Anti-Catholicism

[Drawmack]

I know, and if they’d stop and listen to us, they’d realize we hold to atleast the same belief you just stated up there. Perhaps many of your buds are more Catholic than you realize? Hey, we can pray for that.

Or maybe, Just maybe, we’re all Christians

 

[Leslie_Polley]

Is that what Jesus said?

In Matt 16 Jesus chose apostles who would have authority in his Church entrusted to them his message and his sacaments and promised to be with them always.

So lets make it real simple. I like real simple.

Do you believe that Jesus had the Power to forgive sin? Yes or no? Do you believe Jesus had the power to breath on the Apostles and give them that power through the Holy Spirit? Yes or No?

There is no way I can convince you anymore then the word of God. In Acts 2 It talks about Pentecost how that power was given. Now Peter cured a cripple man. Do you believe this? Yes or No? Now did Peter cure him or did God? How can you deny the Power of Gods work. How can you believe that Peter could cure a cripple by the Power of the Holy Spirit but not forgive sins? Now go back to your question you just asked me, sounds kinda silly huh? WHo cured the cripple then Peter? Or was it by the Power God gave him? You tell me.

Did you not read Peters words. Do you now hear mine. 3:12 You israelites WHY are you so AMAZED by this and why do you look so INTENTELY AT US as if WE MADE HIM WALK BY OUR OWN POWER OR PEITY.

The he goes on and says repent and be converted so that your sins may be wiped away.

Does this not tie in to the other scripture I gave you the other day. What did Jesus tell them whats easier to tell a man to get up and walk or say your sins are forgiven. Think about that. Peter just did the same exact thing Jesus did. But you deny the power of the Holy Spirit still.

So I don’t think you have got it my Love. No scripture can I give you any clearer then I have.

If you want proof that Peter was filled with the Holy SPirit, and Pentecost is not enough here are the exact words. Acts 4:8 THEN PETER FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPRIIT ANSWERED THEM.

lB Do you believe that Jesus really gave them that power? Are you saying Jesus gave them power to cure but not forgive sins. Even when he said he did. Was that not proof enough?

Sorry, I just had to answer this, or at least respond.
Now watch this…I can answer your questions…To #1. Yes To #2 Yes,But there were alot more people in the upper room than the apostles…We go on…Yes and my grandmother had a crippling lump the size of an orange IMMEDIATLY healed when she was tolch and prayer for by several in our church…I was holding her ankel and felt it leave and she could walk…I know you where not there, but yes we have the same healing power through Christ…God healed the man through Peter. It says they could forgive sins…does that mean I have the power to forgive sins because my grandmother was healed instantly…BY GOD through us. I don’t think anyone denies the power of the Holy Spirit . 3:12 where? what book? Jesus forgave sins and did not ask that anyone be “converted” Not with one healing. It says "THEY ALL were filled with the Holy Spirit. Operitive word is ALL. Everyone in the room. And that is scriptual LOVE. and by the way is that ALL of Matt. 16, or did you forget the verse

 

[Leslie_Polley]

Agreed.

How wonderful it is to see our separated bretheren enlighten themselves to the fullness of truth.

I wpi;d rather be 100% saved than 100% Catholic

 

[Drawmack]

I said nothing about denominations. I said different Churches, And there are theological
differences among them. If there weren’t, they would all be one, such as the Catholic Church

Doctrinal and Theological differences are not the only reason to split. I know of many churches that rose up because the congregation got too large for a single church and so now there’s two – no difference in theology or doctrine.

. As for the Catholic Church, there are no denominations within it.

I know that, if you read what I actually wrote instead of what you would have liked me to have written I was citing that as an example of why the documents you pull your numbers from are not valid documents.

There are different rites which means a different liturgy which may be cultural in origin. Regardless of the rites, they all teach the exact same truths. And believe it or not, we do use and teach from the Bible.

I know that. You have convinced yourself that I know nothing of Catholicism. I am an ex-Catholic. I know a great deal about the Catholic faith. If you’re going to keep insisting that I know nothing of the Catholic faith then please quote one thing I have said about Catholic teaching in this thread that is wrong – QUOTES NOT PARAPHRASES!!!

Also, do you know that the Baptists have split into so many countless Churches that each claims to be a Baptist denomination and not in communion with or associated
with any other Baptist? My sister-in-law is a Baptist and this information comes from
her.

So? Do you know what a red herring is? Do you have any idea how to have a logically cogent discussion with someone who disagrees with you without throwing up logical fallacy after logical fallacy?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Leslie_Polley]

]

I agree with you about Mary; not sure about mass, and don’t know if the first pope was married or not(unless of course you mean Peter)

Many of the Popes where married and or had mistresses. Oh my that goes againt church teaching.

 

[heathernoel]

I’d rather live in the fullness of the Eucharist, being able to reconcile myself to Him…than to be saved through a religion founded by Man.

:juggle::juggle::juggle:

 

[Leslie_Polley]

Doctrinal and Theological differences are not the only reason to split. I know of many churches that rose up because the congregation got too large for a single church and so now there’s two – no difference in theology or doctrine.

I know that, if you read what I actually wrote instead of what you would have liked me to have written I was citing that as an example of why the documents you pull your numbers from are not valid documents.

