Anti-Catholic Attack

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kyleboerner

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Anti-Catholic attacks have been common in my life, esp. from family and friends.

Anti-Catholic attacks pertaining to the “child abuse scandal” was recently brought up and the typical statements were made; “priests should be married”, etc., etc.

However, the only roadblock that came up for me was when the following statements were made; “the vatican covered it up”, “the vatican moved priests to different churches”, “why didn’t the vatican send the priests to jail”, “the vatican thought counseling would suffice”, and all the other typical statements you hear in mainstream news/media that make the Vatican look like a corrupt politician and give lots of ammunition (more like blanks) to anti-catholics.

Since I ignore most of the mainstream news (given their anti-catholic stance), I was hoping you could help me out and shed some light on this topic. Does anyone have facts, links to accurate news stories, and advice on how to respond to these anti-catholic remarks? How did the Vatican respond, what are the typical false stories and what are the actual true stories?

I know how to respond to the abuse remarks by highlighting that it is a human problem that takes place among families, schools, other denominations/religions, and other groups like the boy scouts; however I come to a wall out of a lack of knowledge on accurate information as to what the Vatican did/did not do in response to the “child abuse scandal”.

Thank you for your time, God Bless,
Kyle
 
kyleboerner said:
Anti-Catholic attacks have been common in my life, esp. from family and friends.
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I’m sorry to hear that, and especially sorry to hear that your family is attacking your Catholic faith.

I don’t think you can really rebut them with facts - If I had to guess, your opponents are using a scandal to buttress their initial view. It’s their misguided view that should be addressed with charity and love.

Rather than meet their anger with a carefully prepared logical defense, perhaps pull them forward toward the church and to God.

Them: The church covered up abusing children!!
You: If that’s the case, then that makes me sad that the men who did that let us down. Could you could join me in saying a prayer for the good governance of the church?
Them: ah… sure… ok…
You: (You say aloud a prayer from the heart about needing God’s love and help in leading his church)
 
I kindly remind them of cases where protestant ministers have done the same thing and they pretty much shut up. LET ME PREFACE THE NEXT FEW COMMENTS BY STATING THAT THE FOLLOWING WAS TOLD TO ME BY A NON-PRACTICING BAPTIST: In the town over next to me, about 10 years ago, one of the local baptist youth ministers was sodomizing his entire class and then videotaping the “get togethers”.

What made it so bad is that he “taught” the 14 year old boys how to start “taking” the 10 year old boys. What made it REAL bad is when the parents had to watch the videotapes as evidence. I wouldn’t wish that on anybody.

Growing up pentecostal, it was quite the norm to hear about a pastor who would run off with either the piano or the organ player. These are but a few examples that I personally know. You never want to turn into a “oh yeah, well I know a pastor…” blah, blah, blah.

Basically the anti-Christ media HATES Catholicism and focus on us more. Peace.
 
kyleboerner said:
However, the only roadblock that came up for me was when the following statements were made; “the vatican covered it up”, “the vatican moved priests to different churches”, “why didn’t the vatican send the priests to jail”, “the vatican thought counseling would suffice”, and all the other typical statements you hear in mainstream news/media that make the Vatican look like a corrupt politician and give lots of ammunition (more like blanks) to anti-catholics.
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The first thing, I think, you should say is that the bishops who have covered up the abuse and knowingly transferred priests who have abused children should be prosecuted. However, to stress, that doesn’t mean that every single bishop in the Church, or every single high ranking official, would know about the severity of the accusations. Perhaps they were honestly ignorant of the abuse. Hindsight is always 20/20.

That being said, to blame “the Vatican” for the abuse of some of the priests would be akin to blaming the the President of the United States for the corruption of some town mayors. The Vatican is the smallest country in the world, and to assume that they know the action of every single person in the Church is ludicrous. The Vatican can’t know about so-and-so bishop transferring so-and-so priest because of whatever reason.

However, that doesn’t protect the bishops or religious superiors - acting as their own leaders, and NOT as “employees” of the Vatican State - who transferred these priests. They have direct connection to these men and to the accusations.
 
kyleboerner said:
I know how to respond to the abuse remarks by highlighting that it is a human problem that takes place among families, schools, other denominations/religions, and other groups like the boy scouts; however I come to a wall out of a lack of knowledge on accurate information as to what the Vatican did/did not do in response to the “child abuse scandal”.
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I can forward you an article addressing this issue.

I can send it by PM or e-mail–let me know which medium you’d prefer.
 
