Anti-abortion protest signs - how far is too far?

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felra:
Perhaps the courts need to allow for pamphlets with graphic images to be available in the abortion mills across the country, along with post-abortion risk factors (depression, substance abuse, etc) and available support groups.
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Yes, if only the courts would make that madatory in every clinic. But it seems like the government is only taking part in shielding the truth. They don’t want people to know the truth because then people will realize its wrong, the clinics would lose money, in turn so will the politicians that are being payed off by the clinics.
 
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pprimeau1976:
It is not that I think that displaying the raw truth about an abortion is wrong, I just don’t think it’s a good idea. If we are interested in changing people’s hearts, we have to analyze how *they *would react and what would make them have a change of heart. Let’s face it, if a person does not recognize an unborn child as a person, the graphic depiction would only turn them off more. They will label us as extremists or even “whackos” and may even confirm their erroneous belief that the unborn are not truly “persons”

I think the best way to have a child be recognized as a person is to display their person-like characteristics. A good way to do this is with the use of a 3D ultrasound. Below, is the 3D ultrasound of my daughter, Elaina, and a picture of her after she was born. I think using a tactic such as this will do a much better job of showing people that life is to be protected.

The reasons that we are pro-life is not because abortion is an ugly, violent, barbaric thing. We are pro-life because life begins at conception. Lets focus on showing people *why *we are pro life
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You have a point…the Life Magazine 1980s series on babies in the womb I think did a great service to us. There was the beginning of a change of heart around that time I believe. What we need is more like that, and more of babies earlier and earlier in the first trimester. Actually, showing an intact baby should make the same point as showing one in pieces. That’s why I was so interested in the National Geographic documentary about the life of a baby in the womb, but I guess I wasn’t quick enough and missed the broadcast.

Regarding Fr. Pavone’s remark regarding denial, we should not downplay the role of drinking and drug use among the young. It’s much easier to “get over it” and “get on with your life” when you’re partying every night. Booze dulls the memory and numbs the conscience, and I think it’s no accident that we see so much unprecedented bingeing among the young. Lotta abortions going down so the kids can get on with their important careers and travels etc. Been there done that…
 
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pprimeau1976:
It is not that I think that displaying the raw truth about an abortion is wrong, I just don’t think it’s a good idea. If we are interested in changing people’s hearts, we have to analyze how *they *would react and what would make them have a change of heart. Let’s face it, if a person does not recognize an unborn child as a person, the graphic depiction would only turn them off more. They will label us as extremists or even “whackos” and may even confirm their erroneous belief that the unborn are not truly “persons”
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I agree with this. On ocassion, I have seen trucks with large pictures of aborted babies on the side or people protesting with large graphic signs. I don’t know a whole lot of pro-abortion people, but the ones I do know have never been moved by these displays. To them, it just reinforces their pre-conceived idea that pro-life activists are a lunatic fringe and not to be taken seriously. The signs also seem to make pro-abortion people defensive and in my experience, when people get defensive, they completely shut down and refuse to consider the issue further. I think the graphic signs are counter-productive and that there are far better ways to promote life. JMTC.
 
I have to say I would not tell my kids about it until they started showing signs of wanting to talk to girls or boys. There is no sertain age. It’s when that child can understand how important this is. Knowing me, I could have handled this at about the age 10 to 12. I was not told anything about abortion or sex by my parents. I just learned from the sexually active kids at school. Bad idea. I have heard yes show them the pictures and no it will mess them up. There is a middle ground and it’s all about timing. I would start off with the positive side such as the lovely pictures of the baby, and if that did not seem to strike a cord I would bring out the heavy stuff. Kids have to be armed with this knowledge so they can save theirselves from misery and heartache and guild beyond belief. They could also help another student make the right choice if they are armed with GOD’s love and knowledge of what can come of this.

The sings are necssary to a point but dont’ ever assume “not my child”. “My child is being raised with good Christian morals so my child would never have sex much less have an abortion.” It happens too offten. Be prepared before there is a little person on the way. I told my daughter what I went through and she was twelve. It did upset her but she was glad I told her. She has been in debate class and had to choose a topic. She picked abotion. She opened some eyes to what it was all about.

