Anti-catholic claims (if this is in the wrong place-sorry)

[MaeganFlinchum1]

how are we to respond to anti catholic claims such as :the pope is the anti christ, the latin on his headpeice (sorry i have no idea what thats called) equals 666, the vatican is corrupt etc. and the SDA claims on saturday/sunday worship (that last one is easy)

sorry if this broke any forum rules. dont mean to.

 

[Edward_H]

How to respond? …with a sincere and confident smile, and an offer to buy them a cup of coffee or tea or beer “so we can talk about our children/work/gardening/sports…and maybe some other time we can pull the books out and go through these sensational and superficial claims”

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

First thing I do is make them ask only ONE question at a time. What a lot of anti-Catholics (usually the ones not really interested in discussion anyway) will try to do is throw a whole bunch of accusations at you at once and then sit back and act like they’ve proven the Church wrong. Rather than try to give an answer to all of them and getting overwhelmed, take one at a time and give a good, thorough answer to it before moving to the next one.

If there is a specific question you’re trying to find the best way to answer, feel free to post it in the “Apologetics” forum, as that’s normally where people go with questions on defending the faith. Search through the Catholic Answers main site, too, cause they’ve got lots of great articles and resources on there. However, as long as this thread is already open, I’m sure we can see about getting you some answers.

The pope as the anti-Christ:
I hope they have given you more of an argument than just that statement, since that’s pretty much a baseless accusation in that form.

The 666 claim:
I don’t know that I’ve ever come across that one before. Sounds like something out of a Jack Chick tract, probably by someone that doesn’t know any Latin and is likely wrong about their math.

Vatican is corrupt:
Same as the anti-Christ claim, this is a baseless accusation without any further evidence.

 

[bitznbitez]

The first is to discern if they are truly interested in listening. If not patience and a smile. If so pick one and talk with them.

The one about the popes title being 666, that I heard from birth as an SDA, and it has to do with “Vicarius Filii Dei” in Latin and then adding up the roman numeral values. Of course as an SDA I found it funny when the same logic was applied to our “prophetess” Ellen Gould White, the value 666 was also obtained.

My only point being that the absurdity of one should illustrate the absurdity of the other and to not waste time with utter foolishness.

And for an encore we can demonstrate the Bill Gates III ( founder of Microsoft ) if his name is added up with the ascii values also results in 666

 

[1_with_God]

First thing I do is make them ask only ONE question at a time. What a lot of anti-Catholics (usually the ones not really interested in discussion anyway) will try to do is throw a whole bunch of accusations at you at once and then sit back and act like they’ve proven the Church wrong. Rather than try to give an answer to all of them and getting overwhelmed, take one at a time and give a good, thorough answer to it before moving to the next one.

If there is a specific question you’re trying to find the best way to answer, feel free to post it in the “Apologetics” forum, as that’s normally where people go with questions on defending the faith. Search through the Catholic Answers main site, too, cause they’ve got lots of great articles and resources on there. However, as long as this thread is already open, I’m sure we can see about getting you some answers.

The pope as the anti-Christ:
I hope they have given you more of an argument than just that statement, since that’s pretty much a baseless accusation in that form.

The 666 claim:
I don’t know that I’ve ever come across that one before. Sounds like something out of a Jack Chick tract, probably by someone that doesn’t know any Latin and is likely wrong about their math.

Vatican is corrupt:
Same as the anti-Christ claim, this is a baseless accusation without any further evidence.

I get notices/warnings naming all the above claims, including the 666, from a “friend” who is trying to save my soul. She is a (oops, don’t want to be kicked off the site by naming a church), I’ll just say it is based in Utah.

I love Jesus, yes I do, and His Catholic Church…Amen :yup:

 

[MaeganFlinchum1]

The first is to discern if they are truly interested in listening. If not patience and a smile. If so pick one and talk with them.

The one about the popes title being 666, that I heard from birth as an SDA, and it has to do with “Vicarius Filii Dei” in Latin and then adding up the roman numeral values. Of course as an SDA I found it funny when the same logic was applied to our “prophetess” Ellen Gould White, the value 666 was also obtained.

My only point being that the absurdity of one should illustrate the absurdity of the other and to not waste time with utter foolishness.

And for an encore we can demonstrate the Bill Gates III ( founder of Microsoft ) if his name is added up with the ascii values also results in 666

yes i heard it came from “vicarius filii dei” but the response to that was “well it has always been 666 since the first pope, ellen white was here one time and gates too” how do i respond?

