Another word for Roman Catholicism?

[Ani_Ibi]

PC Master:

In the case of Catholicism, it’s not the same, for Catholic is interpreted to mean “universal”, so essentially, by calling someone the “Catholic Church”, you’re giving them the title of universal. Additionally, you have the ambiguity that the Catholic Church headquartered in Rome is not the only church organization which claims to the the one universal church.

The claim by other churches to be the universal church is cultural appropriation. The Catholic Church was the Catholic Church until folks split off from her. Those split off denominations are not universal just because they decided to ‘take’ the name.
PC Master:

For that matter, even many Protestants believe they are part of the invisible universal church, made up of all believers in Christ.

Then let them call themselves the Invisible Church.
PC Master:

Thus, using the term Catholic Church is confusing.

If all the other churches who are attempting to culturally appropriate this name would stop doing that, then it would not be confusing.
PC Master:

As for Romanism…it’s pretty much like Protestantism. I don’t quibble over labels too much

It actually sounds to me like you’re quibbling over labels a lot.

Whatever happened to ‘Christian’?

 

[Atemi]

"Roman Catholic Church" (RCC) is not a pejorative as that also is used regularly by Catholic leadership and lay Catholics alike.

Unfortunately the bitterly anti-catholic protestant US mindset has affected even some poorly-catechised Catholics in that country.

This position you are taking is extremely intriguing.

It seems you are now charging fellow Catholics in America with an “anti-Catholic” mindset and poor catechesis.

If that is so, what is the Vatican’s excuse for using the term “Roman Catholic Church” when speaking of your church?

Again you are referring to terms your own church uses of herself and calling them pejoratives.

How is this possible?

I think the fact that we had been doing it for at least 1600 to 1800 years before any of them started doing it should count for something.

They make the exact same claim about your church. I do not prefer to stand in the middle of such infighting.

Apparently you feel that Catholics must allow non-Catholics to decide how Catholics are to pray and what Catholics are allowed to call themselves, but Catholics are not even allowed to object when some novel organisation steals their own name and applies it to itself!

Again, many other churches all insist we all call them the “Catholic Church” too. You don’t extend that courtesy to them, but you demand we extend that courtesy to you.

How are we to seriously view that kind of position?

We as non-Catholics prefer to not get in the middle of such arguments and fighting as we believe all the claimants to the title are mistaken anyway. We will just let all the competing churches duke it our amongst themselves. When there is some sort of “winner” in this struggle, then maybe we could come to some greater conclusions.

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[Atemi]

All reformation ‘church’s’ are not Church’s at all but ecclesiastical communities.

And this does highlight a serious problem.

You insist that we call you the Catholic Church out of “courtesy” and “respect,” but you will not even call our churches “churches” at all…wow.

 

[Atemi]

As for Romanism…it’s pretty much like Protestantism. I don’t quibble over labels too much, but I am not what I am because I am in Protest against the Roman Catholic Church. In fact, I prefer to call myself a “God follower”, but that term doesn’t really even give a remote idea of what I believe. Thus, the term Protestant is generally applicable. I don’t worry about perceived innuendo and the like.

This is a very important point.

We as non-Catholic Christians generally do not truly appreciate being called a “Protestant” that believes in “Protestantism.” I have not seen any concentrated efforts by any Catholics anywhere to make sure proper “courtesy” and “respect” are offered by not using such pejoratives.

I am with you, however, in that these terms are so common they can help increase the ease of communication.

Why anyone insist such respect be a one way street is beyond me. It really undermines their whole position to begin with, IMV.

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[Church_Militant]

Oh, so based upon this discussion and the comments of n-Cs so far, I guess we Catholics would be within our rights to refer to n-Cs by their denominations and not as the blanket term of Christian?

That’s where this logic leads.

Maybe a dose of Christ-like charity would serve better than legalism.

 

[Church_Militant]

This is a very important point.

We as non-Catholic Christians generally do not truly appreciate being called a “Protestant” that believes in “Protestantism.” I have not seen any concentrated efforts by any Catholics anywhere

to make sure proper “courtesy” and “respect” are offered by not using such pejoratives.

I am with you, however, in that these terms are so common they can help increase the ease of communication.

Why anyone insist such respect be a one way street is beyond me. It really undermines their whole position to begin with, IMV.

…Yeah… but everything here does that for you from all the posts I’ve seen from you.

 

[cpayne]

Well, I’ve read the CC described as the “Despicable Enormities of the Gross Darkness of Popery.” Anyone have a problem with that? (I thought it was catchy.)

 

[cpayne]

Actually, I thought the OP was intriguing. To summarize: “Can I refer to the Catholic Church without using the term Catholic?”

 

[Church_Militant]

Well, I’ve read the CC described as the “Despicable Enormities of the Gross Darkness of Popery.” Anyone have a problem with that? (I thought it was catchy.)

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Well, I’ve read the CC described as the “Despicable Enormities of the Gross Darkness of Popery.” Anyone have a problem with that? (I thought it was catchy.)

DEGDOP? I can get into it. I’m just worried about how I can work it into a converstation though and keep a straight face. It would make witnessing really challenging.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Actually, I thought the OP was intriguing. To summarize: “Can I refer to the Catholic Church without using the term Catholic?”

Hey, c, a nod’s as good as a wink.

How about the non-Protestant Communion?
Or simply, The Unreformed? I like this latter. It has a cowboy ring to it.

 

[Orionthehunter]

All reformation ‘church’s’ are not Church’s at all but ecclesiastical communities.