We will not be able to save all the babies cause there are some hateful people that care only for themselves. But there are the ones like me who just needed anybody to care. Just a little bit of strength. GOD will take care of this with prayer and our working to get rid of murder. We have to do our part.

I have been to counseling for this. It was rough. But It will never go away and I don’t want it to cause then when something doesn’t effect you, you become complacnet. I will keep this burden til GOD calls me home. Hopefully I will find the right ears to hear that this is not the only option. Nor should it be an option!

Dawn
 
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anjel13:
No, there is a big difference between the sin of explicit sexual acts and the sin of abortion. But I think that parents should be honest with their children about the realities of life. That there are bad things out there and there is a difference between right and wrong. I understand that every child is different and the parents know when the right time is to start imparting this information to their children. You are right about that. You are right that there is a difference between it being slammed in their face and maybe scaring them. I will go back on that. But I think I was more referencing to another poster on here who said “I want my kids to be oblivious to this evil for as long as possible” I just don’t agree with that, I believe that most children are more understanding than we like to believe. and keeping your kids purposfully oblivious to what goes on in the world is wrong and dangerous. It’s just like not telling your children to beware of strangers because there are some bad people out there. Just because you don’t want them to be scared. You as a parent have a duty to teach your kids about the real world. So I do go back on my first statement somewhat, it should be up to the parents to impart this knowlege, but what I worry about is that there are a lot of parents that don’t want to go there with their kids, and these are the kids that end up getting the abortions because they don’t realize the reality of what it really is. I guess I kindof have mixed feelings on this issue, in one way I feel that these pictures are necessary because there are a lot of misinformed people out there who if not exposed to the truth will take part in this sin. But at the same time I do feel that small children shouldn’t be exposed to it in this manner, it should be shown to them when they are ready. That’s where the responsiblility of the parent comes in. Sadly however, there are a lot of parents out there that are misinformed themselves.
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Mine was the post you diagreed with - the “I want my children to remain oblivious to this evil for as long as possible” so may I respond…

I DO want my children (specifically my 3 & 6 year olds) to remain oblivous to the very real horror that some Mommies have babies sucked out of their tummies and thrown away in the garbage because they aren’t married to the Daddy and they don’t want to have a baby. And sometimes the Mommies wait too long so the baby has to be pulled out of her tummy and stabbed in the skull. That’s MY choice and if a truck with a giant picture of an aborted baby stops next to us, and they see it, my rights as a mother have been violated. You said children need to be taught about the real world. At what age 2? 3? 6? I disagree- I DON’T need to teach them about the “real world” becaue the real world just comes plowing through our lives -through movies, TV, school, newpapers, magazines, music… we’re BOMBARDED with the “real world” and it’s all I can do to hold it at bay until they get out of kindergarten !!! I’m not teaching about all the evils in this world! Oh, I suppose I could show them pictures of aborted babies, pictures of men having sex with boys, pictures of addicts shooting heroin into their veins. I could do that - that’s the real world we live in, but instead I focus on all that is good and holy & pure. This is what God wants for our lives - how we are all created in His image and that’s why all life is precious, how God yokes Mommies & Daddies together forever and children are the blessing that results. How all that we need for happiness is found through God & His church. That’s the story I choose for MY children for as long as possible. In due time all the other garbage gets dumped into their still too young brains, with or without my consent.
 
Well I am really thinking on this subject. This has been a good discussion. I do think there is a huge difference between exposing children to pictures of sexual acts or homosexuality and disclosing an outrage. The analogy I can draw is the Halocaust. How many of us have seen these photos? How many classroom textbooks have such pictures? I know mine did. How many episodes of The History Channel have extremely graphic footage? In all fairness I realize people can control much of their exposure to the Halocaust photos BUT would we have believed this, would we have vowed: Never again! if we hadn’t seen these pictures? How much more traction could those who deny the Halocaust would have WITHOUT public exposure of these horrible pictures? I think sometimes an activity is so outrageous, so egregious that a shocking portrayal might be necessary.

