Another priest abuse thread

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As somebody who is 53 and can remember the 60s and 70s and 80s (and was working in the health field from the 70s on) I can tell you that our dear friends the MDs (psychiatrists) and their fellow psychologists and therapists etc. were telling the bishops in the 70s and 80s at least (and THAT is when much of the abuse and ‘switching’ took place) that pedophilia could be cured and part of the cure was giving the person a ‘chance’ to prove himself in a new venue without a ‘record’ hanging over his head.
It boggles my mind that NONE of these MDs is held accountable for giving information on treatment that turned out to be wrong and that instead, the bishop who, in good faith and with perfectly understable acceptance of medical authority of the time, is the one being pilloried.

Right now, I bet y’all have seen the reports that mammograms are NOW being suggested for women to start after age 50, not age 40. That, because of the screening at age 40 that was presented as medical authority and standard for the last many years, many women wound up being worse off and that this is the reason they are now advocating screens at a later age.

So. . .I **presume that y’all are now going to go and sue your doctors because they gave wrong advice for the last 15 to 20 years and more regarding mammograms.

If not, why not? Because they aren’t priests? **
I’d heard something similar too a while back regarding this. It went along the lines that the reason for pedophilia was that the particular priest was attracted to one particular individual and that if removed from that situation by placing them in another parish/school etc. their temptation and attraction would be then gone. I don’t know if this was prevalent thinking in the psychological profession at that time or not, but it is perhaps a reason.

Also, we should remember that these bishops were also having to deal with their friends and brother priests when these allegations surfaced. The natural inclination would be to give them the benefit of doubt and perhaps there was a natural willingness to turn a blind eye and gloss over the problem. Then of course there would’ve been the institutional pressures inherent in dealing with the day to day operations of a large dioceses, financial issues, perhaps pressure from other bishops dealing with similar issues.

It’s all a tragic combination of circumstances where a lot of people followed bad advice and made even worse decisions and a lot of innocent people got hurt.

ChadS
 
First and foremost, acknowlege that any such sexual misconduct is in fact terrible. There’s no denying this, so don’t try to and in fact take that step to point it out. But explain that these people are human, and that this kind of thing can and does happen in all faith groups. Hopefully the person you’re talking to is wise enough to realize this is true, but if they don’t, there are several other examples of religious sex scandle which can be brought up.

The one I personally find the most shocking is the Orthodox Jew sex scandal

jta.org/news/article/2008/03/21/107635/AustraliaLeifer03202008
huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/05/orthodox-jewish-community_n_196699.html?page=6

And it’s not more shacking than the Catholic Preist one because of the fact that they’re Orthodox Jew or any non-sense like that. It’s more shocking because the NY Times was calling on all citizens to Respect them in their time of tribulation, and to respect certain religious sensativities. They also suggested that it would be best for the police to not be involved, and for this to be handled purely internally. Where was all this charitability on the part of the press, and the person questioning you with regard to the Catholic tribulation?

Or maybe the person you’re talking to is a Protestant, then of course there is the Ted Haggard Scandal

msnbc.msn.com/id/15536263/

Among others
nypost.com/seven/09092008/news/nationalnews/o_pastor_in_sex_scandal_128142.htm
woai.com/content/troubleshooters/story.aspx?content_id=0767ec2f-2038-4acb-ba14-b66a8e619e05

Wiki claims to have a list of Evangelical sex scandals
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_evangelist_scandals

Steve Ray in his conversion story CD discusses how his cousin was sodomised by a married evangelical pastor.

Now of course none of this should be pointed out to rub the person questioning you nose in their own dirty laundry. If you’re at this point of having to prove that sex scandals are not exclusivly a Catholic thing, then point all this out for no reason than to do just that. Simply to prove, the Catholic church is not the only one rocked by scandal.

Though, at least we have the assurance that our church will always be there. Protestant congregations are particularly vunerable to these scandals, as typically each parish is a world unto it’s self. If the Pastor falls, the entire church falls.
 