I am confused. Wouldn’t the bishops be obligated to report these atrocities to the Vatican to get direction as to what to do and spiritual insight? I think the answer is, yes, they are/were obligated to report these abuses. So it seems as if we have two conclusions, neither are very good. 1. The Vatican was aware of these atrocities and approved priests being moved, counseled, etc 2. Bishops with these problems were not being accountable to the Vatican. Therefore, both the priests and the bishops are guilty by action (priests) and association (bishops, by allowing the atrocities to continue by not de-frocking the priests or again, getting permission from the Vatican to do so).

This is the main problem with these scandals, the cover up factor, not individuals actions. Of course there will always be individuals who commit crimes from all religions and backgrounds.
Student of the Word
 
benjohnson said:
I’m sorry to hear that, and especially sorry to hear that your family is attacking your Catholic faith.

I don’t think you can really rebut them with facts - If I had to guess, your opponents are using a scandal to buttress their initial view. It’s their misguided view that should be addressed with charity and love.

Rather than meet their anger with a carefully prepared logical defense, perhaps pull them forward toward the church and to God.

Them: The church covered up abusing children!!
You: If that’s the case, then that makes me sad that the men who did that let us down. Could you could join me in saying a prayer for the good governance of the church?
Them: ah… sure… ok…
You: (You say aloud a prayer from the heart about needing God’s love and help in leading his church)
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very good Ben - well said ( I will recall that for next time )
 
kyleboerner said:
Anti-Catholic attacks have been common in my life, esp. from family and friends.
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You are lucky.

I have been attacked for all reasons and am still waiting a heavy attack due to Catholicism.
kyleboerner said:
Anti-Catholic attacks pertaining to the “child abuse scandal” was recently brought up and the typical statements were made; “priests should be married”, etc., etc.
Click to expand...
Most abuse happens in families so the marriage thing wouldn’t change an evil persons intentions.
 
thank you The_Scott, Cinderella and Just Came Back. I appreciate your responses to my post. Thank you for reminding me that other denominations have been guilty of the same thing (or something similar) and that we would not proactively attack their church as a pro-scandal/pro-child-abuse church or denomination.
 
Kyle–I’ll send it over shortly.

Now that I’ve seen your post, I would advise that you do a quick edit to remove your e-mail address from public circulation. It will be possible for spammers and other mischief-makers to find and abuse that datum.
 
Nelka said:
You are lucky.

I have been attacked for all reasons and am still waiting a heavy attack due to Catholicism.

Most abuse happens in families so the marriage thing wouldn’t change an evil persons intentions.
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Thank you Nelka for reconfirming the statistics on families.
 
So many good, valid responses so far.

One thing I did not see mentioned was the evolving view or the psychiatric community in regards to the problem.
Remember that many of these abuses occurred 30 - 40 - 50 years ago.

I can’t quote specific resources (perhaps someone else can) but it is my understanding that there was a time when psychiatry felt this was a treatable and curable condition. As a result when a priest was found to have committed one of this act, he was removed from pastoral ministry and sent for treatment. After a time he was released from treatment “cured” (according to the understanding of the doctors at that time). So there was no reason to keep him from pastoral duties any longer…

Of course this does not apply to every case in every diocese everywhere…But this, along with other considerations can help to explain why there were some serious missteps by those in charge.

Peace
James
 
Cinderella20000 said:
I am confused. Wouldn’t the bishops be obligated to report these atrocities to the Vatican to get direction as to what to do and spiritual insight? I think the answer is, yes, they are/were obligated to report these abuses. So it seems as if we have two conclusions, neither are very good. 1. The Vatican was aware of these atrocities and approved priests being moved, counseled, etc 2. Bishops with these problems were not being accountable to the Vatican. Therefore, both the priests and the bishops are guilty by action (priests) and association (bishops, by allowing the atrocities to continue by not de-frocking the priests or again, getting permission from the Vatican to do so).

This is the main problem with these scandals, the cover up factor, not individuals actions. Of course there will always be individuals who commit crimes from all religions and backgrounds.
Student of the teachers of the word
Click to expand...
 
JRKH said:
So many good, valid responses so far.

One thing I did not see mentioned was the evolving view or the psychiatric community in regards to the problem.
Remember that many of these abuses occurred 30 - 40 - 50 years ago.

