Answers from an Orthodox Jew

[Moses613]

You’re welcome!

 

[Gab123]

he fights the Wars of G-d (i.e. defends Israel), then he may be presumed to be the Messiah. If he succeeds in his efforts and defeats the enemies around and builds the Sanctuary in its proper place and gathers the dispersed of Israel, he is definitely the Messiah.

So then the messiah as you see him will be a political and military figure who will use military force to crush all the enemies to Israel? Are you talking about the state of Israel? If so, what are you thoughts about the majority of Orthodox Jews who protest agains the existence of the State of Israel? It seems like the mainstream media ignores or buries these stories, but most Orthodox Jews are against the state of Israel. Do you share these views, and what are your views on Zionism?

 

[Maximilian75]

What’s the Orthodox Saturday Sabbath service like? How is it structured?

 

[Moses613]

Continuing the discussion from Ask me anything (almost) about Judaism:

In Israel, the work prohibition is only on the first and the last day. Outside of Israel it is the first and the last two days. Why there is this difference I do not know.

The “second day of festivals in the Diaspora” was enacted because originally, the day of the new month was fixed by visual testimony of the new moon in front of the high court in Jerusalem. Therefore, festivals could fall on one of two days depending on which day was “sanctified” as the first of the lunar month. News about which day the new moon was on could not travel to the Diaspora in time to fix the date of the festival, so two days were kept out of doubt. Even after the calendar was fixed in the time of Hillel II, the law of the second day of the Diaspora remained in effect. The Sages saw there was benefit to this custom (I say “custom” but it’s a very strict law in fact) even after the enactment of the fixed calendar - many explanations have been given over the years, but that is the law.

Continuing the discussion from Ask me anything (almost) about Judaism:

In theory, I suppose that a Cohen, if a Jewish male, could resume the priesthood of Aaron. But it is not going to happen due to probable past discrepancies or omissions in the genealogical record. Moses613 no doubt knows much more about this topic than I do. I would wait for his response (after Passover).

A few points: First of all, just because someone has the last name Cohen or knows he is descended from a kohen does not necessarily make him a kohen. Kohanim must conform to Biblical laws about who they can marry, otherwise their descendants lose kohen status. Thus, if a kohen marries a divorcee his sons will not be kohanim, whatever their last names.
In order to serve in the Temple, a kohen’s lineage must be documented with witnesses for each generation. Today no such thing exists, therefore, it would be quite difficult to envision a scenario where a kohen could serve until there is a prophet to establish who is and is not a valid kohen.

 

[Gab123]

It should not occur to you that the King Messiah must bring wondrous signs or perform marvels or invent new things or revive the dead or anything like what the fools say.

Also, who do you mean by fools?

 

[Moses613]

The messiah will be, first and foremost, a completely righteous religious leader. He will also take on the mantle of a political and military leader subsequently. Few if any orthodox Jews think that the Israel of today is going to be substantially the same as the Israel of the messianic era. The disagreement is whether the State of Israel will transform over a period of time into the messianic kingdom itself (this need not necessarily be a monarchy… it’s complicated) or if it will be replaced by an entirely new entity.
I can assure you that the majority of orthodox Jews do not protest against the existence of the State of Israel. Even the biggest orthodox “anti-Zionists” believe it should not have been created, but do not advocate its dismantling or giving control to the Arabs (duh… they’re not suicidal). Only a small fringe sect of a few hundred people believes that, but they get some press now and then. Orthodox Jews are split between between those who think Israel is a positive step toward the Messianic era and those who say the State per se has absolutely no religious significance, but try to work within the system to make it more supportive of the religious community. Due to political reasons, a Satmar anti-Zionist will never say he “supports Israel” but you can bet he or she will vote for the politician they think will be better for Israel…
As far as my own views on Zionism, it would take a whole essay. I don’t approve of all the steps that led to the creation of the state but I believe its current existence is a gift from God that benefits us.

Also, who do you mean by fools?

It’s not me using that word, it’s Maimonides. I assume he is talking about various Jewish commentators whom he disagreed with, or the common folk.

 

[Moses613]

What’s the Orthodox Saturday Sabbath service like? How is it structured?

Well there’s a lot to talk about. In very broad terms, the morning service must begin within the first three daylight hours, typically lasts about 2-2.5 hours depending on the synagogue, and includes psalms, silent prayer, repetition of prayer by the cantor, public reading of the weekly Torah portion and a selection from the Prophets. In the vast majority of orthodox synagogues, this is 100% in Hebrew (there’s a little Aramaic sprinkled into the liturgy as well).

 

[Aulef]

I must say. One of the main reasons I came back to catholicism was understanding judaism from the Old Testament. It really filled in the knowledge gaps I had in order to understand the Church.

And modern judaism is one of the sources I consult when I need some insight.

 

[Gab123]

I can assure you that the majority of orthodox Jews do not protest against the existence of the State of Israel.