I posted this the other day on my blog – a quote from Bryan Cones (U.S. Catholic)

“What we have still not found, however, is a formula for bringing closure to the crisis itself. While money, information, and attempted apologies have gone some distance toward reconciliation, this tragedy continues to run on two parallel tracks. From the beginning, victims and their advocates, frustrated by dioceses, turned to the courts and the media. Bishops, forced to action by public outrage, responded with the institutional changes found in the 2002 Dallas Charter.

Lost in the shuffle is the fact that the whole church-victims, their advocates, bishops and other leaders, and the rest of the baptized-has yet to sit down together to find a way forward. The great scandal here is that a community whose lifeblood is charity has been duking it out for five years for all the world to see. Surely we can do better.

What we really need is what the victims have been asking for all along: the unedited truth. What really happened? Who knew what and when? Why did they act or fail to act?”

There are legitimate questions here and we need to work to see it is all resolved. We need more than lawyer-crafted court-ordered apologies – let’s face it — a painful conversation still remains. Is anyone denying that?

As Coyne reminds us: “Bishops will have to sideline attorneys and their own fear to acknowledge obvious failure. Victims will have to tone down their rhetoric and accept as the “whole” truth the stories the bishops finally tell. Both sides will have to agree upon a process for handling accusations in the future. Such diocese-by-diocese “truth and reconciliation commissions” may sound a bit far-fetched-and they would be messy — but if they can work in places like post-apartheid South Africa and post-civil war Guatemela, we can do it, too.

Such an accounting would not, of course, preclude paying legitimate damages to future victims, nor would every bishop come out still wearing his miter. But all of us would benefit from a confession freely given rather than coerced through legal machinations and media sensationalism. We may indeed find, as Jesus promises, that the truth will make us free.”

So I think there is a lot more to play out here. For example, Cardinal Law needs to quietly come back to Boston and spend some honest face time (truth and reconciliation commission?) here.

American court settlements do not work for a Church that believes in love and charity. For example, I don’t like it when people speak of cases that have been “settled.” I think that is a piece of fiction and they don’t know what they are talking about. I think people who speak of the “pedophilia” crisis are spin meisters and add NOTHING to the conversation. My priest abuse thread focussed on that.

A lot that Peter Dawson has written is true and the questions that remain after all has been “settled” simply shows that it has not been “settled” in a Christian way.

dj
 
Sorry, Peter, I don’t buy your “pimping” view. I think it’s slanderous and you would do well to cease using the term.

First, you have not substantiated your accusation that bishops moved priests for the purpose of giving them a wider field of sexual opportunity. Could you give me even one documented instance of this as a motivation for a bishop to move a priest?

The fact is, the bishops certainly moved priests around, but it wasn’t for that purpose. It was to hide the problem.

Second, stating that boys were paid for sex is a whole different thing than giving them toys to buy their silence. You say that the media didn’t report much on it because it was unsympathetic. Yet it seems to me that the media would pounce on reporting such a thing because: 1) it shows the priest to be even more heinous and 2) in a such a sensational scandal, nothing would be left unreported – the media is not known for looking the other way when there are juicy details). But you say this did happen and the media did report on it although not much. Could you refer me to even one report?

The fact is, this whole priest scandal is about kids being preyed upon by depraved homosexual priests who were foxes in the henhouse and couldn’t contain themselves from partaking of the goods; and about some bishops who were told that these priests could be cured with counseling, prayer, and giving them a fresh start; and other bishops who just wanted to protect the image of the Church or just not want to deal with the problem by passing it off to the next diocese. For the latter group of bishops, they have a lot to answer for. But “pimping” isn’t one of them.
 
