Another reply from Anti-Catholic Father in law

[Roman_Catholic_1]

My future father in law answered our email. Want to know what every feels should be said in response.

Looking for a response to this. Doesnt really bring up any problems just a lot of speculations and more misconceptions. He says to follow him but than goes on to say not to trust a man cloacked in religion (a Father) but to use her own intellect. Hmmmmm. remember we are trying to be charitable with the hope to rid him of some misconceptions

Thanks

I have a question for you,Why do you choose to believe what some man wearing a chock collar and a black robe professing to be a holy man and follow a religion you no nothing about instead of believe me your father that has read the bible for over 20 years and the biblical gospel that I try to share with you?Have I ever steered you wrong? We can agree to disagree with out blowing gaskets.I would say to you before you commit to a religion you no nothing about to get an objective view point.You are an intelligent young women you owe it to your self! I would not put my faith in any thing but Christ and Christ alone.You need to search the scriptures alone not with a twist that the Cathlic Church will put on it please!

Are you aware that if you miss one mass it is a mortal sin and with out your confession to a preist they say you are damned! What is that.When you confessed your sin to God in Jesus name He forgave you your sin why is it they The Catholic church say that now you have to go and confess to a preist,this does not make any sense.Did you come to faith by first beliveing in Christ or by works.You came by faith so why is it now you are trying to
obtain your salvation by works that is what they teach check it out.

It is true that Roman Catholism and Christianity have many simular believes with the exception of some very important basic doctorines,did you know that they say it is a sin to think you are going to heaven yep check it out it is a sin of prosumption to think that you could go to heaven they say you go to a place called pugitory,it’s not even in the bible.What is up with that?

One more thing what do you believe is you stance on Justification,Grace and Faith these are the KEY areas that they are way out.Check it out for your self.I will challenge the catholic church because I belive based on WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY they are wrong.PLease do not be a baby bird and just eat whatever they feed you,just because it is clothed in a very nice package of pompus self righteous religion.What do you think? you better look in to this and read your BIBLE! It is the perfect infallible word of GOD not What some man tells you,come on think about it you are smarter then that.
I love you with all my heart…talk to me…Dad

 

[Pax]

You will have some difficulty in your discussions with your father-in-law until you can get him to stop taking a shotgun approach in his questions to you. I will give you the best I have on confession and you can relay that to him. Since he has raised other questions please feel free to send me an email request and I can supply you with a response to each of his attacks/questions. Moreover, you can search the tracts on Catholic.com and other websites for responses to him as well.

In the meantime give him the following on confession. This explanation was organized and developed by John Martignoni. I have summarized it and added a couple of tweaks of my own. It’s as follows:

Confessing to a priest.

The reason we do this is because that is the way God set things up. Let me explain.

In the book of Genesis we read all about the fall of Adam and Eve and about Cain killing Able. While God knew exactly what had happened and what sins had been committed, God still asks Adam and Eve [see Gen 3:11-14] what they had done. Again, when Cain kills Able in Gen 4:10, God asks Cain “What have you done?” God wants us to confess and it is therefore necessary for us to do so.

So where does the priest fit in? In Leviticus 5:5-6 we have a solid prefiguring/foreshadowing of confession and this is carried over into the New Covenant. In Lev. 5:5-6 it says, “When a man is guilty in any of these, he shall confess the sin he has committed, and he shall bring his guilt offering to the Lord for the sin which he has committed, a female from the flock, a lamb or a goat, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin.” Note how the penitent must confess and take his sin offering to the priest, and the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin. This requires knowledge of the sin on the part of the priest.

In the New Testament we have a number of verses that refer to the authority to forgive sins. In Matthew 9:6-8, we read “But that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins”–he then said to the paralytic --“Rise, take up your bed and go home.” And he rose and went home. When the crowds saw it, they were afraid, and they glorified God, who had given such authority to men." Notice how scripture says that such authority had been given to men. This is significant and is not merely a coincidence. This is the inspired word of God.

The question of authority and power to forgive sin is given obviously to Jesus and this is further affirmed in Matthew 28:18 where we are told, "And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.”

