Anti-abortion protest signs - how far is too far?

[sprout]

Obviously some or most of these quotes are from people who visited the website, but websites don’t save babies, the truth about abortion does. These same women wouldn’t have chosen abortion if they had seen these photos on trucks as they did a computer screen!

Perhaps, or perhaps not. The “indiscriminate” nature of the use of these images is what is so offensive. The “websites” that contain these photos also contain a warning about the graphic nature prior to viewing; a person is viewing them at their own discretion; they are viewing them in private at a time when they are not distracted by traffic; and they are not put in a “defensive” position by having these images thrown at them unexpectedly which makes them more likely to respond in a rational manner.

When you’re dealing with a group of people who consider “choice” to be the ultimate right, then taking away the “choice” of viewing these images is more likely going to inflame rather than convince. It’s going to polarize them and make the prolife movement ingrained in their minds as the slogan says “Anti-Choice”.

 

[vern_humphrey]

It makes me sick to even consider exposing young children to everything life will throw at them. It’s so awful that many children are forced into situations that should not happen to anyone much less to an innocent child who can’t defend himself (including atrocities as abortion).

But the fact that those children were murdered (how else would we have pictures of their bodies) doesn’t make you sick?

 

[seekerz]

Interesting discussion, but the truth is that regardless of which side prevails the result might well be moot in the not too distant future:

However disgusting those graphics appear, people are eventually going to be desensitized to them after repeated exposure; life (and death by the abortionist) will then go on as usual.

If one graphic turns a teenager away from choosing death, that’s wonderful but if repeated exposure to graphic images from early childhood produces a hardened teenager who laughs at them on her way to the clinic, would that be so great?

Impossible, you think? Well have grisly horror flicks turned our kids off blood, gore and guts?

There has to be a better way to turn people from abortion and the best one I know is turning them to God.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Interesting discussion, but the truth is that regardless of which side prevails the result might well be moot in the not too distant future:

However disgusting those graphics appear, people are eventually going to be desensitized to them after repeated exposure; life (and death by the abortionist) will then go on as usual.

If one graphic turns a teenager away from choosing death, that’s wonderful but if repeated exposure to graphic images from early childhood produces a hardened teenager who laughs at them on her way to the clinic, would that be so great?

But in the meantime, they would have saved lives. And if they no longer work, those in the trenches will find another tactic.

 

[mapleoak]

Once again, you are forcing me to have a conversation with my four year old about something that she does not have the experience or knowledge to comprehend.

Truly, if your four year old daughter does not have sufficient knowledge or the ability to comprehend such things, what is the problem? Most four year olds have absolutely no idea what they are looking at when they see such a picture. If asked what it is, your skills as a parent come in to play and you should be able to explain on terms she can understand, limiting or allowing as much information as you deem appropriate.

“Why did the mommy not want her baby?”

“Because she was gang-raped, honey.”

Better off not lying to your children.

So, you see, abortion is that act that you are portraying, but I am left with trying to explain all the actions that preceed the abortion.

Would you rather someone else explain?

Truth? To a four-year old?
Her truth is that she understands mommy and daddy love her and she is a gift from God. Why should I explain the OPPOSITE of that right now?

Explain the opposite of what?

I will say it again, you are showing the product of an immoral act and forcing me to field the questions of the means that led up to that immoral act.

Your are being forced to ‘field’ questions in this area as much as you are ‘forced’ to answer questions when your daughter runs out side and asks why the sky is blue, what is a garbage truck, why are trees so big, etc. etc.

 

[Linnyo]

Maple-oak - it frustrates me and disappoints me that some people think that it’s ok to show morbidly violent images to young children with little or no consideration of the consequences for the children who are here. As I have already said, these pictures are very distressing for little children who should be enjoying the privelege of the inocence of childhood.
I do agree that the pictures can and should be shown to people of childbearing age. This would be equally effective in my opinion since 4-year old girls don’t need abortions

 

[seekerz]

Maple-oak - it frustrates me and disappoints me that some people think that it’s ok to show morbidly violent images to young children with little or no consideration of the consequences for the children who are here. As I have already said, these pictures are very distressing for little children who should be enjoying the privelege of the inocence of childhood.
I do agree that the pictures can and should be shown to people of childbearing age. This would be equally effective in my opinion since 4-year old girls don’t need abortions

I’m with you there. To me it’s a form of violence against innocent young children to place these images in their faces.