You are continuing to engage in irresponsible speculation.
The Diocese settled that case by paying money to the priest’s multiple victims.
This does not substantiate your implication that the bishop knew the priest was problematic when he made the transfer.
The reason why I placed quotation marks around the word “pimping” the first time I used it is because it is a little bit different.
In our case, the bishop who issued the letter spoken of issued the letter spoken of while our Diocese was being sued in several other cases involving several other priests for whom letters were issued.
In regular pimping, the pimp abets sex to make money for himself. So, they abet sex involving an exchange of money.
In the case of the priests, the bishops did what they did not to make money for themselves, but to protect sexual predators while THEY, the predators, paid out church money to their victims, and then the BISHOP pays out money AGAIN to the same people as victims in the lawsuits.
No, in fact, it is a wholly other thing. First of all, the word abet means “to assist”; pimps do not “assist” sex; they rent out the use of girls for sex and take the majority of the money, often using violence to keep their girls “in line”. This is completely unlike the Church’s sex scandal, and your comparison is not only totally inaccurate, but totally inappropriate and disrespectful to the office of bishop.
If the bishops continued writing letters, knowing that, nationwide, the sexual predator priests were continuing to prey upon post-pubescent young men in new parishes, and knowing that nationwide the Church was being SUED for the writing of those letters and the continuation of the sexual preying by the sexual predator priests, and if many of the letters were written WHILE the letter-writing bishop himself was being sued for writing the letters in other cases (!!!), how unjust is the word “pimping” in quotations?
It’s not.
The use of quotation marks does not make an irresponsible statement responsible. It does not make an inaccurate statement accurate. It certainly does not make an outrageous statement palatable.

The fact is that, regardless of whether bishops were aware of the problem they were perpetuating by transferring offending priests, they were NOT pimping or doing anything even remotely comparable to it. Thus, to make the comparison – even while using scare quotes improperly – is wildly inappropriate.
I’ll bet you that even today, after the American Church has paid out about $1 billion to victims, there are some bishops writing letters.
Why do I say this?
Because there have been no mass firings of homosexual priests, and male homosexuals tend to be innately promiscuous – they can’t control themselves.
That University of Chicago study found that the average homosexual male interviewed had had about 100 “correspondents” – sex partners. (Remember: The promiscuity problem was so bad among homosexuals that the study had to assign 15 sex contacts or fewer to the word “celibate” or a word like “celibate” … “chaste,” maybe? ( – it’s been about 5 years since I read the study).
That homosexual priests are, as you say, “innately promiscuous” and “can’t control themselves” may be true. It does not, however, exonerate your previous comparison of bishops to “pimps”.
You asked up above if the priests paid money to their victims. Yup. That was the practice. They would reach into the collection basket, and buy expensive “toys” – bikes, TVs, vacations, and so on – or just give them cash.
It wasn’t just bad boy priests sneaking off into the closet with kids at the family gatherings. Those were rare. Those were the ones the press wrote about, because they were sympathetic. The press didn’t write about the UNsympathetic cases very much – where the little thugs having sex with the priests were even telling their juvenile delinquent friends, “Hey, let me tell you where to make some easy money…!!!”
I was asked to investigate three cases. In all three cases the victims were post-pubescent boys with juvenile records who walked TO their parish’s rectory repeatedly, dropped their pants for the priest repeatedly, and were paid money or given “toys” repeatedly. They were sex-for-money relationships. All three boys were paid money in our Diocese’s lawsuit. They may in fact be vikctims, but frequently – most of the time, I believe, based on what I have seen and read – it’s not pretty.
SUBSTANTIATE your claims. You cannot use your own experience as a source when making an affirmative statement that “X is true in all or most cases”. You must use a verifiable source, and share it with your audience – otherwise your argument has no credibility.

In a discussion of a topic this sensitive, one must be particularly vigilant about one’s sources.

(cont. below)
 
(cont. from above)
Re my hint that the bishops were moving predator priests around SO THAT the priests could have greater sexual opportunities…
That you would even THINK about making this accusation is totally outrageous. That you would “hint” at it is, at best, pernicious and disingenuous. We are, as Catholics, bound by our Church’s teachings to assume the best about people when we don’t know all of the facts.

From the Catechism (emphasis added):
2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury.278 He becomes guilty:
  • of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;
  • of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;279
  • of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.
2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way
What is the difference between
(1) sending a priest with a very thick file recording multiple complaints of sexual offenses as well as multiple broken “I’ll - be - a - good - boy - from - now - on” promises to a new unwary flock with a written recommendation, WHILE you are being sued for priests you RECEIVED from other Dioceses with letters of recommendation, and
(2) knowingly abetting sexual activity by sexual predator priests?
Not much. That’s the basis of the lawsuits.
Really? You have to ask this question? What is the difference between mistakenly enabling someone to sin and deliberately doing so?

