Another Slap In The Face For Americans!

[Lujack]

How can one tribe of Indians claim to own an area that could hold millions of people. The Europeans improved the land they entered. They broght civilization to America. No one can deny this. The American Indian was stuck in a world that was centuries old. That was the way it was.

Here is a critical historical misunderstanding, but a common one. A massive wave of plagues had wiped away the Native American civilization, in some cases killing as many as nine out of ten villagers. In large part, it was caused by pigs brought over by the Spanish.

Obviously, the Spanish are not morally culpable for these deaths (although for the Caribbean Indians who they worked to death are another matter), but it is important to understand. If there had been no plagues, the Europeans wouldn’t have arrived on an empty continent.

Why do people defend the American Indian, then click away at their keyboards condemning those who defend progress? That’s crazy. Imagine a world where you live in a teepee instead of modern homes with all the conveniences. Would you prefer the teepee?

The Pilgrims and the folks at Jamestown didn’t live in modern homes with all the conveniences. The Iroqouis probably had a higher standard of living, actually. Nomadic plains Indians never existed before the arrival of the Spanish. Prior to the arrival of horses in North America, they too were sedentary cultures.

 

[Bullfighter]

This is the kind of attitude that makes Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens bestselling authors.

It is sad that so often Christianity is associated with this nationalist and racist attitude…

I’m not American, but also come from a country of immigrants. America was made by immigrants and it is part of its essence that it changes and that it has a dynamic “culture.” Trying to define American culture as a monolyth is silly. In 50 years from now, American culture will be very different from today, as today’s culture is way different from the 1800s.

Your comparing me to atheists which I am not. First, I’m called a racist but I defend the world’s right to equal immigration of the United States which our border country would hate. Now I’m called an atheist because I think you guys are running out of insults.

God requires us to defend our country from invasion.

When I defend my own race, I’m considered a racist. When I point out the reality that the people some are defending here can’t even run their own country’s, I get attacked. I am mearly pointing out the truth not someone’s crazy idea of equality which throughout history has never worked.

 

[RobertLGarrett]

When I defend my own race, I’m considered a racist. When I point out the reality that the people some are defending here can’t even run their own country’s, I get attacked. I am mearly pointing out the truth not someone’s crazy idea of equality which throughout history has never worked.

Bullfighter,

Actually, while I do disagree with your degree of border protection and fight against illegal immigration, the bolded statement is the only part that I find incongruent with your desire to protect our country.

American is not a race. There should be no racial component in the illegal immigration debate. There are Americans of all racial backgrounds. They are all equally American. If you are “defending your own race,” you are by definition a racist. Our American “race” is not under attack, since there is no such thing.

 

[Bullfighter]

Here is a critical historical misunderstanding, but a common one. A massive wave of plagues had wiped away the Native American civilization, in some cases killing as many as nine out of ten villagers. In large part, it was caused by pigs brought over by the Spanish.

Obviously, the Spanish are not morally culpable for these deaths (although for the Caribbean Indians who they worked to death are another matter), but it is important to understand. If there had been no plagues, the Europeans wouldn’t have arrived on an empty continent.

The Pilgrims and the folks at Jamestown didn’t live in modern homes with all the conveniences. The Iroqouis probably had a higher standard of living, actually. Nomadic plains Indians never existed before the arrival of the Spanish. Prior to the arrival of horses in North America, they too were sedentary cultures.

I have an article done by a Mexican anthropologist that questions the plague that Europeans brought with them. He has evidence that those plagues occured thought history on the American continent and long before the arrival of Europeans.

Since the first settlers of America were constantly being brought up to date by ships arriving from Europe, I would put more faith in the modernization of America through Europeans than by the Indians.

 

[Lujack]

I have an article done by a Mexican anthropologist that questions the plague that Europeans brought with them. He has evidence that those plagues occured thought history on the American continent and long before the arrival of Europeans.

There may have been plagues, but never any as devastating as the ones upon initial contact. According to the excellent 1491-Life in the Americas Before Columbus (not to be confused with the garbage that is 1421-The Year China Discovered America), nearly nine out of ten northeast Indians died. That’s an astonishing number, and has barely been repeated anywhere else.

