Answering Eastern Orthodox Claims

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If the parish you refer to is St Ignatios in Augusta GA, you are in for a real treat. This is a parish that is not nationality oriented and that has a fulllllll liturgical life. You will think you died and went to heaven.

Christ is among us Fr. Andre šŸ™‚
 
Antonius Lupus;3216464} said:
Do not be afraid of Orthodoxy. Go to Divine Liturgy, read about Orthodoxy. No hatred - just look to see. Schism is a relative thing - who is separated from whom?? God has put you near to his Holy church for a reason.

Also in greek or slavonic there you could pray the Jesusov prayer - even in English.
 
What does this mean actually? In reality, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, Jews, Hindus, Moslems, and Buddhists can attain eternal salvation.
We don’t know exactly for sure, though. None have come back to tell us. The Church says it’s possible, but not that it’s guaranteed. To be on the safe side, all should enter into the Fullness of Truth. šŸ‘

Pace e Bene
Andrew
 
**In any case, I am finding it increasingly difficult to answer Eastern Orthodox claims about themselves and claims about the Catholic Church. It seems the Catholic Church is strong on defending herself against the Protestants, but touchy about taking a stand against the Eastern Orthodox. **

Catholics generally are reluctant to take a stand against Orthodox Churches because we have been taught to respect them as ā€œsister churchesā€. Nor, for that reason, are Catholics prepared for it. The Catholic Church does hope for reunion. You will find that many of the Orthodox do not share that ā€œpositive prejudiceā€ vis a vis the Catholic Church. It’s like fighting your sister who does not recognize you as her brother. Your heart’s not in it.

The worst part of this is that I am not being spiritually fulfilled in my own Roman Church. It just doesn’t have the awe of the liturgies of the East.

I am tempted to go to the Divine Liturgy at the Eastern Orthodox Church on Sunday and not to the Catholic Church, but I know that that would be a sin since the EO are in schism. I am soooo confused! Any thoughts???**To some degree, all of us have aesthetic attractions to this or that. I find the TLM both aesthetically pleasing and ā€œLatin cleanā€, and it resonates in my Roman marrow. Wish there was a TLM offered near here. I was an English Literature major and am half in love with Anglican verbiage. Surpassingly clear and expressive and reverent. Wish there was an Anglican Use Mass near here. But I am in a rural parish, and the liturgy is as plain as plain can be, and utterly, utterly centered on the Eucharist. Half or more of the songs sung are old Protestant hymns. But then, I was raised in the hills of the Upper South, and when I was a kid, those hymns were almost the only thing you could get on the radio. You couldn’t even get TV then because of the hills. I listened to them, and sang them with the fundamentalists in the strawberry patches where they and I picked in the hot sun. I used to go watch the Fundamentalist brush arbor revivals on the hillsides (ā€œchicken on the groundā€) and the full-dunk cold-as-ice creek baptisms. And I would watch those people ā€œcome to Jesusā€ in their simple, yet, to all appearance, fervent ways. And eventually I came to realize the Eucharist is the very thing they were all yearning for, but didn’t know it. Now, in my parish, at 10:00 a.m. Mass on Sunday, the music is played on a hammered dulcimer by the convert daughter of a deep country Missionary Baptist preacher. And we have lots and lots of converts; virtually all from evangelical churches. And the Eucharist is everything. We’re all ā€œcomin’ to Jesusā€ in our simple country way, I guess you could say. And I’m happy with that too.

A lot of this depends on your background; the one you grew up with, your educational background, your aesthetic sense (I love Edwardian English of Anglican Use and the Elizabethan English of the hills (yes that’s what it is), being both raised and educated with them; reveling in them like a hungry man at a feast. You love iconastis and Greek, I expect, being educated in the latter, and the mystery and hypnotic mysticism and sheer ancientness of it. But we just ought not lose sight of the Universality that is Catholicism. There’s a black Catholic church in St. Louis at which Sunday Mass is mind-blowing color and loud ā€œAMEN!sā€ and big bright hats on the ladies and long, stem-winding emotional sermons by the black priest, and some of the most beautifully rhythmic and harmonic singing you have ever heard-wonderful to hear. And that’s mine too, as I lived three years in the slums of St. Louis while I was in graduate school, and I am amazed to this day that I was at home there. And I sometimes go to the Hispanic Mass in our parish, at which the music is, to my ears, mariachi and men and women will sometimes, right during Mass, go up before the statue of Jesus and whisper their private sorrows and prayers to Him, sometimes in tears, and I wonder. And on Good Friday, they’ll walk up the (long) steps of the church on their knees, and I marvel at the emotion that would move them to do that; old men and women, beautiful young ladies and guys you would figure for ā€œcholosā€ on the street. And that’s my Church too. And last Christmas, at a country Polish parish near here, I was treated to ā€œLulaj-ze Jezuniu moje perelkoā€. Chopin was fond of it you know, and incorporated it into one of his symphonies. The translated words will bring tears to your eyes; peasant simple and lovely. ā€œSleep baby Jesus, my little pearl…:ā€ Look it up in full. It’ll make you choke down tears. All of this is my ā€œUniverseā€. My Catholic Church. Don’t give her up, man. **
 
Who said it was guaranteed for anyone?
One of the popes defined martyrdom of certain types a guarantee of heaven.

Oh, and Christ himself guaranteed one man entry to heaven, whilst still on the Cross.
 
What does this mean actually? In reality, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, Jews, Hindus, Moslems, and Buddhists can attain eternal salvation.
In theory if they are invincibly ignorant then yes, there is still a chance for them. But it is far far more difficult.
 