Do you REALLY think there is no difference? This is Catholic Morality 101: to be guilty of a sin, you have to know it is a sin.
Do you think that the letter writing bishops are perfectly innocent victims???
Sorry. The files of the offending priests, containing the bishops’ own signatures numerous times, were sometimes VERY thick.
Those memos in the priests’ files bearing the bishops’ signatures are the “star of the show” in the court cases. Usually the bishops had minions write and sign administrative memos in the priest’s files.
A certain percentage of the time, however, the bishops “got lazy” and signed memos themselves.
More unsubstantiated accusations? Please provide documentation of these claims.
There is something else everyone overlooks in considering how much the bishops and the priests in their staff knew, when they wrote the letters.
The confessional.
Without breaking the seal by naming names, they undoubtedly got a handle on the scale of the problem, and talked about it generally without betraying specifics, after priests hear each other’s confessions.
Are you suggesting that they should have broken that seal because sinners were hurting people? The seal is absolute – it cannot be broken for any reason, and I, for one, am thankful that my sins will never be shared.
Do you know why entire Dioceses are declaring bankruptcy in response to the lawsuits?
Because our bishops knew enough to be held guilty of negligence.
They’re paying money because they are guilty as charged – not innocent.
A common characteristic of the lawsuits is the required promise by the victim to keep his mouth shut after he gets his money.
Who do you think that promise is intended to hide facts from?
So nobody has ever settled a lawsuit because it would’ve been prohibitively expensive to fight for one’s good name?

Everyone who has ever paid out a lawsuit was “guilty as charged”?

People who insist on a gag order always have something to hide? It’s not possible that they merely want to prevent their names from being unjustly dragged in the mud?

Every bishop who is implicated in this scandal was fully aware of the implications of his actions?

Every person ever found legally liable for something has also been morally culpable?

This line of thinking, regardless of your experience in these investigations (for your participation in which, by the way, we only have your word), is at best irresponsible; to make such outrageous claims and spurious accusations borders on calumny – not to mention the dishonor you do to the bishops themselves, whom we owe our respect by virtue of their office.

Peace,
Dante
 
Sorry, Peter, I don’t buy your “pimping” view. I think it’s slanderous and you would do well to cease using the term.

First, you have not substantiated your accusation that bishops moved priests for the purpose of giving them a wider field of sexual opportunity. Could you give me even one documented instance of this as a motivation for a bishop to move a priest?

The fact is, the bishops certainly moved priests around, but it wasn’t for that purpose. It was to hide the problem.

Second, stating that boys were paid for sex is a whole different thing than giving them toys to buy their silence. You say that the media didn’t report much on it because it was unsympathetic. Yet it seems to me that the media would pounce on reporting such a thing because: 1) it shows the priest to be even more heinous and 2) in a such a sensational scandal, nothing would be left unreported – the media is not known for looking the other way when there are juicy details). But you say this did happen and the media did report on it although not much. Could you refer me to even one report?

The fact is, this whole priest scandal is about kids being preyed upon by depraved homosexual priests who were foxes in the henhouse and couldn’t contain themselves from partaking of the goods; and about some bishops who were told that these priests could be cured with counseling, prayer, and giving them a fresh start; and other bishops who just wanted to protect the image of the Church or just not want to deal with the problem by passing it off to the next diocese. For the latter group of bishops, they have a lot to answer for. But “pimping” isn’t one of them.
You’ve never been lied to by a bishop on the subject.

I have.

One of the jokes by people who take their cars to a body shop for a $2,000 facelift is that inside it’s still a jalopy costing $500 a throw every time it breaks down.

Beware of assuming that just because a car has a nice finish that it has a good motor.

Beware of assuming that just because we call someone “Your Eminence” that he is eminent.

I can tell that you haven’t done much research into the problem.
 
Hi, friends.

Look, when a new bishop writes a recommendation letter for a homosexual sexual predator priest with a thick file the first time, maybe its “negligence,” a “mistake.”