So just how is this authority transfered to the apostles and their successors? In John 20:21-23 "Jesus said to them, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” This is an incredible set of verses. They are rich in meaning and power. Notice that Jesus sends the apostles in the same way that the Father sent Him. The Father sent Jesus with all power and authority which included the power to forgive sins. So also Jesus sends the apostles. Jesus breathes on the apostles and says, “receive the Holy Spirit.” There is only one other time in all of scripture where God breathes on man, and that is in Genesis when God breathes life into Adam. This is a significant moment in the upper room and it is at this moment that Jesus says, “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven: if you retain the sins of any they are retained.”

Later in the new testament scriptures we find additional verses that speak to confession and reconciliation. The most significant are the following:
2 Corinthians 5: 17-20
Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. So we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We beseech you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
James 5:14-15
Is any among you sick? Let him call for the presbyters [priests] of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. James 5:16
Therefore confess you sins to one another….

 

[DeFide]

Roman_Catholic:

My future father in law answered our email. Want to know what every feels should be said in response.

Looking for a response to this. Doesnt really bring up any problems just a lot of speculations and more misconceptions. He says to follow him but than goes on to say not to trust a man cloacked in religion (a Father) but to use her own intellect. Hmmmmm. remember we are trying to be charitable with the hope to rid him of some misconceptions

Thanks

You might want to start with this quote:

“There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church, which is, of course, quite a different thing.”

You could replace the “hate” with “disagree with” and it’d probably apply depending on his perspective. Tell him that he just happens to belong to the latter group. If you think it wouldn’t cause too many confrontational feelings, invite him to correspond with you about one issue at a time.

You might ask him if he’d like to start with Sola Scriptura, but be open to other topics, just make sure you deal with one topic at a time. You have plenty of resources at Catholic.com and other links.

If he’s not open to correspondence or if it causes too much tension, I suppose you could just send him some books, like Home Sweet Home by Scott & Kimberly Hahn, or Catholicism and Fundamentalism by Karl Keating, or even invite him to Catholic Answers Forum.

 

[alexaustralia]

Hi Roman-Catholic,

I don’t know your background so it is hard to know how to tackle you father in law’s note.

Firstly catholics do not believe one guy, we believe in the Church tradition (Scripture and oral) and Magisterium. He might have 20 years “experience” the Church has 2,000 years studying the living word of God.

Even though I have always been Catholic it has only been in the last 5 years that I have studied my faith and have become convinced that it is the true faith. I can’t give explanations to all the objections (currently at work) but be sure that all of them can be STRONGLY discredited.

I recommend you to read

NOT BY SCRIPTURE ALONE
A Catholic Critique of the Protestant Doctrine of Sola Scriptura
by Robert A. Sungenis

Contributors

Philip Blosser, Ph.D.
Robert Fastiggi, Ph.D.
Joseph A. Gallegos
Patrick Madrid
Rev. Mitchell Pacwa, S.J., Ph.D.
Mark P.Shea
Very Rev. Peter M. J. Stravinskas Ph.D., S.T.L.
Robert A. Sungenis M.A.

He also has 2 other books

NOT BY FAITH ALONE and NOT BY BREAD ALONE (eucharist)

I will later on (at home) have time to go over the objections in detail if no one else has given satisfactory explenations to your queries.

Cheers,

Alex

 

[Pax]

Your father-in-law will have many discussions with you concerning how we are justified/saved. Since he believes that we are saved by “faith alone” you can challenge him with the following:

The biggest problem that I have with the argument that we are saved by faith “alone” is as follows:

First of all scripture never says that we are saved by faith alone, but it does say that we are “not saved by faith alone”.[James 2:24]

Beyond this we can see from scripture that arguments can be made that we are saved by means other than faith. I will present a number of arguments using scripture that follow the pattern of the argument for salvation by faith “alone.” All of the arguments have similar logic in that they focus on only one item and they all depend on selective use of scripture.

So how are we saved?
faith? grace ? baptism? hope? works? obedience? Love? sanctification?]

BY FAITH
1 Cor 1:21
For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, God decided, through the foolishness of our proclamation, to save those who believe.

Rom 3:28
For we hold that a person is justified by faith apart from works prescribed by the law.

Rom 10:10
For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved.

BY GRACE
Eph 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God–not the result of works, so that no one may boast.