Such plagues being cyclical would not have made sense; they were caused by first contact with germs carried by cattle, horses, and pigs, something Europe had and the Americas did not.

Since the first settlers of America were constantly being brought up to date by ships arriving from Europe, I would put more faith in the modernization of America through Europeans than by the Indians.

American culture is incredibly syncretic. We owe a lot to the Iroquois, in particular, and the Cherokee were on the verge of developing their own strong culture during the 1820’s.

Don’t mix up the first, unsupported wave of colonists in the mid-1600’s with the much more concerted efforts of the later part of that century and the early 1700’s. Even if the Anglo-Saxons (really Anglo-Saxon/Scots-Irish/Puritans) had lost out to the French Catholics, though, America still would have modernized. Did you know the Algonquins and many other tribes of Eastern Canada were staunch Catholics before the year 1690?

 

[grampben]

This is an appallingly racist thread.

The USA is a nation founded on immigration, who then decides what the culture/heritage should be?
If we held to our original culture here in the UK life would be awful.

If you want to go back to the old days join the amish.

 

[Bullfighter]

Bullfighter,

Actually, while I do disagree with your degree of border protection and fight against illegal immigration, the bolded statement is the only part that I find incongruent with your desire to protect our country.

American is not a race. There should be no racial component in the illegal immigration debate. There are Americans of all racial backgrounds. They are all equally American. If you are “defending your own race,” you are by definition a racist. Our American “race” is not under attack, since there is no such thing.

A racist is one who considers his race superior to others. I never made that claim. I’m not the one hiding behind the “La Raza” tag either. If a person defends his race, he is not a racist. Somebody should consult a dictionary.

American is not a race, it is a culture though. It’s primary language is English. The world has accepted this but the people who are invading the US haven’t.

Since you don’t live in my neighborhood, you don’t know what it is like to live in a occupied area that was once the United States. You don’t know what it is like to have gangs hang out on your property and have the police at your house on a nightly basis. You have never witnessed a senior citizen get attacked in front of your Church on a Sunday morning by these “hard working immigrants” then hear how you make up lies about it by the so-called christians on various websites.

If someone could tell me how to download photos to this website, I’ll show you what the “wonderful children of these hard working immigrants” are doing to your fellow Americans.

 

[RobertLGarrett]

This is an appallingly racist thread.

The USA is a nation founded on immigration, who then decides what the culture/heritage should be?
If we held to our original culture here in the UK life would be awful.

If you want to go back to the old days join the amish.

The amish are more German aren’t they?

Our culture/heritage is mixed. There are some things that are uniquely American that have developed, but it is indeed silly to try to define a single set of things as American culture.

The concern I do see as valid regarding immigration is that of language. We have many immigrants from many different places. The drive by one group to insist that we become bilingual - Spanish and English - is jingoistic on the part of that group. The language of their original homeland is no more specials than Chinese or Vietnamese, for example. I think it is important and best for our country that we maintain a single lingua franca. The logical choice is, of course, English.

 

[grampben]

The amish are more German aren’t they?

Our culture/heritage is mixed. There are some things that are uniquely American that have developed, but it is indeed silly to try to define a single set of things as American culture.

The concern I do see as valid regarding immigration is that of language. We have many immigrants from many different places. The drive by one group to insist that we become bilingual - Spanish and English - is jingoistic on the part of that group. The language of their original homeland is no more specials than Chinese or Vietnamese, for example. I think it is important and best for our country that we maintain a single lingua franca. The logical choice is, of course, English.

Here in ireland the official language is Irish, but most people (including the government) speak English as a first language.

 

[Maui71]

Maui71

Hardly an equal comparrison, Maui. We are not blaming our ills on minorities and/or seeking to annihilate them. Rhetoric may escalate by some out of frustration at our politicians who are more concerned with their votes than their nation and her people. Do we have issues with lawlessness and our economy and taxes? You bet, and we have every right to be upset about those issues.