But where its “raining sexual predator priests” in your Diocese, because you’re getting back by written recommendation as many as you have shipped out by written recommendation, and your signature appears on memos about sexual predation by that priest more than once in a thick file on the priest in the bishop’s office, is shipping the priest out of town with a written recommendation a “mistake”?

No.

In the Philadelphia Diocese, the evidence of calloused written recommendations by bishops who knew was so bad that the District Attorney came ver-r-r-r-r-r-ry close to criminally prosecuting the letter-writing bishops and chancellors.

Is it negligence for Catholic lay people to “assume” the best, when the American Catholic Church has admitted to at least 50,000 victims so far? (That 50,000 is not even a statistical projection. All they did is count raw cases in which priests were successfully criminally prosecuted or where the Church paid out cash – i.e., the undeniable cases.

The admitted-to numbers are already at the “holocaust level.” The true numbers would probably be a good double of what has been admitted to. Why? How many men want to stand up and be counted as someone who dropped his pants for a homosexual, for a few bucks?

So, yes, it is negligence for lay people to assume the best about their bishops.

We deserve to lose our churches, to the extent that we leave the foxes in the henhouse.

Stop working overtime defending the Church on this one.

It’s not defensible.
 
Please show me proof of the 50,000 of which you speak.

TIA,
Heather
 
I am not defending any bishops or priests for what they have done. I think I made that clear in my posts. I am defending the Church against false characterizations made by you. That is not “assuming the best” about our bishops. Just because these people are guilty of one thing doesn’t mean you are free to further denigrate them by characterizing their actions as something else. Your anger at the Church is understandable but completely inappropriately expressed. Be angry at what they did, not what you are making up that they did. And you are indeed making it up if you cannot and will not substantiate your accusations.

Furthermore, your view that these victims willingly “dropped their pants” as you so often phrase it is another gross mischaracterization of the flip side (the victim side as opposed to the clergy side) of this scandal. These victims were not willing participants. They were preyed upon by the perpetrator priests, and their continuing compliance to the acts have to do with the psychology of being abused, not their willingness to have sex.
 
Hi, friends.

Look, when a new bishop writes a recommendation letter for a homosexual sexual predator priest with a thick file the first time, maybe its “negligence,” a “mistake.”

But where its “raining sexual predator priests” in your Diocese, because you’re getting back by written recommendation as many as you have shipped out by written recommendation, and your signature appears on memos about sexual predation by that priest more than once in a thick file on the priest in the bishop’s office, is shipping the priest out of town with a written recommendation a “mistake”?

No.

In the Philadelphia Diocese, the evidence of calloused written recommendations by bishops who knew was so bad that the District Attorney came ver-r-r-r-r-r-ry close to criminally prosecuting the letter-writing bishops and chancellors.

Is it negligence for Catholic lay people to “assume” the best, when the American Catholic Church has admitted to at least 50,000 victims so far? (That 50,000 is not even a statistical projection. All they did is count raw cases in which priests were successfully criminally prosecuted or where the Church paid out cash – i.e., the undeniable cases.

The admitted-to numbers are already at the “holocaust level.” The true numbers would probably be a good double of what has been admitted to. Why? How many men want to stand up and be counted as someone who dropped his pants for a homosexual, for a few bucks?

So, yes, it is negligence for lay people to assume the best about their bishops.

We deserve to lose our churches, to the extent that we leave the foxes in the henhouse.

Stop working overtime defending the Church on this one.

It’s not defensible.
We are not “defending the Church on this one” – we are standing up against unsupported, unsubstantiated, hyperbolic, biased, and rash claims.

Peter, I cannot stress this enough: you are being irresponsible by making these claims with no proof. This “holocaust level” and “50,000” nonsense has got to stop if you want people to take your point. Otherwise, back up your claims and lay off the hyperbole.

I also find it interesting that you did not address the points that I made in my previous posts. The logical fallacies and outrageous claims you made are the issue here, Peter – NOT the conduct or knowledge of bishops.