 

[october_baby]

I have experiences in two types of people, one, I have an agnostic aunt who is open to
God, but she doesn’t think about the afterlife, and because of a fundamentalist background
is doubtful toward catholicism but is open minded about about hearing about
catholicism from somebody who is catholic. Second, I have a fundamentalist uncle who
is constantly trying to convert me away from catholicism. And is very prejudiced and close minded toward catholicism.
When my aunt asks a question, I try to answer in a a straightforward and non technical
way. When my uncle raises a question, I try to change the subject because he’s not interested in my answer, just trying to convert me.
Hope this helps.

 

[po18guy]

Get a copy of The Essential Catholic Survival Guide and read up on this fringe Christian group. Their arguments are extremely easy to deconstruct. They are taught a hatred of the Catholic Church and try very hard to lure Catholics to their sect. They remain true Christians even though they share some beliefs with the Jehovah’s Witnesses (who are not Christian). They do have a valid baptism as well as Trinitarian beliefs. However, they have followed false teachers and false prophets to come up with their peculiar beliefs.

 

[pgnat1]

Trust in Jesus, especially when he said

And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

 

[bitznbitez]

yes i heard it came from “vicarius filii dei” but the response to that was “well it has always been 666 since the first pope, ellen white was here one time and gates too” how do i respond?

As a wise man once told me. Never try to use logic and reason to talk someone out of a position they didn’t use logic and reason to arrive at in the first place.

Not trying to be coy just sayin usually reason doesn’t work. I was once as goofy in this regard as anyone you’ll meet. Alexander Hislop the works. Its not easy to explain all that went into getting me from there to here, but a lot of it involved just knowing and being around good Catholic people. I’m still goofy just in a different way now.

The best way is to just be nice, show them a good life, and above all pray, pray, pray.

In my extended family, there have been 3 others swim the tiber. Two because they fell in love with a nice catholic boy/girl and wanted to get married. Another, of southern baptist roots, who I don’t know what brought her to convert.

 

[MaeganFlinchum1]

As a wise man once told me. Never try to use logic and reason to talk someone out of a position they didn’t use logic and reason to arrive at in the first place.

Not trying to be coy just sayin usually reason doesn’t work. I was once as goofy in this regard as anyone you’ll meet. Alexander Hislop the works. Its not easy to explain all that went into getting me from there to here, but a lot of it involved just knowing and being around good Catholic people. I’m still goofy just in a different way now.

The best way is to just be nice, show them a good life, and above all pray, pray, pray.

In my extended family, there have been 3 others swim the tiber. Two because they fell in love with a nice catholic boy/girl and wanted to get married. Another, of southern baptist roots, who I don’t know what brought her to convert.

i need an actual answer

 

[JerryZ]

yes i heard it came from “vicarius filii dei” but the response to that was “well it has always been 666 since the first pope, ellen white was here one time and gates too” how do i respond?

Unfortunately it is not correct

Vicarius Filii Dei (Latin: Vicar or Representative of the Son of God) is a phrase first used in a **forged **medieval Donation of Constantine document to refer to Saint Peter, a leader of the Early Christian Church and regarded as the first Pope by the Catholic Church.[1]
As a forgery it cannot be used to construe that the title is legitimate especially in the light that it has never been used by any Popes.

The correct title is: “Vicarius Christi” or “Vicar Of Jesus Christ”

Also Jimmy Akin has a YouTube video explaining this look for the 666 can’t miss it!

 

[MaeganFlinchum1]

Get a copy of The Essential Catholic Survival Guide and read up on this fringe Christian group. Their arguments are extremely easy to deconstruct. They are taught a hatred of the Catholic Church and try very hard to lure Catholics to their sect. They remain true Christians even though they share some beliefs with the Jehovah’s Witnesses (who are not Christian). They do have a valid baptism as well as Trinitarian beliefs. However, they have followed false teachers and false prophets to come up with their peculiar beliefs.

i will order it tomorrow

 

[RPRPsych]

how are we to respond to anti catholic claims such as :the pope is the anti christ, the latin on his headpeice (sorry i have no idea what thats called) equals 666, the vatican is corrupt etc. and the SDA claims on saturday/sunday worship (that last one is easy)

sorry if this broke any forum rules. dont mean to.

These are all valid questions, that I’ve heard at one time or another.