It’s not that we hate our neighbors, it’s that we have an issue with 15 million of them coming here illegally. And many of them using our tax payers services for free, only to take 20 billion out of our economy and send it elsware. Or lowering the standard of living and lowering of wages, all while violating our laws. You expect us to be gracious about that?

We should clamp up on charity, there seems to be plenty enoough to go around already!

I would agree with you that we need to observe laws and pay taxes. However, the claim that 15 million are lawless and do not pay taxes is absolutely false. Now if you are in the US and are so “illegally” it is a misdemeanor like a traffic ticket if you have not been caught before. Terrible criminal. Now if you have been deported and re-enter then it is a felony and you are a criminal. Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code. Interesting.

Back to taxes this is my favorite; Illegal’s pay more taxes than we think. If illegal has and uses a SS# that is not theirs - they will never get that benefit. The Social Security administration has the stats on how much additional revenue they receive from people working under someone else’s SS (no one is complaining about that).

Sales tax - every time an illegal goes to Wal-Mart to buy jeans, sneakers, detergent they are putting money into the State and/or Municipalities coffers (no one is complaining about that). Let’s see in this depressed real estate market illegals that pay rent (they all need some where to live) pay for the real estate taxes that fund most states (I know the landlords aren’t complaining)

Social services such as schools and hospitals - are paid primarily through sales and real estate taxes - Both which are paid directly and indirectly through real estate taxes. I bet you have no idea how many illegals own houses in the US!! They pay real estate taxes just like their non-illegal (US resident) neighbors do.

So to say they are getting a free ride is really less than truthful. Yes ok, most illegals work for 2-3 years and return to their country with large sums of money saved. That reminds me I did not speak about fed income taxes. Boy do they really help out there.

We have a graduated tax system. So Joe Jackson hires Pablo Pueblo to work in his factory. Pablito is an illegal Joe can’t get anyone to do the midnight shift. Joe pays Pablo $10 per hour. Pablo works for 45 hours a week for 52 weeks a year (he can’t complain) so Joe pays him 23,400. Joe has 10 employees like that so that amounts to $234,000 lets assume none of the illegals are using other peoples SS so no withholdings are occurring. Joe cannot deduct those salaries on his company’s tax return.

If Joe is in a 35% bracket Joe is paying an additional $81,900 in Fed INCOME TAXES for not using legal employees. Had that money gone to legal employees the US Treasury department at best would have only collected $18,100 assuming the taxpayer is single no dependant filer the tax on 23,400 would be $1,810 * 10 taxpayers = $18,100.

That is a positive difference of for Uncle Sam of $63,800.

So much for the myth that illigals don’t pay tax everyone legal or illegal pays directly or indirectly.

See most illegals take jobs that most legals don’t want. Yes you get some professionals that come in and work under a licensed professional at a far discounted price but the licensed professional pays the savings in taxes.

Perfect example is the kosher meat plant somewhere in the Midwest. There is a shortage of kosher meat now because the plant can’t find people willing to work yet CNN says that labor market sky is falling. Well where are all the legals applying for the job? The same thing is happening in farming communities???

Anyway, if we are going to talk about illegals the totality of the picture needs to be addressed not just the opinions. I have yet to meet a person that has lost their job to an illegal. I live in a city where an illegal can make as good a living as any legal and I have yet to see the case.

This thread is not where to post the solution because if you are going to complain about a problem you need to have a solution to the problem. Complaining is not a solution.

 

[neat62]

Lujack;

And this is historically incorrect, because it implies a unity that never existed. Tidewater plantation owners considered themselves ethnically distinct from upcountry regulators in the same way that the Irish and the Scots-Irish are ethnically distinct.

Again, a unity that never existed.

Not talking about the people, but a system that has become a common one.

While John Locke had an important influence on the United States, Voltaire, Rosseau, and Cicero had equally important influences. The government of the United States was never Anglo-Saxon.

And combine many facets from the above, and we have:

answers.com/topic/anglo-saxon-capitalism

 

[redhen]

Here is a critical historical misunderstanding, but a common one. A massive wave of plagues had wiped away the Native American civilization, in some cases killing as many as nine out of ten villagers. In large part, it was caused by pigs brought over by the Spanish.

