Answering "hate religion, love Jesus"

[onemangang]

It’s a fadish thing to say is what apologists should say. It has within it a perception of surperiority that “I have something those poor dumb Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans, Methodists, ect. don’t have”
Instead of using thier definition of the word, its better to simply remind them of the origins of the word.

Interesting! I have heard a pastor say he says “it’s not about religion, it’s about a relationship” in order to provoke people trapped in ritualism (Catholics) to jealousy!

Out here in Southern California there are myriads of anti-catholic ex-catholics. Many of them will tell you they never knew Christ because of “ritualism.”

I think we Catholics that explore and understand our faith more fully than others that are in the pews, need to reach out to our brothers and sisters in Christ.

The laity has been at the forefront of this evangelization via the New Media. There needs to be more of that.

There are two separate non-catholic FM radio stations spreading all types of anti-catholic, shallow philosophies and deceptive traditions of men in the greater Los Angeles area.
We Catholics need an FM radio station in Los Angeles, (and in every major city really), aimed at bringing the uncatechized, and the ex now anti-catholic back home! at least IMHO!

 

[EricFilmer]

Well said, but there have been a few wars that were over religion so be careful. For example the crusades and after the Reformation (protestant wars) etc…

This has occurred to me in the past, but although religion has sometimes been cited as an excuse to engage in wars, economics are invariably the real motive. In terms of the Crusades, Islamic kingdoms wanted to expand beyond arid, desert regions to places with greater resources. The Byzantines asked the Western Christians for help against the Muslims because they were next to get overrun. Most of the crusading knights were the lesser sons of nobility who were not going to inherit land in Europe and therefore wanted to conquer holdings in the Near East. Although religion was cited as an excuse on both sides of the Crusades, economic circumstances would probably have resulted in these wars regardless of religion.

In terms of fighting in the aftermath of the Reformation, this was also the time of the rise of Nationalism. What was also at stake was whether or not nations would continue to send money to Rome, or keep it circulating within their own communities, which national churches would allow for.

When a nation goes to war, it commits precious resources, including money, food, supplies and, of course, the lives of its young people. They also risk retaliation from the other side, and the high costs in blood and treasure associated with that. Nations rarely ever take such risks unless there is an potential economic payoff that is deemed worth the risk.

But even if we could find an example of a war or two that was actually fought in the name of religion (over any economic desires), these would be rare exceptions. The guy in the video asks why religion “has caused so many wars?”, which sounds like the old unsubstantiated argument that “more wars have been fought in the name of religion than anything else.” The question is, does religion actually “cause” wars, or is it just a handy excuse to get people motivated to risk their lives?

 

[Barbkw]

So…this young singer who needed a cheap advertizing outlet to market his wares, was attending a church while addicted to pornography.

And then, he gave up his church attendance in order to fight his addiction to pornography.

And now, he evangelizes in song against all church attendance, cuz now that he’s found “Jesus” and youTube, he’s “holier than thou.”

Um hum, so American.

 

[nickybr38]

This has occurred to me in the past, but although religion has sometimes been cited as an excuse to engage in wars, economics are invariably the real motive. In terms of the Crusades, Islamic kingdoms wanted to expand beyond arid, desert regions to places with greater resources. The Byzantines asked the Western Christians for help against the Muslims because they were next to get overrun. Most of the crusading knights were the lesser sons of nobility who were not going to inherit land in Europe and therefore wanted to conquer holdings in the Near East. Although religion was cited as an excuse on both sides of the Crusades, economic circumstances would probably have resulted in these wars regardless of religion.

In terms of fighting in the aftermath of the Reformation, this was also the time of the rise of Nationalism. What was also at stake was whether or not nations would continue to send money to Rome, or keep it circulating within their own communities, which national churches would allow for.

When a nation goes to war, it commits precious resources, including money, food, supplies and, of course, the lives of its young people. They also risk retaliation from the other side, and the high costs in blood and treasure associated with that. Nations rarely ever take such risks unless there is an potential economic payoff that is deemed worth the risk.

But even if we could find an example of a war or two that was actually fought in the name of religion (over any economic desires), these would be rare exceptions. The guy in the video asks why religion “has caused so many wars?”, which sounds like the old unsubstantiated argument that “more wars have been fought in the name of religion than anything else.” The question is, does religion actually “cause” wars, or is it just a handy excuse to get people motivated to risk their lives?

