Anti-abortion and eat meat = hypocritical?

[SuperLuigi]

We all share this planet with the animals and they are the more peaceful of the creatures.

It’s like reading liberalism 101.

Actually, a lot of animals hunt and kill each other routinely. They also kill their mates and each other’s young.

So unless you’re living in old Papua New Guinea…

 

[Rau]

Now, I’ll grant that the superior beef producers are fed grain for 80 to 120 days in feed lots. But that’s unnecessary. Aussies don’t do that, for example. They eat fully grass-fed beef.

It’s a bit of a moving feast actually (if you’ll excuse the brilliant pun).

Pasture-fed cattle still make up the majority of the Australian beef industry, but since the mid 1980s the use of grain feedlots to ‘finish off’ cattle has increased dramatically. Around 75 per cent of the meat found in Australia’s big supermarkets today will be grass-fed beef that has been finished on grain.
Recently, there has been an increasing demand for grass-fed Australian beef at farmers markets, butchers’ and supermarkets, from shoppers who desire a more natural product for environmental, health or ethical reasons.

Grain Fed or Grass Fed

 

[Ridgerunner]

Animals kill out of hunger, breeding rights or fear, humans kill for much less.

Sometimes. But animals also kill out of the sheer joy of killing. I have seen it quite a bit. A lot of animals will do that far more readily than humans will. Canids and cats will do it. Also ferrets, mink and some other small predators. Some of them will just keep killing as long as there’s something they can kill. And while humans have been known to kill for “breeding rights”, animals will do it far more readily. Same with envy. I won’t kill my neighbor for what’s in his refrigerator or bank account, and few would. But animals will maim or kill over prey without hesitation, and they’ll steal food items they have no intention whatever of eating.

Some animals do have food choices. Feral hogs will eat anything, from roots to human beings, and they’ll prefer meat over vegetation when both are available. Same with bears and baboons.

 

[Ridgerunner]

It’s a bit of a moving feast actually (if you’ll excuse the brilliant pun).

Pasture-fed cattle still make up the majority of the Australian beef industry, but since the mid 1980s the use of grain feedlots to ‘finish off’ cattle has increased dramatically. Around 75 per cent of the meat found in Australia’s big supermarkets today will be grass-fed beef that has been finished on grain.

Recently, there has been an increasing demand for grass-fed Australian beef at farmers markets, butchers’ and supermarkets, from shoppers who desire a more natural product for environmental, health or ethical reasons.

Grain Fed or Grass Fed

I’m not a nutritional expert, but I understand that grass-fed beef has the same level of “good” cholesterol as fish, but without the mercury. Grain “finishing” is for the increased fat content. Fat tastes good, or at least it does to some people. As a kid, I couldn’t tolerate eating fat, and would excise it from any meat I had with surgical precision. I still prefer grass-fed.

But again, most of the “grain” cattle get is stuff people won’t or can’t eat or shouldn’t eat. People eat sorghum grains in the third world, but people in the first world don’t to speak of. Some kinds of corn aren’t really human consumable. And, of course, “distillers’ grain” is really unattractive. If you smelled a spoonful of it, I guarantee you wouldn’t eat it.

 

[upant]

Might makes right then? I missed the part where Jesus said after turning the other cheek one should beat your adversary up.

you didn’t miss it. i was answering from evolution. concerning survival of the fittest, might does make right.

Animals kill for hunger, breeding rights or fear. Humans kill for much less.

yes some do but it is not the norm

 

[Jamie5]

Actually, a lot of animals hunt and kill each other routinely. They also kill their mates and each other’s young.

So unless you’re living in old Papua New Guinea…

Actually no other animal but man murders and kills out of hatred, spite or discrimination. We are at the top of the food chain yes, but we alone are the only animal capable of killing all others, including outselves.

 

[PJM]

My friend I would like to reply to the OPQ HEADING

Anti-abortion and eat meat = hypocritical?

Eating MEAT: Moses 16:7-8 and many other places as well:

Exod.16: 7 -8 “and in the morning you shall see the glory of the LORD, because he has heard your murmurings against the LORD. For what are we, that you murmur against us?” And Moses said, "When the LORD gives you in the evening flesh to eat and in the morning bread to the full, because the LORD has heard your murmurings which you murmur against him – what are we? Your murmurings are not against us but against the LORD."

And thou SHALT NOT KILL is the 5th Commandment

God Bless you
Patrick

 

[Jamie5]

More people should definitely go vegetarian at least once a week or so, it really improves ones health.

 

[lotus1922]

lotus1922:

I’m involved in an ongoing internet debate with some atheist/ agnostic pro-lifers. Some of them argue that eating meat conflicts with believing that life is sacred, or with believing that the more vulnerable should be protected by the stronger.