Sure, and the Indians gave the disease syphilis to Europe, tit for tat. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syphilis#History

Obviously, the Spanish are not morally culpable for these deaths (although for the Caribbean Indians who they worked to death are another matter), but it is important to understand. If there had been no plagues, the Europeans wouldn’t have arrived on an empty continent.

Doesn’t matter, it was all considered *terra incognita *,and the Papal Bull Inter Caetera of 1493 states “that the health of souls be cared for and that barbarous nations be overthrown and brought to the faith itself”

catholic-forum.com/saints/pope0214a.htm

The Pilgrims and the folks at Jamestown didn’t live in modern homes with all the conveniences. The Iroqouis probably had a higher standard of living, actually.

Granted, but they would not have developed any technology. Their level of progress would have remained static.

I don’t think I can be accused of being a white supremest. I am quite a mixed bag of heredity. Part Polish, German, Gypsy, “Native American”, and who knows what else. In fact, I have enough “Native American” blood (1/4) to qualify as a status Indian under Canadian law. The law in the U.S.A. requires 50% blood quantum. Too bad, otherwise I would be back working in the U.S. without any kind of visa or green card.

My mother and her family lived on an Indian reserve. Almost all of them left to work or study in the cities. And, to paraphrase Muhammad Ali (Cassius Clay) after returning from the “Rumble in the Jungle” in Zaire against George Foreman; “Thank God my granddaddy got on that boat.”

 

[neat62]

“Therefore love one another, as I have loved you. For if you love one another, then all will know you are my disciples”

As long as it is in context

If you’re down and confused, and you don’t remember who you’re talkin’ to. Concentration slip away, ‘cause your baby is so far away.

Well there’s a rose in the fisted glove and the eagle flies with the dove, and if you can’t be with the one you love, honey, love the one you’re with, love the one you’re with, love the one you’re with, love the one you’re with.

Don’t be angry, don’t be sad, and don’t sit cryin’ over good times you’ve had. There’s a girl right next to you, and she’s just waitin’ for something to do.

And there’s a rose in the fisted glove and the eagle flies with the dove, and if you can’t be with the one you love, honey, love the one you’re with, love the one you’re with, love the one you’re with, love the one you’re with.

Dit dit dit dit dit dit dit dit, dit dit dit dit dit dit dit dit, dit dit dit dit dit dit dit dit, dit dit dit, dit dit dit.

Turn your heartache right into joy, she’s a girl, and you’re a boy. Well get it together, make it real nice,
You ain’t gonna need anymore advice.

And there’s a rose in the fisted glove and the eagle flies with the dove, and if you can’t be with the one you love, honey, love the one you’re with, love the one you’re with, love the one you’re with, love the one you’re with.

Dit dit dit dit dit dit dit dit, dit dit dit dit dit dit dit dit, dit dit dit dit dit dit dit dit, dit dit dit, dit dit dit.

 

[RobertLGarrett]

A racist is one who considers his race superior to others. I never made that claim. I’m not the one hiding behind the “La Raza” tag either. If a person defends his race, he is not a racist. Somebody should consult a dictionary.

American is not a race, it is a culture though. It’s primary language is English. The world has accepted this but the people who are invading the US haven’t.

Since you don’t live in my neighborhood, you don’t know what it is like to live in a occupied area that was once the United States. You don’t know what it is like to have gangs hang out on your property and have the police at your house on a nightly basis. You have never witnessed a senior citizen get attacked in front of your Church on a Sunday morning by these “hard working immigrants” then hear how you make up lies about it by the so-called christians on various websites.

If someone could tell me how to download photos to this website, I’ll show you what the “wonderful children of these hard working immigrants” are doing to your fellow Americans.

Don’t assume to know my experiences. I went to Jr High and a year of High School in BVN…the Barrio Van Nuys in Southern California. I agree La Raza is a problematic group because they are in favor of turning at least part of the US into part of Mexico.