Again I am not totally sure of my position anymore. I do think though that the photos HAVE saved some babies’ lives and the more exposure we have to the reality of abortion, maybe the less common it will become?

Lisa N
 
Lisa N:
Well I am really thinking on this subject. This has been a good discussion. I do think there is a huge difference between exposing children to pictures of sexual acts or homosexuality and disclosing an outrage. The analogy I can draw is the Halocaust. How many of us have seen these photos? How many classroom textbooks have such pictures? I know mine did. How many episodes of The History Channel have extremely graphic footage? In all fairness I realize people can control much of their exposure to the Halocaust photos BUT would we have believed this, would we have vowed: Never again! if we hadn’t seen these pictures? How much more traction could those who deny the Halocaust would have WITHOUT public exposure of these horrible pictures? I think sometimes an activity is so outrageous, so egregious that a shocking portrayal might be necessary.

Again I am not totally sure of my position anymore. I do think though that the photos HAVE saved some babies’ lives and the more exposure we have to the reality of abortion, maybe the less common it will become?

Lisa N
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Actually the horrifying stuff on tv almost always has a warning. Not only that but it has a content rating. I think the most gory thing we had to see in my school, were pictures of cancers from tobacco chewers. I could have done without that.

For some reason and maybe this is just me, but viewing history photos -ones in black and white- drive a message home to me, but they do not make me physically ill. For some reason a black and white photo is not as bad as seeing the same image in a color photo.
 
Likewise, my only concern is the small children who may see the images if they are displayed in a very public place.

My mother was a pro-life activist when I was young, and I remember having nightmares about the pictures and stories to which I was exposed. I think after hearing my distress my mother realized that she’d exposed me to too much, but I’m still slightly traumatized – or at least sensitized – to those types of photos.

Nevertheless, my position remains that adults in this society need to see the truth. Let’s just try to keep it to adults.
 
surf(name removed by moderator)ure:
Likewise, my only concern is the small children who may see the images if they are displayed in a very public place.
My mother was a pro-life activist when I was young, and I remember having nightmares about the pictures and stories to which I was exposed. I think after hearing my distress my mother realized that she’d exposed me to too much, but I’m still slightly traumatized – or at least sensitized – to those types of photos.
Nevertheless, my position remains that adults in this society need to see the truth. Let’s just try to keep it to adults.
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This is where I stand on this subject,too. And I agree that the pictures of babies–born & unborn–are what can have a really great impact. These are pix that are not going to traumatize anybody’s children.
I respect the opinion that the pix of aborted babies can have a role in stopping someone from having an abortion. I would just point out that there is a difference from a little child that would be frightened, & a child who is old enough that she is ending up at an abortion mill. That is a big difference, even if not in years, then inunderstanding.
As far as Fr Pavone is concerned, if you go to the Priests for Life site, you do not get these pix unless you choose to see them. They are available–most are med school drawings, not photos–but only by clicking onto another page of the site.
There is no doubt that there is aplace for such pix. I just think that we need to let children be children, not mini-adults.In fact, one of the reasons that younger girls end up in abortion mills is precisely because they have not been allowed to be children.
 
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SUNRISEDAWN:
I am not Catholic, but I want to be. I dont’ if I can after what I say here.
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Dawn, your story was so sad, and it also confirmed what I believed to be true - that abortion mills do not care about the women who walk through their doors. please know GOD WILL FORGIVE YOU!!!

Others have sugessted you contact Rachel’s Vineyard. They are a wonderful organization. Here is their website.

rachelsvineyard.org/

Also visit hopeafterabortion.com/

I hope that you will decide to continue your journey toward the Catholic faith. You may find great peace in the sacrameent of reconsiliation. If you care to share with us anymore, I’m curious if you ended up marrying your finance, and if you’re still married to him. I suspect abortion has been the cause of many divorces.

