Answering anti-religious "intellectualism/superiority"?

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continued from previous post, Eusebius of Caesarea:

Before the opening of the council, some who are experienced in the practice of disputation began to agitate questions of theology. A layman of good sense, who had the courage to confess the name of Christ, in a time of persecution, perceiving that many were attracted by the force and elegance of their discourses, undertook to rebuke them by remarking that neither our Lord nor his apostles have taught us the rules of logic, or idle subtleties, but the truth, which is preserved by faith and good works. All who were present listened to him with admiration, and approved of what he had said. The speakers themselves became more moderate in consequence: and the noise and clamor excited by their animated declamation were no longer heard.

It is also related that certain heathen philosophers were anxious to take a part in the dispute, some of them wishing to be made acquainted with the doctrines of the gospel, and others, to whom the Christians were obnoxious, on account of the decaying credit of their own religion, desiring to create a misunderstanding, and to foment divisions among them. One of these “seekers after wisdom”, in the vain confidence of his imagined eloquence, assuming an insolent matter, endeavored to turn the priests into ridicule. But a plain and illiterate old man, one of those who had been distinguished as confessors, was unable to bear his arrogance, and, although unversed in the rules of logic and the art of disputation, ventured to accost him. This excited the laughter of some inconsiderate persons, to whom he was known, but alarmed the more reflecting, who apprehended that he might expose himself in so unequal a contest. Their respect for his character, however, prevented any attempt to hinder him from speaking.

“Listen”, he said, “philosopher, in the name of Jesus. There is one God, the creator of heaven and Earth, and of all things visible and invisible, who has performed all this by the power of his Word, and established it by the holiness of his Spirit. The Word, which we call the son of God, pitying the errors of men and their brutish way of life, condescended to be born of a woman, to sojourn among them, and to die for their salvation. He will come again to judge the actions of everyone in this life. We believe, in the simplicity of our hearts, that this is the truth. Do not then fruitlessly trouble yourself, in seeking arguments against these things, or in attempting to discover the mode in which they may be, or not. But if you believe, only tell me so.”

The philosopher, not a little astonished at this unexpected address, answered, I believe; and, thanking the old man for having vanquished him, recommended it to those with whom he had formerly agreed in sentiment, to follow his example, solemnly declaring that the change which he had experienced was the effect of divine power, and that he felt himself inexplicably impelled to embrace the faith of Christ.
 
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Somehow these intellectuals have reached a level of thinking that allows them to see things way above everyone else.
No, actually they are just reproducing what Pierre Onfray and Richard Dawkins and somehow Umberto Ecco has said. If you are bored and want an argument call them on that, the fact they are reproducing ideas and they have no moral superiority to call anyone who prefers reproducing ideas from the Bible “stupid” without being subjected to the adjective themselves. But it will.not end well. Sometimes people want to feel smart and they end up being the opposite, at least in appearance. The stronger the feeling to want to be smart the lamer the result.
And if an atheist keeps on drumming the same argument over and over then it really is time to move along.
Oh, and never discuss about God while drunk. Neither party is convincing in that segment even if God Himself is working hard to get both the believer and the atheist safe back in your beds. 😏
 
They are fools blinded by their hubris. They aren’t worth your time. Simple as that.
 
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That is a rather broad generalization and does not comport with my experience. In most debates between theists and atheists I find the atheists far better informed and knowledgeable.
In my experience, atheists don’t seem to understand how to interpret the Bible and how doctrine is arrived at.
And many think they’re experts when they’re not. They take what are obviously parables and make them into literal descriptions and take verses out of context. All one has to do is read more than little clipping and one will see the actual context.
 
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Barnesy:
Whats the global south?
The Southern Hemisphere excluding Australia and New Zealand.
Thats quite a variety of religions.
 
MasterHaster:
That is a rather broad generalization and does not comport with my experience. In most debates between theists and atheists I find the atheists far better informed and knowledgeable.
They take what are obviously parables and make them into literal descriptions and take verses out of context.
Like genesis?
 
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Barnesy:
Like genesis?
It wasn’t what I had in mind.
Genesis isn’t a parable. Parts are allegorical.
So is there some where that says this isnt meant to be taken literally? Lots of people including catholics think geneis described what actually happened and they think noah built a boat and there was a flood and were all descended from adam and eve.
 