Not according to many Orthodox Rabbis I have listened to, who claim otherwise. And there are plenty of videos of Orthodox Rabbis protesting the existence of the state of Israel. For example here are two videos. The first showing these of thousands of Orthodox Jews protesting the state of Israel. The second video is very powerful, as it is an Orthodox Rabbi explaining in detail how the vast majority of Orthodox Rabbis condemn the existence of the State of Israeli:

 

[Moses613]

#1 video: I know lots of people who went to that rally, so I’m in a better position to evaluate their motivations than YouTube. Contrary to the narrator, they were not protesting “the existence” of Israel. They were protesting the draft of yeshiva students. Some of the speeches were laced with typical harsh Satmar rhetoric about the evil state and its minions who rebel against God’s kingdom. This is their religious ideology. It has no bearing on their actually wanting to dismantle the State of Israel and give it to someone else. I’m telling you, it sounds counterintuitive but it’s true. You know, someone should make a video where they walk around Williamsburg and ask people if they think Israel should be given to the Palestinians. They do not.
#2: Dovid Weiss is one of the crazies I spoke about earlier. He is the leader of a group of a few hundred people, literally. Satmar, the biggest and most influential anti-Zionist chassidic group, EXCOMMUNICATED him and his followers. Does that tell you anything? See here: https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3340592,00.html

How can you see an orthodox Jew wearing a kefiyyeh-type design around his neck and a Palestinian flag and not realize he’s gone off the deep end?
Sorry

Another couple points: - many people at the rally were not Satmar - the rally lasted many hours and they chose a few clips of the few speakers who spoke this way - many did not necessarily agree with everything that was said.

 

[meltzerboy2]

Are you saying that what appears on YouTube may not always be 100% accurate and that those who post videos on YT may be, either intentionally or unwittingly, bending the truth? How shocking!

 

[Gab123]

#1 video: I know lots of people who went to that rally, so I’m in a better position to evaluate their motivations than YouTube.

Fair enough; though there are many other videos of Orthodox Rabbis protesting against not only the State of Israel but the political movement known as Zionism.

#2: Dovid Weiss is one of the crazies I spoke about earlier. He is the leader of a group of a few hundred people, literally._

It’s one thing to be dismissive and call him crazy, it’s quite another thing to actually listen to what he is saying.

How can you see an orthodox Jew wearing a kefiyyeh-type design around his neck and a Palestinian flag and not realize he’s gone off the deep end?

Your statement gets to the heart of the matter and the reason why there is no peace in the region in the first place. They are pointing out that Palestinians and Jews were living in harmony for centuries in Palestine before the creation of the State of Israel and its ever expanding march to swallow up the whole region by displacing native palestinians. Here are two videos everyone should take the time to watch to understand Judaism and its relation to the State of Israel and the movement known as Zionism:

The video is by Miko Peled, an Israeli peace activist whose Father, Matti Peled was an officer in the war of 1948 and a general in the war of 1967. Miko’s grandfather, Dr. Avraham Katsnelson, was a Zionist leader and signer of the Israeli Declaration of Independence. In the second interview he goes in detail about all the ethnic cleansing and shows the shocking reconstruction of the map of the region and how it was designed to strangle and kill all hope for peace in the region. he speaks about all the ethic cleansing that was perpetrated and is still going on: Worth watching regardless if you are Jewish, Christian, Muslim or Atheist. Just a human being, a member of the human race:

 

[Irishmom2]

Oh, I thought this thread was to ask Moses the OP, questions, not to school him and push an opposite agenda. My bad. This sounds more like something that belongs in a political forum.

 

[kainosktisis]

2 Questions (Ok, maybe 3…):

1. Can you tell us about Lilith?
2. Are there actually 2 creation accounts in Judaism?
3. Can you tell us about the guf (if that’s how it’s spelled)?

 

[Maximilian75]

I guess this thread would be better titled ‘Debate an Orthodox Jew’ as opposed to 'Questions for an orthodox jew"

 

[Gab123]

Oh, I thought this thread was to ask Moses the OP, questions, not to school him and push an opposite agenda. My bad. This sounds more like something that belongs in a political forum.

I have my own questions, go ahead and ask your own questions. Stop pushing panic buttons. Now carry on.

 

[Irishmom2]

Why don’t you stop accusing people of pushing panic buttons and start your own thread asking your own question then?

 

[Gab123]

Are you saying that what appears on YouTube may not always be 100% accurate and that those who post videos on YT may be, either intentionally or unwittingly, bending the truth? How shocking!

As for the videos of the Rabbis and Israeli citizens sharing their views, I think people can judge for themselves. Those people in the videos have a right to speak their views on relevant issues. As a non-Orthodox Jew, what are your views on the Zionist movement within Israel?

 

[Maximilian75]

Absolutely.

If you (@Gab123) want to refute Moses’ ideas point by point, feel free to do so. Just write a PM. Don’t ruin a good thread with unnessecary avarice.

 

[Gab123]

I guess this thread would be better titled ‘Debate an Orthodox Jew’ as opposed to 'Questions for an orthodox jew"

I’m not debating, I’m simply asking questions about Judaism and would like to hear Moses’ answers