Rom 3:24
they are now justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

Eph 2:4-6
the great love with which he loved us even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved-and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ

WORKS–
Matt 16:24-27
Then Jesus told his disciples, "If any want to become my followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. For those who want to save their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will find it. For what will it profit them if they gain the whole world but forfeit their life? Or what will they give in return for their life? "For the Son of Man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay everyone for what has been done.

1 Tim 4:16
Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; continue in these things, for in doing this you will save both yourself and your hearers.

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works…

James 1:21-22
Therefore rid yourselves of all sordidness and rank growth of wickedness, and welcome with meekness the implanted word that has the power to save. But be doers of the word, and not merely hearers who deceive themselves.

James 5:20
you should know that whoever brings back a sinner from wandering will save the sinner’s soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

BY BAPTISM
Acts: 2:40-41
And he testified with many other arguments and exhorted them, saying, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” So those who welcomed his message were baptized, and that day about three thousand persons were added.

Rom 6:4
Therefore we have been buried with him by baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

1 Peter 3:21
And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you-not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ

John 3:5
Jesus answered, "Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.

BY HOPE
Rom 8:24
For we are saved by hope:

Eph 1:11-12
In Christ we have also obtained an inheritance, having been destined according to the purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to his counsel and will, so that we, who were the first to set our hope on Christ, might live for the praise of his glory.

Col 1:5-6
You have heard of this hope before in the word of the truth, the gospel that has come to you. Just as it is bearing fruit and growing in the whole world, so it has been bearing fruit among yourselves from the day you heard it and truly comprehended the grace of God.

Titus 3:6-7
This Spirit he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Heb 3:6
Christ, however, was faithful over God’s house as a son, and we are his house if we hold firm the confidence and the pride that belong to hope.

Heb 6:11 And we want each one of you to show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope to the very end,

cont. on next post

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I just wrote up this response for here what does everything think? I used alot from Catholic Answers so I thank the web site. I just wanted to make sure I didnt say anything that contradicted the Church. I am only in RCIA. Let me know what you think.

Pax great idea I told him in the future to do one argument at a time.

Della I will ask him to discuss Sola Scriptura. Should I say anyhting or just ask him to tell me about it?

Dad I have found no reason to believe that the Catholic Church was not established by Jesus Christ. My interpretations of scripture has lead me to the Church. Isnt that what Sola Scriptura is about? If I am not afforded my own interpretation what does that say about the doctrine of Sola Scriptura?

I follow Father Fred no more than a Lutheran or a Baptist would follow their minister. Catholics understand that priest are human and capable of sin like anyother man. Pope John Paul II confessed daily, this doesnt sound to me like a man who considered himself above others. In fact the label of the Pope is “The servant of the servants of God”

God instituted confession. The sacrament is rooted in the mission God gave to Christ in his capacity as the Son of man on earth to go and forgive sins (cf. Matt. 9:6). Thus, the crowds who witnessed this new power “glorified God, who had given such authority to men” (Matt. 9:8; notice the plural “men”). After his resurrection, Jesus passed on his mission to forgive sins to his ministers, telling them, “As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. . . . Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained” (John 20:21–23). Confession is required or Christ would not have commanded it. Since the early church, confession to a priest has always been practiced. You should read up on what the Church fathers had to say about it.

Church is an opportunity to hear the Gospel. People should not be missing church and that is all I am going to say about this. You miss church, you miss out hearing the Gospel which is what God commanded.

I am not trying to gain my salvation by works. I already told you that the Catholic Church teaches salvation by the grace of God. As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13)

I looked up presumption which for our purposes means to take for granted. Yes it is a sin to believe that by supernatural powers you can attain salvation. I never would have thought you wouldnt have disagreed with this. As I indicated earlier salvation is by the grace of God. Believing that you can get into heaven without deserving it (repenting for your sins) and using supernatural measure to attain your own salvation, if it isnt a sin it should be.

Purgatory is perfectly scriptural. While the word itself is not in scripture the concept is. Also help me find the word “Trinity” or “Bible” These are concepts, like purgatory which are found in the Bible but you will not find it by its name. Catholic doctrine takes seriously the notion that nothing unclean will get into heaven. Purgatory is not a third destination. Its not a place where those not good enough to get into heaven or bad enough to get into hell go. If you are in the state of mortal sin at death, a sin that breaks the relationship between you and God you will go to hell. You either got to heaven or hell when you die. Those in purgatory are assured of their salvation. There are tons of scriptural references for this, but I dont want to get into Bible verse ping pong. Just know that I have used scripture to support my belief in purgatory and just not accepted it blindly. Sola Scriptura if you will.