So is there some where that says this isnt meant to be taken literally? Lots of people including catholics think geneis described what actually happened and they think noah built a boat and there was a flood and were all descended from adam and eve.
Many of the Early Church Fathers didn’t hold the belief the Earth was created in six 24 hour days. We also know parts of Genesis is supposed to be read allegorically based on commentaries from the early centuries of Christianity.
The Bible was never meant to be read with a blank slate as many atheists wrongly do.
Catholics can speak for themselves on the other points. I’m not going to speak for them.
 
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I think that is is self-centered and prideful for one to deny God’s existence and claim that human beings can know it all
Athiests don’t usually claim human beings know it all. To the contrary, actually.
 
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Barnesy:
So is there some where that says this isnt meant to be taken literally? Lots of people including catholics think geneis described what actually happened and they think noah built a boat and there was a flood and were all descended from adam and eve.
Many of the Early Church Fathers didn’t hold the belief the Earth was created in six 24 hour days. We also know parts of Genesis is supposed to be read allegorically based on commentaries from the early centuries of Christianity.
The Bible was never meant to be read with a blank slate as many atheists wrongly do.
Catholics can speak for themselves on the other points. I’m not going to speak for them.
I dont think that any atheists think that there was a flood or God made all the animals in a few days just as they are. But lots of christians and many Catholics think that.
 
I dont think that any atheists think that there was a flood or God made all the animals in a few days just as they are. But lots of christians and many Catholics think that.
But that’s what atheists tell Christians they should believe among other things as if we should make atheists the authority of what Christians believe.
And yes, there are many Christians who do believe in a 144 hour creation period. But they are free to believe that.
 
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Barnesy:
I dont think that any atheists think that there was a flood or God made all the animals in a few days just as they are. But lots of christians and many Catholics think that.
But that’s what atheists tell Christians they should believe among other things as if we should make atheists the authority of what Christians believe.
Why would an atheist tell christians to believe in some thing that they dont believe themselves. That doesnt make sense.
 
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Barnesy:
Why would an atheist tell christians to believe in some thing that they dont believe themselves. That doesnt make sense.
Ask them not me.
I dont mean it makes no sense for them to tell christians what to believe (although it doesnt make any sense). I mean it makes no sense for you to say that. What atheists do you know that do that??
 
I dont mean it makes no sense for them to tell christians what to believe (although it doesnt make any sense). I mean it makes no sense for you to say that. What atheists do you know that do that??
That’s odd because there are a number of threads on the forums that indicate this. You can find them yourself.
But away from CAF, there are atheists who say the Bible is wrong because Genesis has to be read literally and that Christians who read parts of Genesis allegorically are doing it wrong.
 
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Barnesy:
I dont mean it makes no sense for them to tell christians what to believe (although it doesnt make any sense). I mean it makes no sense for you to say that. What atheists do you know that do that??
That’s odd because there are a number of threads on the forums that indicate this. You can find them yourself.
But away from CAF, there are atheists who say the Bible is wrong because Genesis has to be read literally and that Christians who read parts of Genesis allegorically are doing it wrong.
Let me know atheists who think genesis has to be read literally. I dont know of any. None at all.
 
The basic premise is that religion is for the “lower” thinking segment of the population.
At the end of the day, if you take metaphysical naturalism seriously (which is the consequence of denying any form of super-naturalism) the consequences of this is that our very experience of being a “person” (making plans, having freewill, the making of culture, the experience of meaning, having hope, and even the capacity of having religious beliefs) becomes absolutely unintelligible and impossible without giving way to brute facts. In other-words you would have to ignore a significant portion of the human experience in order to swallow the idea that physical activity is all that exists. And if one were to ask a metaphysical naturalist what was the point of creating and sustaining a civilisation beyond the first generation of rational individuals (why create more people), they would not be able to give you a rational reason other than the idea that they are just fulfilling the programming in their genes; they’re are just along for the ride.

The Christian right or wrong chooses to believe for various reasons that life isn’t a just-so-story, it isn’t something that’s just happening. That life really has meaning, value, and purpose. If that makes a person an idiot, then i will gladly stand with my idiots and live my life believing exactly what i experience – the experience of a world that has layers of significance that transcends the activity of blind physical processes alone, for which i believe Christianity provides the best explanation.
 
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