Peace,
Dante
 
Is this 50,000 of legally verifiable victims? What I mean is that some dioceses were offereing compensation to any body that had at least a credible claim, regardless of whether the accused priest had been dead for years or the statute of limitations had run out. Certainly some of these claims may have had little or no substance to them, but they lucked out getting included with the real victims. It seemed to me that through a lot of this while many people were calling out for justice they were unwilling to allow the Church their day in court or due process.

ChadS
 
I am still interested in where the 50k comes from. I haven’t seen this number thrown around before.

TIA,
Heather
 
Peter, you claim to have been lied to by one bishop. (and we have been careful to note that nobody is saying that at least one instance among all this could indeed have been a deliberate ‘sin’ on the part of any one bishop).

As others have noted, it is not only scandalous but possibly libelous for you to extrapolate your personal experience (which could even be incorrect even if you feel it is not) onto every single bishop who dealt with every single case in this scandal. Which is basically what you are doing.

That is not logical reasoning. And it does nothing to help the situation for anyone, in any way whatsoever. It does not help others to see the actual facts involved when well-intentioned but biased partisans insist on piling misinformation on misinformation and calling it fact.

It’s especially disheartening to see this from Catholics.

We should be (and I think many are) trying to ascertain the actual truth (as opposed to constant media ‘dis-information’, whether it is honestly thought to be accurate or not) and we should be (while as always thinking of ALL victims, sorrowful for ALL sins, and doing our best to explain without EXCUSE) firm in showing where these ‘allegations’ go wrong, and why. Such putatively well-intentioned but again, inaccurate, unhelpful, and hateful reiterations attempting to portray ALL bishops without exception as knowingly sending off ‘rogue priests’ to abuse innocents and doing so with malice, greed, and full knowledge of what was ‘going’ to happen. . .are most often falsehoods which are just as sinful (in that they are either known to be false, or are deliberately twisted and presented because the ‘end’ to which this is being driven is considered as justifying the means.) as any other ‘sinful’ action. .Further, you may not realize it but often that end is multifactorial, everything from simple anti clericalism to outright malicious intent to–if possible- call for the abolition of the entire Catholic Church on the grounds of the ‘actions’ of these bishops. . .

Without fully realizing it, every time that a person swallows unacceptingly the assumptions that ‘all bishops’ knew the ‘rogues’ were not curable and maliciously sent them off knowing that they WOULD abuse again, and passes on that misinformation as an ‘acknowledged fact’. . .that person is engaged in cooperation in sin. We have the responsibility to do our best to ensure that what we hold to be true–regarding ANYTHING–is actually true. . . not simply to take it on ‘face value’.
 
I feel sorry for you, Peter. At least many of the victims in these cases are trying by whatever means they can, some aided, some not by the Church, to find forgiveness. The day will come when each one of us needs to be the recipient of tons of mercy our willful and ignorant actions fly in the face of. I would not want to be in that spot while bitterly clinging to “those who trespass against us.” Food for thought.

A Bishop lied to you? Well, do you think there is a special set of 10 commandments for Bishops only, a set that does not include this as a sin before Almighty God? If not, then what are you carrying on for? Is your God incapable of handling this, or does he require you to smear bitterness about it all over public forums in order to bolster your incredible grasp of how bad a situation is, as though we already have not discovered enough of it to know it was a problem?

Christ verbally “issued a letter” on behalf of the guy who rejected Him 3 times, a man with a history of rash decisions and violence against others (cutting of the ear with a sword). By this standard you are holding, Christ knowingly and with some kind of malice turned loose on His Church - all of us - this lying Bishop maniac, and irresponsibly handed him the keys with which to loose and bind. Forget the good Peter accomplished - the Pentecost speech, bringing the gospel to the Gentiles; none of that should matter, right? Interesting isn’t it, that in that very story in Acts 10 where Peter brings Gentiles into the faith, it is specifically because he gets a message that what God has called clean, Peter (and no one else) is to call unclean.

So it’s decision time. Either God put that Bishop in place for His own purposes, or it’s a random event in a universe that is has no more significance than me attaching a stamp to an envelope right-side up. It just happened. IF God chose that Bishop, for whatever good or evil acts he does, who are we to stand in the way of that plan by hanging onto only the failings, with our imperfect understanding of them?