Just because abortion is a horrible sin doesn’t mean we can be uncharitable to others in our efforts to protect life. Nowhere in Scripture do we get a pass to be unloving - no matter what our motivation.

And yes, it is unloving to present these images in places where innocents cannot avoid seeing them, if we’re aware that some parents object to this.

Catholics, even good ones are allowed to disagree on certain issues and we should respect the judgment and the rights of parents to do what’s best for their children. If I don’t want my children seeing a billboard of a mangled fetus, they shouldn’t be forced to.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Maple-oak - it frustrates me and disappoints me that some people think that it’s ok to show morbidly violent images to young children with little or no consideration of the consequences for the children who are here. As I have already said, these pictures are very distressing for little children who should be enjoying the privelege of the inocence of childhood.

No. The pictures are distressing to the parents. The children take their cue from the parents’ reaction.

I do agree that the pictures can and should be shown to people of childbearing age. This would be equally effective in my opinion since 4-year old girls don’t need abortions

No – by that time, the value systems are already formed. You need to work on value formation early in life.

 

[Linnyo]

No. The pictures are distressing to the parents. The children take their cue from the parents’ reaction.

No – by that time, the value systems are already formed. You need to work on value formation early in life.

Vern we have had this conversation but you heve only read what you wanted to read

 

[vern_humphrey]

Vern we have had this conversation but you heve only read what you wanted to read

Linnyo, we have had this conversation but you heve only read what you wanted to read.

 

[seekerz]

Why not use positive images instead that parents would love pointing out to their little ones such as blown up pics of babies at each stage of pregnancy?

Wouldn’t it be fun to drive along the highway and be greeted with a billboards of developing fetuses with captions such as: “If your last cycle started ___ weeks ago, you baby looks like this”?

If a mother chose life because she fell in love with the picture of what her baby might look like, that might mean a better start in life for the kid.

 

[proudnifi]

But the fact that those children were murdered (how else would we have pictures of their bodies) doesn’t make you sick?

For your convenience, let’s re-read what I wrote and I will bold a part of it to help answer your inquiry:

“It makes me sick to even consider exposing young children to everything life will throw at them. **It’s so awful that many children are forced into situations that should not happen to anyone much less to an innocent child who can’t defend himself (including atrocities as abortion). **”

So, to be crystal clear - abortion makes me sick. I have already called it an atrocity, something awful, something that should not happen to anyone much less an innocent child.

Just because I find some anti-abortion tactics wrong doesn’t mean I am pro-abortion or “ok” with abortion or “ok” with the choice to have an abortion. I am not “ok” with any of that. I suppose one could fight abortion by kidnapping the children of abortionists and torturing them until the abortionist promises to find another job - that would also sicken me. It might even be effective (to a limited degree - not sure how many people would question the credibility of the prolife movement), but it would still be wrong. We can agree on the goal (end abortion) and disagree on the tactics.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Why not use positive images instead that parents would love pointing out to their little ones such as blown up pics of babies at each stage of pregnancy?

Are you doing that? What’s your success rate?

 

[vern_humphrey]

For your convenience, let’s re-read what I wrote and I will bold a part of it to help answer your inquiry:

“It makes me sick to even consider exposing young children to everything life will throw at them. **It’s so awful that many children are forced into situations that should not happen to anyone much less to an innocent child who can’t defend himself (including atrocities as abortion). **”

So, to be crystal clear - abortion makes me sick. I have already called it an atrocity, something awful, something that should not happen to anyone much less an innocent child.

Now tell us what you’re doing about it. What tactics and methods are** you** using, and what’s your success rate?

 

[seekerz]

Are you doing that? What’s your success rate?

It was just a suggestion.

The point is if we think it’s okay to impose our form of pro-life education on other people’s kids, we may find that we have no valid argument when other (undesirable) groups in society attempt to impose similar graphic education on our children.

My parents and teachers didn’t need graphic images to convince me that abortion was wrong - all they had to do was teach me to know God. Actually, my elders never even discussed abortion with me yet I seem to always have known that it was wrong. If I need the questionable graphics to convince my own kids then maybe I’ve failed as a parent.

 

[vern_humphrey]

It was just a suggestion.

The point is if we think it’s okay to impose our form of pro-life education on other people’s kids, we may find that we have no valid argument when other (undesirable) groups in society attempt to impose similar graphic education on our children.

My parents and teachers didn’t need graphic images to convince me that abortion was wrong - all they had to do was teach me to know God. Actually, my elders never even discussed abortion with me yet I seem to always have known that it was wrong. If I need the questionable graphics to convince my own kids then maybe I’ve failed as a parent.