If I missed any of your other problems I am sorry. They were not ignored purposely. Next time send one thing at a time, it would make the emails easier to answer and get through.

 

[Pax]

cont. from prior post

BY OBEDIENCE
Deu 7:9-10
Know therefore that the LORD your God is God, the faithful God who maintains covenant loyalty with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations, and who repays in their own person those who reject him.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure God’s wrath.

Acts 5:32
And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey him."

Heb 5:9
and having been made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him,

Matt 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

1 Peter 1: 2
to the exiles…who have been chosen and destined by God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit to be obedient to Jesus Christ and to be sprinkled with his blood:

Rev 12:17
Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her children, those who keep the commandments of God and hold the testimony of Jesus.

BY LOVE
1 Cor 8:3
…but anyone who loves God is known by him.

2 Thess 2:10
and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

1 Cor 16:22
Let anyone be accursed who has no love for the Lord. Our Lord, come!

Jam 1:12-15
Blessed is anyone who endures temptation. Such a one has stood the test and will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.

James 2:5
Has not God chosen the poor in the world to be rich in faith and to be heirs of the kingdom that he has promised to those who love him?

Luke 10:25-37
“Teacher,” he said, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” He said to him, “What is written in the law? What do you read there?” He answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” And he said to him, “You have given the right answer; do this, and you will live.”

1Cor 2:9
But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the human heart conceived, what God has prepared for those who love him”

1Cor 13:1-2
If I speak in the tongues of mortals and of angels, but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away all my possessions, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

BY ENDURANCE
Luke 21:19
By your endurance you will gain your souls.

Heb 10:36
For you need endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.

Matt 24 :12-13
And because of the increase of lawlessness, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

BY SANCTIFICATION
Heb 13:12
Therefore Jesus also suffered outside the city gate in order to sanctify the people by his own blood.

Acts 20:32
And now I commend you to God and to the message of his grace, a message that is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all who are sanctified.

1Cor 1:2
To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, together with all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:

Rom 6:22
But now that you have been freed from sin and enslaved to God, the advantage you get is sanctification. The end is eternal life.

Heb 2:11
For the one who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one Father. For this reason Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters,

HEB 10:9
And it is by God’s will that we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

1Peter 1:2
who have been chosen and destined by God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit to be obedient to Jesus Christ and to be sprinkled with his blood:

2 Thess 2:13
But we must always give thanks to God for you, brothers and sisters beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

It is quite clear that all of these passages are speaking about salvation and they cannot be ignored. While all of the arguments contain truth about salvation none of them is complete. Attempting to say that we are saved by faith “alone” using scripture is no more valid than saying that we are saved by love “alone” or that we are saved by obedience “alone.” Each argument has some truth in it about salvation, but none of the arguments can be used to establish a doctrine that includes the word “alone.”

 

[bigdawg]

Dear Roman Catholic,

I wish you well in your conversations with your father-in-law and would like to suggest three books.

They are:
“Not By Faith Alone”
“Not By Bread Alone”
“Not By Scriptuer Alone”

Well…make that four, if you don’t have one, get a copy of the catechism.

The “Not By…” books are all by Robert Sungenis. They are a bit heavy but very good and will more than equip you to discuss the Church with most anyone.

 

[DeFide]

Roman_Catholic:

I just wrote up this response for here what does everything think? I used alot from Catholic Answers so I thank the web site. I just wanted to make sure I didnt say anything that contradicted the Church. I am only in RCIA. Let me know what you think.

Pax great idea I told him in the future to do one argument at a time.

Della I will ask him to discuss Sola Scriptura. Should I say anyhting or just ask him to tell me about it?

For just being in RCIA, you’re doing a pretty good job! By the way, Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth has an excellent summary on Salvation, which seems to occupy Protestant minds more than anything else.

(Some other links.)

Most importantly, always be gentle, patient, and pray for your Father-in-law constantly. I’ll keep him in prayer, too.