May God bless you and grant you peace. Thank you for sharing your story. :blessyou:
 
carol marie:
Mine was the post you diagreed with - the “I want my children to remain oblivious to this evil for as long as possible” so may I respond…

I DO want my children (specifically my 3 & 6 year olds) to remain oblivous to the very real horror that some Mommies have babies sucked out of their tummies and thrown away in the garbage because they aren’t married to the Daddy and they don’t want to have a baby. And sometimes the Mommies wait too long so the baby has to be pulled out of her tummy and stabbed in the skull. That’s MY choice and if a truck with a giant picture of an aborted baby stops next to us, and they see it, my rights as a mother have been violated. You said children need to be taught about the real world. At what age 2? 3? 6? I disagree- I DON’T need to teach them about the “real world” becaue the real world just comes plowing through our lives -through movies, TV, school, newpapers, magazines, music… we’re BOMBARDED with the “real world” and it’s all I can do to hold it at bay until they get out of kindergarten !!! I’m not teaching about all the evils in this world! Oh, I suppose I could show them pictures of aborted babies, pictures of men having sex with boys, pictures of addicts shooting heroin into their veins. I could do that - that’s the real world we live in, but instead I focus on all that is good and holy & pure. This is what God wants for our lives - how we are all created in His image and that’s why all life is precious, how God yokes Mommies & Daddies together forever and children are the blessing that results. How all that we need for happiness is found through God & His church. That’s the story I choose for MY children for as long as possible. In due time all the other garbage gets dumped into their still too young brains, with or without my consent.
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There is no need for you to be getting so upset about this. How was I supposed to know how old your kids were? Did I say anywhere that I thought we should be teaching our 3-6 year olds this? No, I think you missed the whole other part of my post where I went back on my first post and said it should be up to the parents to decide when to teach this, but it should be taught. You should be honest with your children. They are looking to you for guidence through their lives. When I read your post I was thinking that you didn’t ever want to teach your kids about this issue. Your words weren’t “I want to keep my kids oblivious until there 12” They were “I want to keep my kids oblivious” period. Sorry but I still disagree with that. I’m sorry if I said something that upset you, but I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. My point is that our kids should be taught, but at an age when they are ready to deal with it, not 3 years old. But to never teach them is wrong. Here’s a copy of my post so you can see what I really said.
  • I understand that** every child is different and the parents know when the right time*** is to start imparting this information to their children. You are right about that. You are right that there is a difference between it being slammed in their face and maybe scaring them. I will go back on that…
  • it should be up to the parents to impart this knowlege, but what I worry about is that there are a lot of parents that don’t want to go there with their kids, and these are the kids that end up getting the abortions because they don’t realize the reality of what it really is. I guess I kindof have mixed feelings on this issue, in one way I feel that these pictures are necessary because there are a lot of misinformed people out there who if not exposed to the truth will take part in this sin. But at the same time I do feel that small children shouldn’t be exposed to it in this manner*,** it should be shown to them when they are ready.** That’s where the responsiblility of the parent comes in. Sadly however, there are a lot of parents out there that are misinformed themselves.
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Yes. The heterodox have created comfortable euphemisms for themselves which misrepresent the horror of abortion. People must know about the arm-breaking, brain-aspirating, suffocating of unborn human infants. They must see the attempts of unborn infants to escape the funnels of the aspirators. If people can’t stand the heat, then they shouldn’t be in the fire.

In Toronto pro-lifers line Yonge Street with large placards depicting aborted fetuses. The demonstrators are silent and placid. They simply stand and do not approach people.

I observed the whole process one year, stopping to chat with every single demonstrator and to thank them. You would be surprised to learn how many pedestrians stop to do the same. Not just Catholics, but Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists. God bless them all.
 
carol marie:
In due time all the other garbage gets dumped into their still too young brains, with or without my consent.
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Apply the Doctrine of Double Effect to this situation and you will have your answer.

We do the best we can to protect our children from harm. Sometimes to no avail. The best we can do is to help them to put harm in a context which enables our children to grow stronger. The affirmation of life is the business of the Church. Moreover it is the business of the human community.
 