There’s a big difference between saying, “There must be some better way that **you **could use” and saying, “Here’s the method I used.”

The former contributes nothing. The latter opens the way to a meaningful dialog.

 

[seekerz]

There’s a big difference between saying, “There must be some better way that **you **could use” and saying, “Here’s the method I used.”

The former contributes nothing. The latter opens the way to a meaningful dialog.

Actually, the discussion really is about the extent to which the protest signs should go. Even if I have no better alternative to offer, my opinion is as relevant as yours or anybody else’s.

Even if there existed only one way to protest abortion, if I felt that method was uncharitable to a particular segment of society, it would be my Christian duty to say “It’s wrong to apply this method to those people”.

As I said earlier in this thread, I consider it unloving to subject other people’s children to something their parents object to.

Taking my own child as an example, there are children’s films or books I wouldn’t allow him to be exposed to because of his sensitivity to certain subject matter (even to the point of being unable to sleep). For some Catholic parents those same materials might be perfectly okay for their kids. Were someone to force that material on my kid over my objections, I would consider that unloving and un-Christian.

Incidentally, I believe I have repeatedly pointed out a foolproof tool against abortion: evangelisation. I have just given testimony of how it worked in my own life (and that of all the relatives,classmates, friends and students I’ve been able to keep track of). Presently, I can not point out one acquaintance of mine who sees abortion as a choice, far less a moral one. Therefore, it would seem that this method has a 100% success rate.

 

[Linnyo]

Good points and that is my opinion too. I am very careful what I expose my children to but i do expose them to what they need to be exposed to at an appropriate time so that they have to tools necessary to cope with whatever comes their way where possible. They also know that I am here for them should they ever need help or advice without being condemned by me.

Actually, the discussion really is about the extent to which the protest signs should go. Even if I have no better alternative to offer, my opinion is as relevant as yours or anybody else’s.

Even if there existed only one way to protest abortion, if I felt that method was uncharitable to a particular segment of society, it would be my Christian duty to say “It’s wrong to apply this method to those people”.

As I said earlier in this thread, I consider it unloving to subject other people’s children to something their parents object to.

Taking my own child as an example, there are children’s films or books I wouldn’t allow him to be exposed to because of his sensitivity to certain subject matter (even to the point of being unable to sleep). For some Catholic parents those same materials might be perfectly okay for their kids. Were someone to force that material on my kid over my objections, I would consider that unloving and un-Christian.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Actually, the discussion really is about the extent to which the protest signs should go. Even if I have no better alternative to offer, my opinion is as relevant as yours or anybody else’s.

There’s an old saying about uninformed opinions, you know.

As for the rest, to paraphrase an old Irish ballad, “The critics, they are plentiful. But the workers, they are few.”

Even if there existed only one way to protest abortion, if I felt that method was uncharitable to a particular segment of society, it would be my Christian duty to say “It’s wrong to apply this method to those people”.

Better that children should die, eh?

As I said earlier in this thread, I consider it unloving to subject other people’s children to something their parents object to.

There’s an old saying about uninformed opinions.

Taking my own child as an example, there are children’s films or books I wouldn’t allow him to be exposed to because of his sensitivity to certain subject matter (even to the point of being unable to sleep). For some Catholic parents those same materials might be perfectly okay for their kids. Were someone to force that material on my kid over my objections, I would consider that unloving and un-Christian.

“Forcing” the material on your child? Who did that?

Incidentally, I believe I have repeatedly pointed out a foolproof tool against abortion: evangelisation. I have just given testimony of how it worked in my own life (and that of all the relatives,classmates, friends and students I’ve been able to keep track of). Presently, I can not point out one acquaintance of mine who sees abortion as a choice, far less a moral one. Therefore, it would seem that this method has a 100% success rate.

So how many children have you saved by this method?

 

[proudnifi]

Now tell us what you’re doing about it. What tactics and methods are** you** using, and what’s your success rate?

Once again, the discussion is not about the concept in question, but rather distractions such as accusations that anyone who disagrees is pro-abortion or needs to provide a resume. What I do or don’t do has nothing to do with whether indiscriminate use of graphic abortion pictures is a good thing to do.

Oh - and of course - the ever important success rate. If I say I am less successful than those using indiscriminate tactics, does that make my tactics less right? If so, I fail to see how the ends aren’t being used to justify the means. There are other methods available.