procreating thus decreasing the amount of time between now and when Christ’s Second Coming(based on the LDS belief that the Last Judgement will occur the moment the last soul enters a body).

I also believe that heaven is so much more than my wife and I.

 

[Janderich]

I do, but it’s not because I believe that I am emptying heaven by procreating thus decreasing the amount of time between now and when Christ’s Second Coming(based on the LDS belief that the Last Judgement will occur the moment the last soul enters a body).

I also believe that heaven is so much more than my wife and I.

So you do have children. You should now consider the second question. Why do you have children?

If you could honestly and truly answer that question then you might catch a glimpse of what we mean be eternal families. And it is clearly not to have eternal sex. Such comments are blasphemous, meant to degrade, and they are extremely unfair. I am continually amazed at what I see coming from religious people on this site.

 

[Jerusha]

So you do have children. You should now consider the second question. Why do you have children?

People have children because of a desire to have offspring who combine the attributes of both parents. The statement of a committed relationship is: “I want to give you a child.” “I want to bear your children.” Having children is a natural result of the sex act, and the love that the parents have for each other.

People should not have children if it is a mere desire to have descendants. That is selfish.

 

[Stephen168]

You should now consider the second question. Why do you have children?

It is part of the natural law of the divine creator that every living thing has a desire to reproduce. Do Mormons believe there are eternal families of plankton and carrots in heaven? Are there kitty intelligences in the pre-existence? What is the pre-existence?

 

[TexanKnight]

So you do have children. You should now consider the second question. Why do you have children?

If you could honestly and truly answer that question then you might catch a glimpse of what we mean be eternal families. And it is clearly not to have eternal sex. Such comments are blasphemous, meant to degrade, and they are extremely unfair. I am continually amazed at what I see coming from religious people on this site.

Well, your problem is with perception. Joseph was caught having an affair with Fanny Alger and, when caught, suddenly had the great idea of polygamy. It was used to COVER UP SEX.

Remember, I was LDS. LDS girls were very good about no drinking, coffee, and drugs, but sex was part of young life.

We have children because they are what comes from our expressions of love. That, and we are commanded to.

It has nothing to do with pre-existence or having our own planets later.

As surprised as you are about what you see on this site, WE, who KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT MORMONISM, are just as surprised at what we see from Mormons. It is like most either do not know true Mormonism, or try to overlook it and cover it up and deny it.

Be Blessed, Janderich

 

[RebeccaJ]

The difference I see is Mormonism views the person as a function. Like a stapler or a pencil. Created to perform a function…procreation.

The Catholic view is that we are created to love God. Procreation is a blessing from God. Not the primary purpose of our creation.

 

[mwok]

So you do have children. You should now consider the second question. Why do you have children?

If you could honestly and truly answer that question then you might catch a glimpse of what we mean be eternal families. And it is clearly not to have eternal sex. Such comments are blasphemous, meant to degrade, and they are extremely unfair. I am continually amazed at what I see coming from religious people on this site.

No, I know what I was taught when I was Mormon. And one of the “blessings” of eternal life was having a wife and the duty to infinitely procreate.

 

[Janderich]

Anyone who believes that Mormonism is primarily about reaching Heaven simply to procreate (“like a stapler or pencil performs a function”) has utterly and completely missed the point. Yes, we believe that we may have children after this life and we marvel at the vastness and extent of it all. But even here on this fallen Earth it should be obvious to anyone that love is what binds a family together and without it only heartache and misery remain. It is love between a parent and a child and between a husband and a wife which is magnified in the eternities.

“It was from him [Joseph] that I learned that the wife of my bosom might be secured to me for time and all eternity; and that the refined sympathies and affections which endeared us to each other emanated from the fountain of divine eternal love. It was from him that I learned that we might cultivate these affections, and grow and increase in the same to all eternity; while the result of our endless union would be an offspring as numerous as the stars of heaven, or the sands of the sea shore. (Autobiography of Parley P. Pratt, pp. 329-330)

 

[mwok]

Anyone who believes that Mormonism is primarily about reaching Heaven simply to procreate (“like a stapler or pencil performs a function”) has utterly and completely missed the point. Yes, we believe that we may have children after this life and we marvel at the vastness and extent of it all. But even here on this fallen Earth it should be obvious to anyone that love is what binds a family together and without it only heartache and misery remain. It is love between a parent and a child and between a husband and a wife which is magnified in the eternities.

God’s love is eternal- that is why the LDS theology on the afterlife misses the point.

If you procreate in heaven then you are adding to eternity, which you cannot do!

GOD is love, not GOD + my additional children

 

[garyo49]

We definitely agree with this statement and believe it applies to the Sons of Perdition. We believe the Sons of Perdition are very few indeed. They are those who have been partakers of Gods glory and have openly denied him. Who have crucified the Lord afresh in their hearts.

In the Doctrine and Covenants Joseph Smith saw outer darkness he says,

As far as the pre-existence is concerned these Sons of Perdition did not rebel against Christ but at least passively accepted the Father’s Plan of Salvation. While on earth they received complete knowledge of God and yet rejected him utterly and entirely. Thus it would have been better for these few never to have received a body here in mortality. They will not recieve a Kingdom of Glory. All the rest of humanity will gain some measure of salvation. The final state of these souls is not completely known.

He also said this below at a time when he and the church was actually practicing polygamy/polyandry. Is he believable? This is to be found in the 1835 edition of the above quoted Doctrine and Covenants. Sort of makes him a lyer just like his Book of Abraham. Also, Jan can you give us the section and verse fo the above quote?

"In as much as this church of Christ (Mormons) has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one husband, except in the case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again." (Doctrine and Covenants. Section 101:4

 

[garyo49]

Today, April 4th, in Mass today the Gospel said of Judas Iscariot:

“It would have been better for that man to have never been born”

What does that mean for the LDS concept of a pre-existence?

Why all of the Mormon questions? Who cares!!