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anjel13:
There is no need for you to be getting so upset about this. How was I supposed to know how old your kids were? Did I say anywhere that I thought we should be teaching our 3-6 year olds this? No, I think you missed the whole other part of my post where I went back on my first post and said it should be up to the parents to decide when to teach this, but it should be taught. You should be honest with your children. They are looking to you for guidence through their lives. When I read your post I was thinking that you didn’t ever want to teach your kids about this issue. Your words weren’t “I want to keep my kids oblivious until there 12” They were “I want to keep my kids oblivious” period. Sorry but I still disagree with that. I’m sorry if I said something that upset you, but I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. My point is that our kids should be taught, but at an age when they are ready to deal with it, not 3 years old. But to never teach them is wrong. Here’s a copy of my post so you can see what I really said.
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I truly feel our children are subjected to so much of what is wrong & evil & sinful in the world - I want to keep it away from them for as long as possible and that is SO VERY DIFFICULT. But when I read your post again, I saw that I had misunderstood you and that you agreed that it was up to the parents to decide when to introduce the subject of abortion to children.

I’m sorry for jumping on you… forgive me please?
CM
 
carol marie:
I truly feel our children are subjected to so much of what is wrong & evil & sinful in the world - I want to keep it away from them for as long as possible and that is SO VERY DIFFICULT. But when I read your post again, I saw that I had misunderstood you and that you agreed that it was up to the parents to decide when to introduce the subject of abortion to children.

I’m sorry for jumping on you… forgive me please?
CM
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Of course, I can forgive you. Please forgive me for not being more clear with my response! 🙂 I definetly see where you are coming from about this world, I’m scared of what it’s going to be like for my children and their children. I hope and pray that it gets better, but the way things are going now, I really can’t see any light at the end of tunnel.
 
Ani Ibi:
The affirmation of life is the business of the Church. Moreover it is the business of the human community.
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If the affirmation of life is the business of the church, all the more reason to emphasize what is alive rather than what has been destroyed.
 
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anjel13:
… I’m scared of what it’s going to be like for my children and their children. I hope and pray that it gets better, but the way things are going now, I really can’t see any light at the end of tunnel.
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The wonderful thing we need to keep in mind is that we know that ultimately, Good will triumph over evil and our children are souls intended to know and love God. So please do not despair.

Each of the souls lost to abortion have joined with the choirs of angels in heaven. May they each watch over their mother and father, whispering in their ears that they might make better choices in the future.

CARose
 
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pprimeau1976:
If the affirmation of life is the business of the church, all the more reason to emphasize what is alive rather than what has been destroyed.
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I’ve been following this thread without much direct comment on the appropriateness of the graphic signs because I’ve been torn as to the correct answer here. After reading the various posts, I think I’d rather see us focus on the aspects of Life.

I’d like to see posters of the two pictures side by side, like those pprimeau posted above. I think this brings home the reality of the life inside the womb, worthy of a mothers protection.

But I do not condemn those who feel the reality of the murders committed needs to be shown. I recently saw a photo of an aborted fetal arm and hand and I must admit it said more than most anything else I’d seen to date.

I walked in SF at this year’s first annual Walk for Life. We had a large number of protestors on the sidelines taunting us. I think that this might be an excellent audience for the graphic signs interspersed with messages that make it clear that a fetus is a child. Or perhaps one that shows the sonagram, then asks which is the BETTER CHOICE and a photo of a fetus and an infant, followed by I CHOOSE LIFE. This might help drive home the point.

CARose
 
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pprimeau1976:
If the affirmation of life is the business of the church, all the more reason to emphasize what is alive rather than what has been destroyed.
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I do not follow the logic of your above statement.

Also, more accurately reads: “…what has ,is, and will be] been destroyed.”
 
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felra:
I do not follow the logic of your above statement.

Also, more accurately reads: “…what has ,is, and will be] been destroyed.”
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The logic of my statement attacks the root cause of the abortion problem: people do not recognize that life starts at conception. The best way, in my opinion, to counter this is to display how similar life in the womb and life *outside *of the womb is. I think that the although graphic portrayals of aborted fetuses may scare people away from having an abortion, it does very little to change people’s attitudes.
 
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