Antonius,

I am a 21 year old convert from United Methodism to Catholicism (converted at age 17). I’m from Georgia, go to school here at UGA in Athens, and also have a deep appreciation for the Church’s Byzantine heritage.

I’ve heard St. Ignatios’ is a great church. Melkites don’t usually skimp on Byzantine liturgical traditions; in other words, they’re usually very faithful to their Byzantine heritage. The priest there, and a few of the parishioners, are converts from The Episcopal Church.

Please private message me if you’d like to talk more about your interest in Byzantine liturgical patrimony as well as your confusion about Eastern Orthodox claims. I have AIM if you prefer.
 
Hi Antonius,

very interesting what you are saying. please do some more research in ecclesiastical history and you will find out that your suspisions are correct. The one true holy catholic and apostolic church is indeed the Eastern Orthodox one, exactly because it is mistical and the burden is on us, in our personal relation with God.
 
I’m afraid Markthenoble doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Even if he does, he’s not really making sense in trying to explain it.

How is the Eastern Orthodox Communion more mystical than the Catholic one? We can certainly discuss whether it is or isn’t, but first I think Mark needs to extrapolate on what exactly he means.

The Apostolic Faith is the one held fast to by the Catholic Orthodox Church in communion with the Pope. The Holy Catholic Church is the only entity which continues to safeguard the traditional Orthodox Christian understanding of divorce and contraception.

Believe me, I WISH Eastern Orthodoxy were true. I’d have a much better time attending Divine Liturgy than the wretched Novus Ordo Missae.
 
The one true holy catholic and apostolic church is indeed the Eastern Orthodox one.
While, as an Orthodox Christian, this is obviously your opinion, I should warn you, as a new poster, that the EC forum is probably not the best place to debate the issue.
 
I would like to add, though, that I am not a fan of stifling debate, and I think that Eastern Orthodox believers should have a chance to voice their opinions here, or at least somewhere on this Forum. Telling people to shut up doesn’t satisfy the readers’ hunger for truth and for logic, and it also makes it look like the people silencing them are worried that those others might be right.
 
I would like to add, though, that I am not a fan of stifling debate, and I think that Eastern Orthodox believers should have a chance to voice their opinions here, or at least somewhere on this Forum. Telling people to shut up doesn’t satisfy the readers’ hunger for truth and for logic, and it also makes it look like the people silencing them are worried that those others might be right.
That is fair enough, really it is.

But this isn’t the sub-forum for that.

I am all for a discussion on the matter, but it belongs in the ā€œNon-Catholic Forumā€ or ā€œApologetics Forumā€
 
يا Ų±ŲØ يسوع Ų§Ł„Ł…Ų³ŁŠŲ­ ابن اللّه Ų§Ł„Ų­ŁŠŁ‘ Ų„Ų±Ų­Ł…Ł†ŁŠ أنا الخاطئ
Ameen.

God bless,

Rony
 
Antonius,

I am a 21 year old convert from United Methodism to Catholicism (converted at age 17). I’m from Georgia, go to school here at UGA in Athens, and also have a deep appreciation for the Church’s Byzantine heritage.

I’ve heard St. Ignatios’ is a great church. Melkites don’t usually skimp on Byzantine liturgical traditions; in other words, they’re usually very faithful to their Byzantine heritage. The priest there, and a few of the parishioners, are converts from The Episcopal Church.

Please private message me if you’d like to talk more about your interest in Byzantine liturgical patrimony as well as your confusion about Eastern Orthodox claims. I have AIM if you prefer.
Hello Alexios! It seems you and I were in the same boat. PM me sometime so we can talk. We obviously have a lot in common. šŸ‘

Pace e Bene
Andrew
 
Harpazo,

I tried PM’ing you but my computer’s acting up. Maybe you could PM me and then I can just respond. Thanks.

Simple,

You know, I’m Logos - Alexis over at The Byzantine Forum! And I agree that EO issues shouldn’t be discussed in this sub-forum. But somewhere!
 
I will one day read more into the history of Eastern Catholicism.I am still new and in RCIA,too. I do have a question. Aren’t the Eastern Catholics the original sect to have once tried to get the idea of Jesus not being Human and God,but a separte being apart from God? Is that Arianism that I am trying to understand? Can someone spread some light on that for me. Or at least explain what I am trying to put into words.

Thanks
 
There is no salvation outside the Church. The Church was founded on Peter. The Pope is the successor of Peter. In my view, leaving communion with him would put your salvation in jeopardy.

If you can find a TLM, you can experience the same reverence and mystery that the Orthodox have maintained in their liturgies. If not, frequent Eucharistic adoration may be the best option you have.
You’re mistaken. Neither Sacred Scripture nor Sacred Tradition suggest one must be a Catholic Christian here on Earth in order to be eligible for salvation at the time of our respective final judgments by God.

Further, in no way is the Tridentine Mass in any way intrinsically more reverent or mystical than the Pauline Mass.
 
Antonius Lupus;3216464:
Well for the first time in my journey home to the Catholic Church I am experiencing doubts about my calling. It all began when I did some study into the Eastern rites of the Catholic Church.

Could you please use the teminology Eastern Catholic Churches and not ā€œRitesā€.
Ung
ā€œChurchesā€ are not analogous to ā€œritesā€ in the Catholic Church. Within the Byzantine Rite for example, there are several churches or traditions – and it’s ā€œchurchesā€ not ā€œChurchesā€ in this context as there is only one Catholic Church.
 
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