No one is claiming there wasn’t lots of fault, bad decisions, even attempts to hide information. The point of it is, it is out in the open, and now we all have to do what we can to help heal those wounds.
 
WHOA!

How did we get from at least one bishop, known by P.Dawson, to ‘some’ bishops (by implication) to the ENTIRE bishopric lineage?

Good debate though. It is healthy to thrash matters out to sift facts from the multiple layers of ‘add-ons’

:cool:
 
The Diocese settled that case by paying money to the priest’s multiple victims.

The reason why I placed quotation marks around the word “pimping” the first time I used it is because it is a little bit different.

In our case, the bishop who issued the letter spoken of issued the letter spoken of while our Diocese was being sued in several other cases involving several other priests for whom letters were issued.

In regular pimping, the pimp abets sex to make money for himself. So, they abet sex involving an exchange of money.

In the case of the priests, the bishops did what they did not to make money for themselves, but to protect sexual predators while THEY, the predators, paid out church money to their victims, and then the BISHOP pays out money AGAIN to the same people as victims in the lawsuits.

If the bishops continued writing letters, knowing that, nationwide, the sexual predator priests were continuing to prey upon post-pubescent young men in new parishes, and knowing that nationwide the Church was being SUED for the writing of those letters and the continuation of the sexual preying by the sexual predator priests, and if many of the letters were written WHILE the letter-writing bishop himself was being sued for writing the letters in other cases (!!!), how unjust is the word “pimping” in quotations?

It’s not.

I’ll bet you that even today, after the American Church has paid out about $1 billion to victims, there are some bishops writing letters.

Why do I say this?

Because there have been no mass firings of homosexual priests, and male homosexuals tend to be innately promiscuous – they can’t control themselves.

That University of Chicago study found that the average homosexual male interviewed had had about 100 “correspondents” – sex partners. (Remember: The promiscuity problem was so bad among homosexuals that the study had to assign 15 sex contacts or fewer to the word “celibate” or a word like “celibate” … “chaste,” maybe? ( – it’s been about 5 years since I read the study).

You asked up above if the priests paid money to their victims. Yup. That was the practice. They would reach into the collection basket, and buy expensive “toys” – bikes, TVs, vacations, and so on – or just give them cash.

It wasn’t just bad boy priests sneaking off into the closet with kids at the family gatherings. Those were rare. Those were the ones the press wrote about, because they were sympathetic. The press didn’t write about the UNsympathetic cases very much – where the little thugs having sex with the priests were even telling their juvenile delinquent friends, “Hey, let me tell you where to make some easy money…!!!”

I was asked to investigate three cases. In all three cases the victims were post-pubescent boys with juvenile records who walked TO their parish’s rectory repeatedly, dropped their pants for the priest repeatedly, and were paid money or given “toys” repeatedly. They were sex-for-money relationships. All three boys were paid money in our Diocese’s lawsuit. They may in fact be vikctims, but frequently – most of the time, I believe, based on what I have seen and read – it’s not pretty.

Re my hint that the bishops were moving predator priests around SO THAT the priests could have greater sexual opportunities…

What is the difference between

(1) sending a priest with a very thick file recording multiple complaints of sexual offenses as well as multiple broken “I’ll - be - a - good - boy - from - now - on” promises to a new unwary flock with a written recommendation, WHILE you are being sued for priests you RECEIVED from other Dioceses with letters of recommendation, and

(2) knowingly abetting sexual activity by sexual predator priests?

Not much. That’s the basis of the lawsuits.

Do you think that the letter writing bishops are perfectly innocent victims???

Sorry. The files of the offending priests, containing the bishops’ own signatures numerous times, were sometimes VERY thick.

Those memos in the priests’ files bearing the bishops’ signatures are the “star of the show” in the court cases. Usually the bishops had minions write and sign administrative memos in the priest’s files.

A certain percentage of the time, however, the bishops “got lazy” and signed memos themselves.

There is something else everyone overlooks in considering how much the bishops and the priests in their staff knew, when they wrote the letters.