 

[Pax]

Roman_Catholic:

I just wrote up this response for here what does everything think? I used alot from Catholic Answers so I thank the web site. I just wanted to make sure I didnt say anything that contradicted the Church. I am only in RCIA. Let me know what you think.

Pax great idea I told him in the future to do one argument at a time.

Della I will ask him to discuss Sola Scriptura. Should I say anyhting or just ask him to tell me about it?

This is a good summary response, but if he is a strong believer and holds firmly to the tenets of his own faith he will force you to go much deeper into the issues. Be patient…he loves you and wants what he thinks is best for you.

There is another thing that will go far in persuading him that Catholic Christianity is all it claims to be. Your personal witness and example can demonstrate more than any apologetic presentation. Pray always and be the best wife and mother that you can be as well as the best daughter-in-law that you can be. Christianity is transforming. Let it be so in your life. Your father-in-law will quickly see that Christ is truly in you, and he will see how you are growing in your walk with Jesus. This will be a powerful testimony to your conversion.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Sorry guys I think some have gotten our positions in this mixed up. I am marrying this guys daughter who he thinks he is talking to. She asked me to come up with her responses, for which I came here

Not that it matters but just makes it alittle bit more clear.

 

[sadie2723]

Try this one on…

I have a question for you,Why do you choose to believe what some man wearing a chock collar and a black robe professing to be a holy man and follow a religion you no nothing about instead of believe me your father that has read the bible for over 20 years and the biblical gospel that I try to share with you?

**Because your 20 years in a Protestant Church that is less than 100 years old is little match for a Church that was founded by Jesus Christ and is over 2000 years old.
**
Have I ever steered you wrong? We can agree to disagree with out blowing gaskets. I would say to you before you commit to a religion you no nothing about to get an objective view point.

**That is what I am attempting to do by looking at this thing on my own. Dad, you obviously are a bit biased here, so I am looking into it on my own seeking truth.
**
You are an intelligent young women you owe it to your self! I would not put my faith in any thing but Christ and Christ alone.

**Good…then you and the Catholic Church are in total agreement.
**
You need to search the scriptures alone not with a twist that the Cathlic Church will put on it please!

**I agree, but there is a small problem with that. You see, every time I take a literal interpretation of the Bible, looking at every word, I find inconsistencies in the Protestant teaching. When you read it as it is written, the Catholic Church looks like it is right all the time. **

Are you aware that if you miss one mass it is a mortal sin and with out your confession to a preist they say you are damned!

Yes.

What is that.

Well, Dad, you and I both agree that we should go to Church on Sunday and the ten commandments do say that the Sabbath should be kept holy, so I can kind of see their point on this one.

When you confessed your sin to God in Jesus name He forgave you your sin why is it they The Catholic church say that now you have to go and confess to a preist,this does not make any sense.

**Well, if that is the case, Dad, this verse of the Bible makes no sense: John 20: 22-23

22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit.
23
Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

Dad, it is clear here that Jesus gives his disciples the power to forgive sins. Through the process of apostolic succession, this has been passed down for 2000 years to the current priests.
**
Did you come to faith by first beliveing in Christ or by works. You came by faith so why is it now you are trying to obtain your salvation by works that is what they teach check it out.

No, I did check it out. They say you are saved by Grace, and that should lead all Christians to perform works. Remember Jesus states that he will judge us by our works, and James states that faith without works is dead…worthless, Dad. I think we should all have faith, and that faith should bring us to work.

It is true that Roman Catholism and Christianity have many simular believes with the exception of some very important basic doctorines,did you know that they say it is a sin to think you are going to heaven yep check it out it is a sin of prosumption to think that you could go to heaven they say you go to a place called pugitory,it’s not even in the bible.What is up with that?

**Where in the Bible does it say that we should all assume that we are going to Heaven? The Bible cautions us over and over that we can loose our salvation, so what right do we have to assume anything? We must live in Christ, and in this way we will find Heaven. **

I admit that Purgatory is a tough one for a Protestant to understand, as the Protestant Bible contains little information about it. However, the Catholic Bible does. Dad, did you know that for 1500 years there was no disagreement as to what books should be in the Bible? It is true. Only when Luther came along, after the Church had been around 1500+ years, did the books get pulled. And why did this happen? Luther wanted to change the church Dad. If you get a Catholic Bible, which has looked the same for centuries, you will find all the justification of Purgatory that you ever need.