Atemi, I cringed when I saw this post as it is specific academic terminology used in context that there is one Church of Christ all united by their common faith in Jesus Christ as Savior, the Son of God and the Second Person of the Trinity. It is in this context that different Christian faiths separated by choice or tradition are referred to as ecclesiastical communities. The use of this term is also to make it clear that the context is not talking about either buildings or the collective church of believers but their institutional framework of belief, liturgy, hierarchy, clergy, etc.

Within the context of this thread and dialogue with fellow Christians, the Catholic Church is fully comfortable and believes it appropriate to refer to other Christian denominations by their official name.

See the following introduction of remarks by Pope Benedict:

PASTORAL VISIT
OF HIS HOLINESS POPE BENEDICT XVI
IN POLAND

ADDRESS OF THE HOLY FATHER

ECUMENICAL ENCOUNTER

Warsaw, 25 May 2006

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

“Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth” (Rev 1:4-5). In these words with which Saint John greets the seven Churches of Asia in the Book of the Apocalypse, I wish to address my own warm greetings to all who are present here, especially to the representatives of the Churches and Ecclesial Communities affiliated to the Polish Council for Ecumenism. To Archbishop Jeremiasz of the Autocephalous Orthodox Church, the President of the Council, I express my thanks for his greetings and his words of spiritual union addressed to me just now. And I greet Archbishop Alfons Nossol, President of the Council for Ecumenism of the Polish Episcopal Conference.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/may/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060525_incontro-ecumenico_en.html

And this does highlight a serious problem.

You insist that we call you the Catholic Church out of “courtesy” and “respect,” but you will not even call our churches “churches” at all…wow.

I apologize that this was said in the context of this thread. You are rightly offended by the implication.

 

[Atemi]

P.S. There is a post that reference a Catechism paragraph (1059) where the term “Roman Church” is used. This is a direct quote from a Council in 1274 when vernacular was different and inferences were different. For effective dialogue with Catholics, it would be most likely accomplished using terms which the person is not likely to infer implications that may or not be intended.

This term was used unashamedly in the most recent Catechism quoting a Council.

To insist we all ignore that is to insist that we ignore the example set by your own leadership and the Catholic Catechism.

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[vern_humphrey]

Hey, c, a nod’s as good as a wink.

How about the non-Protestant Communion?
Or simply, The Unreformed? I like this latter. It has a cowboy ring to it.

Or simply, “The Church.”

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Or simply, “The Church.”

That does it. The gloves are off. I’m putting it in my profile.

 

[tdgesq]

This term was used unashamedly in the most recent Catechism quoting a Council.

To insist we all ignore that is to insist that we ignore the example set by your own leadership and the Catholic Catechism.

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The Roman Catholic Church generally uses the term “Roman Church” or “Latin Church” to distinguish itself from other rites within the Catholic Church. For example, in CCC 1383, the anaphora in the Latin rite is described, as opposed to that in the Greek rite.

Is that how you and other non-Catholics propose to use this term? No, instead the omission of the word “Catholic” is meant to convey your belief that the Roman Catholic Church isn’t catholic and universal at all. Not at all what the RCC means when it uses that term.

 

[NDIrish]

How about “The Church founded by Christ”?

 

[porthos11]

How bout I just call it “your church”

Nevertheless, that’s still a noun.

That doesn’t even solve the problem of the adjective.

The best rule of thumb here is to use the term as secular society uses the term. When they say “the Catholic Church”, everyone knows what it refers to.

 

[Petergee]

This position you are taking is extremely intriguing.

It seems you are now charging fellow Catholics in America with an “anti-Catholic” mindset and poor catechesis.

I’m pointing out the fact that some Catholics in the US have been influenced by the US culture’s overbearing anti-Catholic mindset and poor catechesis. I’m not “charging” them with anything. Brought up in such an atmosphere, even a committed Catholic can unconsciously have a psychological perception of his own Church which is heavily influenced by the protestant anti-Catholic view of it which pervades his culture.

If that is so, what is the Vatican’s excuse for using the term “Roman Catholic Church” when speaking of your church?

Again you are referring to terms your own church uses of herself and calling them pejoratives.

You keep asserting that but have failed to point to any examples.

They make the exact same claim about your church. I do not prefer to stand in the middle of such infighting.

And that would be the equivalent of the man who founds a new country and demands that everyone call it “'France”, asserting that what everybody, Frenchmen and non-Frenchmen, thought was France for the past 1500 years, was actually a “false France” and that his country is actually the real France which has been “hidden” for 1500 years, so don’t ask him to produce one whit of historical evidence for its existence, because those nasty “false Frenchmen” destroyed it!

Again, many other churches all insist we all call them the “Catholic Church” too. You don’t extend that courtesy to them, but you demand we extend that courtesy to you.

How are we to seriously view that kind of position?

You’re proposing a one-way street. Non-Catholics decide what they are to be called and how they worship (which Catholics have no problem with) and non-Catholics, not Catholics, also get to decide what Catholics are to be called and how Catholics must worship! The bare-faced cheek is incredible.

 

[Atemi]

The Roman Catholic Church generally uses the term “Roman Church” or “Latin Church” to distinguish itself from other rites within the Catholic Church. For example, in CCC 1383, the anaphora in the Latin rite is described, as opposed to that in the Greek rite.

But what of all the instances “Roman Catholic Church” is used when speaking of the Catholic Church entire?

Should we as non-Catholics ignore those?

I don’t think that is necessary.

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