Generally people that say “All life is sacred” are only considering human lives. I think what you are encountering is simply a case where a statement can be better qualified. The statement used to label one’s position here is different than their actual position.

To clarify, the person who first objected to the idea that someone can be pro-life and eat animals did so on the basis that “it is wrong to kill innocent sentient beings for selfish purposes.”

I pointed out that while animals are indeed sentient, they are not sapient ie, possessing the capacities for reason and logic, which only humans have. A fetus (since the context of the original conversation was the immorality of abortion, which we are both in agreement on) has personhood because it has human characteristics and feelings; thus slavery is immoral because it deprives a human of their personhood. OTOH animals cannot have personhood because by definition they are not human beings and have zero potential for becoming so. Hence, the keeping of animals as pets, companions, or work animals is not a denial of personhood.

 

[hymin]

The logic of an argument, however sound, could do little to sway a moral relativist. People use relativism to justify there own sins or to justify the negligence of not interacting with others to promote fraternal correction. Many relativists shift the focus on feelings and community attitudes rather than the reason of the mind.

The best approach is the trust consuming dialogues to the topic of worldviews. This takes place when you enter their world. The humble associate will allow the friction to get to the core of what needs to be said. This mode of the layperson, a “private individual” (STh Sup., q. 31, a. 1, Rep. 1) represents the best in this approach in the cause of effectiveness given they participate. While the “public officials” have better access to the duties of penance which all are called to perform - from which the perfection of life is pursued, the example is illuminating and the preaching has done to affirm the dialogue of the laity. Not that priest forfeit dialogue. The lay people who communicate with the sacraments are internally bound to speak to them. But the priest has a better position to indicate the divine at work in the world, and thus they have to be busy at the divine work. And that position inspires others to pursue their private work in a divine way. This can be equivocal so take this with other viewpoints.

I got off topic. Anyway, what makes an act hypocritical, according to the Angelic Doctor, is the performance of deliberate lying by the act itself. To act against abortion would be a lie if the person was not really against it, and intended to deceive. To act against eating meat would be a lie if the person was not intending on abstaining, and intended to deceive. The baby is not meat so they are not mutually exclusive.

 

[bquinnan]

I abstain from red meat on Fridays. It’s a nice tradition.

 

[jcrichton]

Hi, Jamie!

Have you ever watched the animal planet or another one of those nature networks?

Animals are different… they share some traits with humans but so does a banana (bananas share 50 or 60 percent of dna with humans–and some humans do go bananas); yet, this does not mean that they are interchangeable (unless your talking Guinea pigs); a lion would kill its predecessor or at least run it out of its territory; then, promptly, hunt down its predecessor’s offspring–the lionesses do attempt to help the old patriarch but as soon as the new one takes over they comply with its sexual quest to procreate and bring forth his own offspring… then there’s the house cat… this tiny terror predates on other wildlife while it pretends to be a lowly meowzer:
— both the pet Fluffies that spend part of the day outdoors and the unnamed strays and ferals that never leave it — kill a median of 2.4 billion birds and 12.3 billion mammals a year, most of them native mammals like shrews, chipmunks and voles rather than introduced pests like the Norway rat. (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/science/that-cuddly-kitty-of-yours-is-a-killer.html)

So no animals and humans are not the same brothers from different mothers!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Jamie5]

I agree, but I also think humans are the only creature on the planet capable of doing evil.

 

[jcrichton]

But aren’t you killing the tofu producing plant as you steal its fruit/vegi/vegan?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

…and what of bambi… I forget what island it was that there were all these birds being killed… the investigators found that bambi realized that a sweet young ground-nesting own (or some other bird) was a tasty morsel of succulent blood.

Yet, the vegan call that survival instincts.

Yes, it is complexing how man can be both the most intelligent cognizant creature on earth and yet the most destructive, including self-destructive.

Which brings us to God!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Have you wondered who are these humans that kill out of hate?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I fully concur.

But not because the act is not evil (as that prairie dog eating the offspring that would compete with its own offspring (national geographic/animal planet) and within minutes of devouring the offspring ran over to the troop to claim its matriarchy… that’s nature 101. Man on the other hand knows the difference between good and evil and man still chooses to commit evil.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

Frankly, I’d recommend just not getting into an argument with idiots. If they want to equate human life with animal life, they aren’t actually interested in an honest debate. Leave them to their smug self-righteousness.

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

After reading a bit more of this thread I felt this was an appropriate PSA to throw out there:

 

[SuperLuigi]

Then humans and animals are not equal.