What’s funny about this is I am currently reading a book that tracks the worst warlords in history… and strangely none of them (so far, I haven’t finished the book!) started ANY war because of a religious belief.

One could argue, however, that some battles in the Old Testament seem to be religiously, not economically, motivated. But even if they were, modern history shows us that religion is very rarely the ‘cause’ of war.

American Civil War - Not religiously motivated
World War 1 - Not religiously motivated
Vietnam War - Not religiously motivated
World War 2 - Not religiously motivated
Afghanistan War - One could argue religious motivation but there are many others who would argue this wasn’t the true motivation behind this war.

Now, these aren’t the only modern wars that exist, they’re just the ones that pop into my head right away but I think it’s pretty clear modern warfare has had very little to do with religion, if anything at all.

 

[Kristin234]

So…this young singer who needed a cheap advertizing outlet to market his wares, was attending a church while addicted to pornography.

Yes he is a sinner. He admits that. Everyone who goes to church is a sinner. Unless you found a way to avoid that?

And then, he gave up his church attendance in order to fight his addiction to pornography.

He never said he stopped going to church. All he said was before he had Jesus in his life he would go to church and pretend he was a good Christian when in reality he wasn’t living that way.

And now, he evangelizes in song against all church attendance, cuz now that he’s found “Jesus” and youTube, he’s “holier than thou.”

So, where does he say doesn’t go to church? How is he acting holier than thou when he is saying he hates religion but loves Jesus? A lot of Catholics on here say that Protestants do not have the full truth because they aren’t Catholic but that Catholics do have the full truth. Do I go around saying they are “holier than thou”?

 

[Barbkw]

He’s “holier than thou” in that he “believes” that people who attend church “look down” on one another.

Apparently he did, when he was attending his church. Instead of changing his attitude, he blames others and then gave up “religion”.

Rediculous mumbo jumbo.

 

[Kristin234]

He’s “holier than thou” in that he “believes” that people who attend church “look down” on one another.

Apparently he did, when he was attending his church. Instead of changing his attitude, he blames others and then gave up “religion”.

Rediculous mumbo jumbo.

Key word: Apparently. He himself never said he stopped going to church.

And changing his attitude? He has completely changed and he did it because of Christ! I have heard this guy’s testimony before. He went from having sex, getting drunk every week, didn’t know God at all to preaching the word of God to everyone he meets.

And when does he blame others and say he gave up religion? He says that he used to go to church and act like a good guy when he wasn’t following Christ at all.

It is not right to judge someone and make assumptions about them when you heard one little thing. It is also not right to assume stuff and say he did/didn’t do certain things when he himself has never made those claims.

I don’t agree with a lot of stuff people say but the last thing I will do is make assumptions about people and make statements about them as if they are true.

 

[Andromedus]

Yes, but he is speaking from his experience…which is understandable, because most people do that–especially artists, who like to make good use of that Freedom of Expression amendment.
And, of course, you have the freedom to be annoyed, too!

But he does give some reasons as to why he believes what he believes–that the structure of religion is bad–wars, killing, etc. So while a classic Christian will think his separation of Jesus and “religion” is ridiculous, he at least bases his feelings and beliefs on something negative he sees today, and in the history books, that have affected him deeply.

Please, just answer a simple question, is the belief in a god a religious belief or not? If you say yes then you admit that he is no different from the ‘‘religious people’’ he talks about. Religion is defined more by its belief than the structures which might or might not be included in it. He got religious beliefs and therefore he is a religious person.

Re people who say things like “I love Jesus but hate religion”…I’m not sure how you are defining phenomenon, but I do think this sort of “saying” has been around as long as religion has been around. There have always been people of every religion who have taken apart the messenger, the message, and what was built around each–and embraced only some parts because the other(s) don’t ring true to them.

I find it hard to believe that my Heathen ancestors ever would have said something like ‘‘I am not a follower of the customs, I just like to give animals away to Odin every Wednesday because he is my friend’’. But sure, I get your point, I think. The thing is, the word religion is not just about some forms of Christianity with ‘‘structures’’, the meaning of the word contains all forms of religious belief in the world. Belief in God, gods, reincarnation, Hell, Heaven, saints, devils, spirits, Shamans, relics, the power of a ritual etc. ‘‘Religious belief’’ does not require that you believe in some sort of religious organization, it is common but ‘‘religious belief’’ is not defined by something like that.