The confessional.

Without breaking the seal by naming names, they undoubtedly got a handle on the scale of the problem, and talked about it generally without betraying specifics, after priests hear each other’s confessions.

Do you know why entire Dioceses are declaring bankruptcy in response to the lawsuits?

Because our bishops knew enough to be held guilty of negligence.

They’re paying money because they are guilty as charged – not innocent.

A common characteristic of the lawsuits is the required promise by the victim to keep his mouth shut after he gets his money.

Who do you think that promise is intended to hide facts from?
i agree with most of what you said. the Bishops have become mundane, just look at their actions. if they were guarding the Church, they would have the Church first and not men. by moving these predators around, they were just spreading the problem. it does not take a scientist to know this. psichologist, psychiatrists should not be ones to advice the Church but God Alone.

I think we can pretty know what is really going wiht those leading the Church. they have forgotten God and are living by their own knowledge and arrogance. they have forgotten the Laws of God.

May God have Mercy upon His Church and send us holy shepperds very soon.
 
i agree with most of what you said. the Bishops have become mundane, just look at their actions. if they were guarding the Church, they would have the Church first and not men. by moving these predators around, they were just spreading the problem. it does not take a scientist to know this. psichologist, psychiatrists should not be ones to advice the Church but God Alone.

I think we can pretty know what is really going wiht those leading the Church. they have forgotten God and are living by their own knowledge and arrogance. they have forgotten the Laws of God.

May God have Mercy upon His Church and send us holy shepperds very soon.
The majority of ‘shepherds’ remain FAITHFUL to their Master and trust that He will, as He Wills. It is why they, like the laity, suffer the decisions of those in positions of influence within the prelature. The problem has been that it only needed a few in the right places to cause such ‘filth’ to be widespread.

:cool:
 
Number of allegations
The number of alleged abuses increased in the 1960s, peaked in the 1970s, declined in the 1980s and by the 1990s had returned to the levels of the 1950s.

Of the 11,000 allegations reported by bishops in the John Jay study, 3300 were not investigated because the allegations were made after the accused priest had died. 6700 allegations were substantiated, leaving 1000 which could not be substantiated.

According to the John Jay report, one-third of the accusations were made in the years 2002-3. Another third of the allegations were reported between 1993 and 2001.

That’s Wikipedia citing the Jay Report

This is a quote from the Jay Report:

"The handwritten annotations on the surveys indicated that for 1,671 priests the allegations were thought to be credible, and not credible for 345 priests.

9,281 Victim Surveys had information about an investigation. In 6,696 cases, or 72%, an investigation of the allegation was carried out.

Of the alleged incidents investigated by the dioceses and religious communities, a definitive result of the investigation was reported for 5,681 cases. Of these cases, 4,570, or 80%, were substantiated; 1,028, or 18%, were unsubstantiated; 83, or 1.5%, were found to be false. Priests were reported to deny the allegations in 56 cases. Of the investigations that did not produce a definitive result, in many cases the priest was deceased at the time of the allegation or the investigation was ongoing at the time the survey was submitted to the study.

When all Cleric Surveys are considered, 27% of all priests subject to an allegation had their ministry restricted by a superior. The figures that follow show the distribution of responses and actions by the Church to allegations of abuse. The percentages apply to the number of surveys within each subgroup that had a response."

Taken from reading selections (stuff I found interesting) here:

payingattentiontothesky.com/2009/10/26/reading-selections-the-nature-and-scope-of-the-problem-of-sexual-abuse-of-minors-by-catholic-priests-and-deacons-in-the-united-states/

So it seems even these numbers don’t match. As for 50,000 – that’s must be from whitehouse.gov…

dj
 
How does a faithful Catholic respond to the fact that bishops allowed known offenders to be transferred to other parishes?
Back then there was a lot of belief in psychology. The offenders were sent to tharapy and when the psycologists said they wer ‘cured’ they were then place in a new parish. As it turns out, that type of abuse can’t be cured and they need to be locked up to keep them away from innocents, which is the current approach. Hindsight indicates that the psycologists didn’t know what they were talking about.
 
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