One more thing what do you believe is you stance on Justification, Grace and Faith these are the KEY areas that they are way out. Check it out for your self. I will challenge the catholic church because I belive based on WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY they are wrong.

**Dad, can you show me the scripture that tells me they are wrong on this stuff, because they can back up everything that they teach with scripture. I have not run across anything yet that they could not prove in the Bible. **

 

[sadie2723]

The final little bit

PLease do not be a baby bird and just eat whatever they feed you,just because it is clothed in a very nice package of pompus self righteous religion.

**You mean like the kind your dishing out? That is a cheep shot, Dad, and it saddens me. **

What do you think? you better look in to this and read your BIBLE!

**I have been, and that is the problem. There are way too many things that the Protestants just can’t prove. **

It is the perfect infallible word of GOD not What some man tells you,come on think about it you are smarter then that.

**I have, and if you are talking about the infallibility of the Pope, they can prove that one with scripture too. **

I love you with all my heart…talk to me…Dad
**
I love you with all my heart…listen to me…Daughter**

 

[Subrosa]

Hi RC -

In you quotation your future father-in-law asked…

I have a question for you,Why do you choose to believe what some man wearing a chock collar and a black robe professing to be a holy man

It could be that all of these guys dressed in black have degrees in theology. All have at least a master’s degree, some have doctorates. The Pope has many doctorates. Here is his biography… vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/biography/documents/hf_ben-xvi_bio_20050419_short-biography_en.html

Many priests are college presidents, professors, and teachers. Many head organizations that are charitable, financial, episcopal and so forth. These are not fly-by-night self proclaimed preachers, as so many protestants are. Many protestants also are degreed.

It is a priest’s position in life to guide his portion of the flock. Maybe you could enlighten your dad.

And another thing, God directed Aaron on how He wanted His priesthood to be in the Old Testament. Why would He want it different in the New Testament? What do you suppose the Apostles modeled the church after? Some guy in a suit, or the Jewish priesthood?

**Exodus 19:**6 You shall be to me a kingdom of priests, a holy nation.

Blessings and Happy Easter (to everyone!),
Subrosa

 

[SemperJase]

First, is it even profitable to debate? When he says things like:

Are you aware that if you miss one mass it is a mortal sin and with out your confession to a preist they say you are damned!

I would say something like, "I understand your concern, but your email shows you don’t understand catholic teaching. Mass is offered every day. Missing one is not a sin. Even missing a Sunday is not a mortal sin. "

He says he never led her wrong. Didn’t he essentially abandoned his family through divorce? I bet he would say the divorce was entirely her mother’s fault. I notice you are the one posting. What does you fiance think about this?

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

He says he never led her wrong. Didn’t he essentially abandoned his family through divorce? I bet he would say the divorce was entirely her mother’s fault. I notice you are the one posting. What does you fiance think about this?

Nope it was all his fault. Got caught cheating. But it was this loss of the woman he loved that lead him to his faith.

BTW she just worries that when they are one-on-one he will pressure her and she wont be able to sound like the emails. She will have to comfront him, but hopefully they can come to agreement to not discuss this when they are together. I dont know how to handle that.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Missing one is not a sin.

Even on Sunday though? I fear if I say this he will come back and say " see you dont know what the Church teaches"

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Ok here is what I have created. I used a lot of all your very helpful responses, I thank you for that. If someone would just look over it make sure I didnt misrepresent the Church I would be grateful.

Thanks again guys

Continued on next page

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Dad I have found no reason to believe that the Catholic Church was not established by Jesus Christ. My interpretations of scripture has lead me to the Church. Isnt that what Sola Scriptura is about? If I am not afforded my own interpretation of the Bible what does that say about the doctrine of Sola Scriptura?

I follow Father Fred no more than a Lutheran or a Baptist would follow their minister. Catholics understand that priest are human and capable of sin like anyother man. Pope John Paul II confessed daily, this doesnt sound to me like a man who considered himself above others. In fact the label of the Pope is “The servant of the servants of God.” I dont believe (nor do Catholics) just one guy we believe in Church Tradition (Scriptural and Oral) and Magisterium. The Church has 2,000 years studying the living word of God, this is backed up by scripture and by reading the Church Fathers.