You actually find many Catholics out there today–the “phenomenon” of the “Cafeteria Catholic”–who IMO do just what this kid is doing–embracing the parts they like, and refusing the parts they don’t like, about a religion.

But I don’t think they say ‘‘The Catholic Church is not a church, it is a family!’’ or ‘‘my mother’’ or something…

How is he acting holier than thou when he is saying he hates religion but loves Jesus? A lot of Catholics on here say that Protestants do not have the full truth because they aren’t Catholic but that Catholics do have the full truth. Do I go around saying they are “holier than thou”?

Well, yes we do believe that we have the truth but we don’t necessarily understand it and probably we never will either until we stands before God and I am not even sure we will do so then either, but you can always hope.

 

[Barbkw]

Key word: Apparently. He himself never said he stopped going to church.

And changing his attitude? He has completely changed and he did it because of Christ! I have heard this guy’s testimony before. He went from having sex, getting drunk every week, didn’t know God at all to preaching the word of God to everyone he meets.

And when does he blame others and say he gave up religion? He says that he used to go to church and act like a good guy when he wasn’t following Christ at all.

It is not right to judge someone and make assumptions about them when you heard one little thing. It is also not right to assume stuff and say he did/didn’t do certain things when he himself has never made those claims.

I don’t agree with a lot of stuff people say but the last thing I will do is make assumptions about people and make statements about them as if they are true.

The guy is standing in front of a church, talking down about churches and religion and then he posts his tune on youTube and titles it, “I Don’t Have a Religion, I Just Believe in Jesus.”

He makes a comment about beautiful churches who don’t give to the poor. That’s judgemental is it not? How does he know whether or not these churches do or don’t give to the poor?

Mumbo jumbo.

 

[Loboto-Me]

This is what the “Bad Catholic” Blog thinks of the video

patheos.com/blogs/badcatholic/2012/01/why-i-hate-religion-but-love-jesus-the-smackdow.html

 

[JustaServant]

Watched it.
Oh yeah, he’s got issues/

 

[tomarin]

It’s “religion” redefined as “man-made religion.” Therefore it is never the religion of the person speaking, always someone else’s religion which is perceived as in opposition to the speaker’s religion.

It’s a dichotomy between “man-made religion” and “real religion”. But I’ve spoken to people who genuinely did not seem to be aware of how fraudulent this distinction is.

 

[JustaServant]

It’s “religion” redefined as “man-made religion.” Therefore it is never the religion of the person speaking, always someone else’s religion which is perceived as in opposition to the speaker’s religion.

STOP BEING LOGICAL!!!

 

[JustaServant]

I have heard this guy’s testimony before. He went from having sex, getting drunk every week, didn’t know God at all to preaching the word of God to everyone he meets.

Even as a Baptist pastor I learned to be leery of people like this. Their “testimony” nine times out of ten turned out to have been embellished at best, at worst made up completely.

 

[AthenaC]

“I don’t have a religion, I just believe in Jesus!”

To that I reply: “If you really believe in Jesus, you would follow the Church that he founded.”

'Nuff said.

 

[yellowbird]

“I don’t have a religion, I just believe in Jesus!”

To that I reply: “If you really believe in Jesus, you would follow the Church that he founded.”

'Nuff said.

 

[anp1215]

don’t know if anyone has posted it yet, but badcatholic has a great article disputing this video

 

[Anthony_V]

From this video’s text commentary:

“This poem highlights my journey to discover this truth. Religion either ends in pride or despair. Pride because you make a list and can do it and act better than everyone…”

But pride can also manifest itself in making a YouTube video spouting off a bunch of unsubstantiated and poorly conceived anti-Church cliches. Here are some things this guy says, and my thoughts in response to them:

"What if I told you, Jesus came to abolish religion?"
I would ask you why Jesus didn’t tell me this himself.
There’s lots of stuff Jesus said in the Bible, but “I came to abolish religion” isn’t in there.

"If religion is so great why has it started so many wars?"
It hasn’t started any wars. Economics is the real reason behind wars, so make an anti-economics video.

"Why does it build huge churches…"
Like the Temple in which Jesus prayed, taught, paid the temple tax, and drove out money-changers?