I can’t quote specific resources (perhaps someone else can) but it is my understanding that there was a time when psychiatry felt this was a treatable and curable condition. As a result when a priest was found to have committed one of this act, he was removed from pastoral ministry and sent for treatment. After a time he was released from treatment “cured” (according to the understanding of the doctors at that time). So there was no reason to keep him from pastoral duties any longer…

Of course this does not apply to every case in every diocese everywhere…But this, along with other considerations can help to explain why there were some serious missteps by those in charge.
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I’m glad you brought up this element of the scandal–it’s the aspect focused on by the article I mentioned earlier.

If you so wish, I can PM or e-mail it to you as well.
 
Trebor135 said:
I’m glad you brought up this element of the scandal–it’s the aspect focused on by the article I mentioned earlier.

If you so wish, I can PM or e-mail it to you as well.
Click to expand...
Can you post a link so the lurkers can get it too?

Thank you.
 
The priest from whom I received first holy communion (45 years ago) was implicated and guilty of two misconduct charges. These did not happen in our parish, but it was about 10 years later, and did not really surface until the 90’s. Needless to say I was disappointed, mad, shocked, etc. Then when I got over that initial rant, I prayed for his victims, and all similar victims, and their families.

I did not think to pray for those bishops who were involved, whether as part of a cover up (some likely guilty) or as quasi “victims” (use that term lightly) of the prevailing social psychology of that time. This whole episode was just one colossal %*(#^# that had a profoundly negative effect on the Church. Only for the Lord himself “the gates of hell will not prevail” do we have the opportunity to “fix” this as best we can as Catholics. Now I understand why we have to pray for the Pope, the Bishops, and all the Clergy too.

Forgive me, but I was a little taken aback by a comment (paraphrasing) “Well, OTHER religions’ clerics are also guilty” because this is akin to abortion. All of those children were innocent too. It doesn’t make it better (hope that wasn’t the implication). ALL of these poor sinners are deviants that need to be both locked up and somehow supported so that they (like all of us sinners) will be ready for their day before the Lord.

Hopefully any similar cases today are handled properly, including in the court system.

Sorry for the rant.
 
fastenatingguy said:
The priest from whom I received first holy communion (45 years ago) was implicated and guilty of two misconduct charges. These did not happen in our parish, but it was about 10 years later, and did not really surface until the 90’s. Needless to say I was disappointed, mad, shocked, etc. Then when I got over that initial rant, I prayed for his victims, and all similar victims, and their families.

I did not think to pray for those bishops who were involved, whether as part of a cover up (some likely guilty) or as quasi “victims” (use that term lightly) of the prevailing social psychology of that time. This whole episode was just one colossal %*(#^# that had a profoundly negative effect on the Church. Only for the Lord himself “the gates of hell will not prevail” do we have the opportunity to “fix” this as best we can as Catholics. Now I understand why we have to pray for the Pope, the Bishops, and all the Clergy too.

Forgive me, but I was a little taken aback by a comment (paraphrasing) “Well, OTHER religions’ clerics are also guilty” because this is akin to abortion. All of those children were innocent too. It doesn’t make it better (hope that wasn’t the implication). ALL of these poor sinners are deviants that need to be both locked up and somehow supported so that they (like all of us sinners) will be ready for their day before the Lord.

Hopefully any similar cases today are handled properly, including in the court system.

Sorry for the rant.
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  1. No one said that because this happens throughout society, that reduces its seriousness. What we are saying is that the media RARELY reports these incidences, but jumps on anything about the Catholic Church, to an extent that is blatantly anti-Catholic and also distorts the facts. Pedophiles are found wherever there are children, including but not limited to the denominations.
  2. These cases are not happening because there is very intense screening being done in seminaries now. Much more is known about pedophilia and these people have a difficult time hiding within a seminary. At the time, the 1960’s or before, or slightly after, the seminaries were not aware of the problem of homosexuality and/or pedophilia, and so, had little screening for it. I have read several essays stating that the Church was under attack by homosexual activists who joined the priesthood with the sole INTENTION of making the Church look bad. I am not sure if any of that is true, but I do know that a pedophile would not be operating within a seminary today.
 
I thought most people were anti catholic because of their stances on homosexuality, women priests and birth control, those are my only issues with it anyway.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
Can you post a link so the lurkers can get it too?

Thank you.
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Here’s the page I got the article from so many moons ago. It’s only accessible to subscribers now, however.

Here are the key data for the article, in case it can be located elsewhere:

Title: From ‘Sin’ and ‘Compulsion’ to ‘Crime’: Trying to understand the crisis of the past 25 years

Author: Father Rick Malloy, S.J.

Publication: The Priest

Date: 2/1/2011
 
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