First: 1 John says that an “Anti-Christ” must deny that the Son of God came in the flesh. 2 Thessalonians gives a detailed description of the Anti-Christ (the “Man of Iniquity”). Compare these quotes with the Popes of the Roman Catholic Church, and should find a huge mismatch between them. This one works well on Sola Scriptura types. If they refuse to accept this and resort to Jack Chick, call them back to Sola Scriptura.

Second: The “phrase” (Vicarius Filii Dei) was never really officially placed on the Holy Father’s headpiece. This was a canard that was enthusiasticallly spread by Protestants such as John Wesley in their scriptural commentaries. Even many Protestants (such as A. T. Robertson, a Scripture scholar and no friend of Catholicism) do not endorse this explanation. Besides this, it’s very easy to find the number 666 if you look. If you take the number of letters of my full name (or Ronald Reagan’s) and divide them by 3, you get 6 (!!) but I’m quite sure neither Mr. Reagan nor I are the Anti-Christ. There’s even a page 666 in most Bibles.

Third: “The Vatican” is an institution. The fact that some people may have been involved in financial irregularities does not mean that the whole of the Vatican is “corrupt”; and those making such allegations are really on shaky ground when you think of the financial shenanigans of the tele-evangelists Ask those making this allegation what they mean by “corrupt”, and ask them to provide you with chapter and verse.

Fourth: The Seventh-Day Adventists follow a false prophet. The Old Testament had some pretty sharp things to say about false prophets (Deuteronomy 13: 1-5) and their teachings. Therefore, their “Saturday / Sunday” blather is both un-Scriptural, and built on a lie. (Though I don’t mind some of those cornflakes!)

 

[bitznbitez]

i need an actual answer

Can I ask how you know the person you are interacting with who is presenting this stuff to you ?

The truth is to the specific followup question you relayed there doesn’t really exist a way to directly respond because the whole question isn’t driven by the numeric values of the latin phrase itself but by a whole host of other assumptions and conclusions they needed to get there to start with

Usually the first issue you have to deal with is the whole question of Saturday vs Sunday as that gets to the root of the whole reason they make the charges they make against the Pope and the Church, and also this is what separates them from all the rest of Protestantism as well. There is also often the issue of whether or not Ellen White was truly a prophet. Once you are past both of those you are left with a world view that is essentially your average protestant but still with a strong bit of anti catholic bias. Then you are left with the usual questions of protestant vs catholic.

The key is they have to be open to hearing and listening what you present and not simply proving it wrong. That requires a heart change and prayer is key. It took four years of prayer but now my spouse, also a former SDA, is swimming the tiber with me, four years ago its not an option at all.

If you have questions as you go along feel free to IM me I’ll be happy to respond.

 

[Edward_H]

“…need actual answers…”

You think someone who poses such ludicrous and childish questions will respond to any sort of answers? Don’t waste God’s time.

 

[bitznbitez]

“…need actual answers…”

You think someone who poses such ludicrous and childish questions will respond to any sort of answers? Don’t waste God’s time.

Edward I understand what you are saying, and that you are generally correct in your assessment. But I’m here today working toward my reception by easter, bringing more than just me along on the journey, and I can assure you I once spouted all this sort of stuff and more. It was how I was raised and taught and thus how I thought.

 

[Edward_H]

Edward I understand what you are saying, and that you are generally correct in your assessment. But I’m here today working toward my reception by easter, bringing more than just me along on the journey, and I can assure you I once spouted all this sort of stuff and more. It was how I was raised and taught and thus how I thought.

I understand. And I am sorry not to be helpful here.

 

[Edward_H]

I have found that the most effective and least volatile form of apostolate and apologetics is through patient sincere generous friendship.

It’s an indirect approach, done at God’s pace. Requires a dose of humility to realize that we may not be the one who brings a convert over the goal line. It’s the Holy Spirit.

There are times for point by point refutation. Catholic.com has some great tracts.

 

[ahs]

i need an actual answer

Here is the actual answer for the “number of the beast” misconception:
catholic.com/quickquestions/is-the-pope-addressed-as-vicar-of-the-son-of-god-in-the-donation-of-constantine

If you go to the Catholic Answers homepage (as mentioned above) and click on “Read” you can do a quick search for all your favorite topics and get very solid Catholic Answers to help you. As Edward H mentions…the best way to help someone see the Truth is in a spirit of genuine friendship. You may never convince him/her of the Truth, but you may prepare that soil bed for someone else to come along and plant a seed or two.