"…but fails to feed the poor?"
The Catholic Church is one of the largest charity organizations in the world. Add the charities run by Orthodox Churches and Protestant denominations and you have the poor being fed in every corner of the world. My parish helped establish the local food bank, routinely staffs it with volunteers and takes up 12 collections each year to help support it.

"Tells single moms God does not love them if they’ve ever had a divorce"
Uh, exactly who ever said this?

"But in the Old Testament God actually calls religious people whores"
Yes, but the specific religious people being referred to were idolaters.

"Tend to ridicule God’s people; they did it to John the Baptist"
Uh, exactly who is doing this ridiculing of God’s people?
And John the Baptist was not ridiculed. The Pharisees questioned him, and refused to accept him, and Herod Antipas imprisoned him and executed him, but I know of no instance of him being ridiculed.

"It’s just behavior modification…"
Ever hear of the Ten Commandments?

"…like a long list of chores"
Ever hear of the Book of Leviticus?

"I ain’t judging, I’m just saying…"
Well that’s good to know.

"Quite putting on a fake look, because there’s a problem if people only know you’re a Christian by your Facebook"
I thought you weren’t judging.

"Because if grace is water then the Church should be an ocean…"
My parish baptizes between 70 and 100 people a year. How’s that for some grace-filled water?

"…It’s not a museum for the righteous but a hospital for the broken"
My parish has an ER and an ICU. It’s called the confessional.

"I don’t have to hide my failure, I don’t have to hide my sin, because it doesn’t depend on me, it depends on Him"
A sentiment shared by every person who goes to the above-mentioned confessional.

"Which is why Jesus hated religion"
I didn’t know Jesus hated anything. And where in the Bible did Jesus say, “I hate religion”?
Maybe it’s in the place with that other hard to find passage about Jesus coming to abolish religion.

"Don’t you see it’s so much better than just following some rules?"
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” (John 14:15)

"But if Jesus came to your church, would they actually let him in?"
He’s already there.

"He was called a glutton and a drunkard by religious men"
And other religious men called him “Lord” and the “Son of God.”

"But the Son of God never supports self-righteousness, not now, not then."
This is very true!
As a matter-of-fact, every time I feel compelled to create a YouTube video to tell people what I think is the proper attitude they should have in order to be true Christians, I remind myself of the dangers of self-righteousness and refrain from doing it.

"Religion puts you in bondage, while Jesus sets you free"
I would like to know of one thing that my religion has enslaved me to that Jesus wants to free me from.

"Religion is man searching for God while Christianity is God searching for man"
I thought Christianity was a religion.

"Which is why salvation is freely mine, and forgiveness is my own, not based on my merits, but on Jesus’ obedience alone"
And this is a doctrine taught by the Catholic Church, all the Orthodox Churches and all the Protestant denominations. This guy acts like this is some sort of new revelation.

"That’s why I literally hate religion, in fact I resent it, because when Jesus said ‘It is finished’ I believe that he meant it"
And what exactly are you saying here? That when Jesus died on the cross it was supposed to be the end of religion? Then explain how you would have known that Jesus died on the cross for your sins without religion as a vehicle to preserve and teach this to every generation for 2000 years?

And I believe that when Jesus established the Church and gave his followers the Great Commission, he literally meant it.
Exactly how does a person have a Church and obey the Great Commission not in the context of a religion???

That was brilliant. It made me laugh.

 

[anp1215]

I love this:

“If Jesus came to your church, would they let him in?”

Um, yes. We actually snagged a picture.
http://0.tqn.com/d/catholicism/1/0/M/-/-/-/Consecration_at_DC_Mass.jpg

So this is awkward.

from the refutation on badcatholic
patheos.com/blogs/badcatholic/2012/01/why-i-hate-religion-but-love-jesus-the-smackdow.html

 

[pcg2]

youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY

In the description of the video, he writes: “A poem I wrote to highlight the difference between Jesus and false religion. In the scriptures Jesus received the most opposition from the most religious people of his day. At it’s core Jesus’ gospel and the good news of the Cross is in pure opposition to self-righteousness/self-justification. Religion is man centered, Jesus is God-centered.”

This video has been poping up on my Facebook feed like crazy the past few days, and I admittedly get angry every time I see it.

I guess this is an issue of “having faith without religion”… what do you guys think of it/how would you respond to someone who told you this?