However, that is not a race issue. There are Americans of hispanic/latino (whatever the correct term is) descent. They are fully American. Also, part of American culture is Hispanic in origin. The Spanish missions and the Southwest did not lose all of its cultural history when they became part of this great country. The new immigrants add to our culture, just as the immigrants before have. Things balance out.

And, I’m not going to teach you how to download photos, if you are going to use it for racist purposes. Not all immigrants from Latin America are bad for our culture. You should not group everyone of a particular race in such a way.

 

[neat62]

This is an appallingly racist thread.

The USA is a nation founded on immigration, who then decides what the culture/heritage should be?
If we held to our original culture here in the UK life would be awful.

If you want to go back to the old days join the amish.

Typical lies. The issue is and always has been legal immigration.

 

[RobertLGarrett]

Here in ireland the official language is Irish, but most people (including the government) speak English as a first language.

I’m happy for you…now what does that have to do with America?

 

[Bullfighter]

This is an appallingly racist thread.

The USA is a nation founded on immigration, who then decides what the culture/heritage should be?
If we held to our original culture here in the UK life would be awful.

If you want to go back to the old days join the amish.

There is nothing racist about it. I understand the UK is going to prevent the immigration of people based on their lack of knowlege of the English language.

I am actually against that as I have known people who spent their entire lives in the US and never spoke a word of English. As long as they will always be able to rely on a family member to interpret for them, I see no reason for them to be forced to learn English.

I ran into a interesting situation at a hospital on day. A woman from Iran was talking about her mother’s upcoming operation at the hospital. This women spoke English and was able to communicate to her mother in her tribal language, but her mother did not understand English or the common language of Iran which is Farsi. The hospital said it must be able to communicate with the mother through someone other than a family member for some legal reason. The only thing I could suggest to the woman was to contact the Iranian consulate and ask them for help in the matter. I was sure that the problem must have occured before.

The culture of this country should not be decided by the overpopulated neighbors to the south. I don’t understand why their problems should be forced on the American people.

 

[bookgirl32]

bookgirl32;

In contemporary usage, Anglo-Saxon can be used in various contexts to mean people predominantly descended from the English ethnic group.

English ethic group:

The English people (from Old English: Englisc) are a nation and ethnic group native to England who speak English.

Bullfighter is correct.

Political research on Anglo-Saxon capitalism draws on liberal political theory and neoclassical economic thought. Within economic policy debates, advocates of the Anglo-Saxon model note the strong economic performance of the UK and especially the US during the 1990s to bolster claims that the ‘liberal market’ model of capitalism is superior to the Rhenish version. Extremely flexible labour markets and financial markets within Anglo-Saxon economies are seen as creating competitive advantages in newly developing or ‘radically innovative’ industries such as biotechnology or computer software.

answers.com/topic/anglo-saxon-capitalism

I understand what Anglo-Saxon is. I understand how it influenced American capitalism. The original formation of our government, and the writing of our constitution, was not solely based on capitalism. Capitalism has been a part of the American government since its inception, yes.

However, I don’t believe this is the point that Bullfighter was trying to make. The quote you included of his above was not his first mention of “Anglo-Saxon”. He was originally referring to Anglo-Saxon as in race, not styles of government. At least that’s how I read it.

 

[Bullfighter]

Don’t assume to know my experiences. I went to Jr High and a year of High School in BVN…the Barrio Van Nuys in Southern California. I agree La Raza is a problematic group because they are in favor of turning at least part of the US into part of Mexico.

However, that is not a race issue. There are Americans of hispanic/latino (whatever the correct term is) descent. They are fully American. Also, part of American culture is Hispanic in origin. The Spanish missions and the Southwest did not lose all of its cultural history when they became part of this great country. The new immigrants add to our culture, just as the immigrants before have. Things balance out.

And, I’m not going to teach you how to download photos, if you are going to use it for racist purposes. Not all immigrants from Latin America are bad for our culture. You should not group everyone of a particular race in such a way.

I’ll remember that when their breaking into my home.

 

[bookgirl32]

catholic-caveman.blogspot.com/search?q=immigration

ANd again, this is not official documentation of the Church’s position, this is an opinionated blog putting together information to make a someone’s personal point.