God instituted confession. The sacrament is rooted in the mission God gave to Christ in his capacity as the Son of man on earth to go and forgive sins (cf. Matt. 9:6). Thus, the crowds who witnessed this new power “glorified God, who had given such authority to men” (Matt. 9:8; notice the plural “men”). After his resurrection, Jesus passed on his mission to forgive sins to his ministers, telling them, “As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. . . . Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained” (John 20:21–23). Confession is required or Christ would not have commanded it. Since the early church, confession to a priest has always been practiced. You should read up on what the Church fathers had to say about it, its remarkable how much the Catholic Church is like the early Church, it should be though because Jesus did say the gates of hell would not prevail against it.

Church is an opportunity to hear the Gospel. People should not be missing church and that is all I am going to say about this. You miss church, you miss out hearing the Gospel which is what God commanded. The commandments say to keep Sunday Holy, I didnt expect you to disagree with this. Besides Mass is offered daily, missing one is not a Sin.

I am not trying to gain my salvation by works. You can lay that concern to rest. I already told you that the Catholic Church teaches salvation by the grace of God.

This is one thing I had not heard before so I looked up presumption which for our purposes means to take for granted. Yes I believe it should be a sin to believe that by supernatural powers you can attain salvation. I never would have thought you wouldnt have disagreed with this. As I indicated earlier salvation is by the grace of God. Believing that you can get into heaven without deserving it (repenting for your sins) and using supernatural measures to attain your own salvation, if it isnt a sin it should be.

Purgatory is tough for a protestant because of your Bible’s missing books. If you got the entire Bible you would have all the scriptural support you could ask for. Did you know that for 1500 years there was no disagreement with what books should be in the Bible? It is True but none the less Purgatory is perfectly scriptural without those books Luther took out. While the word itself is not in scripture the concept is. Also help me find the word “Trinity” or “Bible” in scripture. These are concepts, like purgatory which are found in the Bible but you will not find it by its name. Catholic doctrine takes seriously the notion that nothing unclean will get into heaven. Purgatory is not a third destination. Its not a place where those not good enough to get into heaven or bad enough to get into hell go. If you are in the state of mortal sin at death, a sin that breaks the relationship between you and God you will go to hell. You either got to heaven or hell when you die. Those in purgatory are assured of their salvation. There are tons of scriptural references for this, but I dont want to get into Bible verse ping pong. Just know that I have used scripture to support my belief in purgatory and just not accepted it blindly. Sola Scriptura if you will.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Continued

If I missed any of your other problems I am sorry. They were not ignored purposely. Next time send one thing at a time, it would make the emails easier to answer and get through.

I thank you for taking a concern for my soul. I know that you are genuin in your fears, but you shouldnt fear. This is not something I am just doing just to say I did it. You have helped more than you know. Your challenges in fact forced me not to join the Catholic Church blindly, but to look into its teachings which I have. Protestantism is too inconsistant with Scripture. The Catholic Church believes in the the Bible in its entirety. Protestants pull what they want to believe and dismiss what they dont want to believe. This is why there are 30,000 different denominations. Which church, holding to the truth of their interpretation is right? What if they are all wrong? Would you be upset if I joined the Lutheran Church? The Baptist Church? Both these churches, although protestant, differ from you beliefs, yet claim to have the correct interpretation of the Bible.

Once again I am glad we can continue civilly. I really do expect that we will agree to disagree but we can come to a respect eachothers beliefs (Well I already respect yours). Like I said God calls us to live out or faith in love. Perhaps you can go to a Sunday Mass with me this summer so you can see first hand the love of our Lord in The Catholic Church. Catholicism, like anything else is best experienced.

Now its my turn to ask a question. So lets talk about some of those differences between Catholics and Protestants. Please explain to me the doctrine of Sola Scriptura and if we are to look at the Bible alone for our faith, why are there so many Protestant denominations claiming to have the right intepretation? What about those Christians before the Bible was canonized who didnt have the Bible? If Jesus wanted a the Bible to be the sole rule of faith he sure didnt plan very well, considering the illiteracy rates and the printing press not being invented until 1500 years later. I look forward to your discussion on this.