I know that. You have convinced yourself that I know nothing of Catholicism. I am an ex-Catholic. I know a great deal about the Catholic faith. If you’re going to keep insisting that I know nothing of the Catholic faith then please quote one thing I have said about Catholic teaching in this thread that is wrong – QUOTES NOT PARAPHRASES!!!

So? Do you know what a red herring is? Do you have any idea how to have a logically cogent discussion with someone who disagrees with you without throwing up logical fallacy after logical fallacy?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Drawmack…yea!

 

[Leslie_Polley]

]

I agree with you about Mary; not sure about mass, and don’t know if the first pope was married or not(unless of course you mean Peter)

If you agree with Mary NOT being a mediator, why do you pray to her?

 

[heathernoel]

Many of the Popes where married and or had mistresses. Oh my that goes againt church teaching.

sigh My husband’s a fisherman. I should know when to not take the bait.

The following facts are presented to you, Leslie, though having watched your posts, you aren’t really interested in facts. (Ma’am, with all due respect, your tone has been less than charitable and it makes it hard to actually take your posts seriously).

Yes, there have been married popes.
St. Siricius, the 38th Pope, abandoned his wife and children to become Pope, says Church tradition.
Hadrian
II (Pope 867-872 AD). Resided with wife and daughter while Pope.
Boniface IX (1389-1404)
Felix V (1439-1449)

Widowers when they became Pope:
Felix III (ancestor of 2 other Popes)
Hormisdas (father of Pope Silverus)
Clement IV
St. Peter, the first Pope and “rock” on which the church was founded – he was married. This is mentioned in Mark 1:29-31. A contemporary historian named Clement of Alexandra mentions children
as well as a wife. We don’t know wife’s name, or where she lived when he was serving as Pope.

Pope Gregory IV is the pontiff who declared, in 1074, that priests must be celibate.

That does NOT constitute many.

If you’d like to go there, I can find statistics about pentecostal pastors that would shock you. Like the married pentecostal pastor that urged his girlfriend to have an abortion.

But you’d agree that damning the whole religion because of a few misguided souls would be horrible, right?

Respectfully bowing out because Paul asked us not to enter into worthless debates,
Heather

 

[Drawmack]

If you agree with Mary NOT being a mediator, why do you pray to her?

Leslie,

I think that sometimes you let your anger get the better of you. Relax and take a breath. 1believer is not Catholic and probably doesn’t pray to Mary.

 

[Prieldedi]

Many of the Popes where married and or had mistresses. Oh my that goes againt church teaching.

1 Kings 11:1-3, “King Solomon loved many foreign women besides the daughter of Pharaoh. There were Moabite, Ammonite, Edomite, Sidonian and Hittite women from nations about which Yahweh had commanded the Israelites, “You shall not marry them; nor shall they marry you, lest they win over your heart to their gods.” Solomon, however, imitated these peoples because of his love. He had seven hundred wives of royal birth, and three hundred concubines, and they won his heart.”

A Pope is reviled and Solomon is revered. Isn’t that a double standard?

God bless you

 

[heathernoel]

He had seven hundred wives of royal birth, and three hundred concubines, and they won his heart."

A Pope is reviled and Solomon is revered. Isn’t this a double standard?

God bless you

My husband just coughed. “Why the hell would any man do that to himself?!!” LOL.

I somehow missed that!

Thanks for filling me in!!

Peace Be With You
Heather

 

[Leslie_Polley]

Especially when we believe that the Church is Jesus. And we don’t think he was invisible either But hey:shrug: We can only do the best we can.

You don’t want a conversation, not when you laugh at people with your little chubbies…grow up.

 

[Prieldedi]

My husband just coughed. “Why the hell would any man do that to himself?!!” LOL.

I somehow missed that!

Thanks for filling me in!!

Peace Be With You
Heather

You’re welcome!

God bless you

 

[Leslie_Polley]

My husband just coughed. “Why the hell would any man do that to himself?!!” LOL.

I somehow missed that!

Thanks for filling me in!!

Peace Be With You
Heather

I din’t know you were allowed to swear on this sight…That was the culture at the time. And if you read to the end Soloman says it was all of nothing. If you want, I will give you the exact verse and words…or better yet you look it up…I am sick of doing the work for you…By the way I will bet the man that swore was Catholic…

 

[Leslie_Polley]

1 Kings 11:1-3, “King Solomon loved many foreign women besides the daughter of Pharaoh. There were Moabite, Ammonite, Edomite, Sidonian and Hittite women from nations about which Yahweh had commanded the Israelites, “You shall not marry them; nor shall they marry you, lest they win over your heart to their gods.” Solomon, however, imitated these peoples because of his love. He had seven hundred wives of royal birth, and three hundred concubines, and they won his heart.”

A Pope is reviled and Solomon is revered. Isn’t that a double standard?

God bless you

The "Pope was new Tesiment if you are beginning with Peter, who was married. Soloman was Old Testiment and as king appointed by God could do that. It does not mean that God was pleased with Soloman. Like so many men with power Soloman fell and discovered that all was for nothing. All tht He had accomplished was in vain. As for the Pope, he is suppose to be a shinning example of Christ, isn’t that what you way. He represents Christ one earth. I never knew that Jesus had a mistress, or flings with woman. But His representitives did !!! He also said that it is better to be single , but if you cannot stany away from sex, it it better to marry than burn…(inHell). Now they could have married, but the Church said no, even though Jesus said they could…so if those are the loaws you impose than you must live a celebite life, as did Christ.

As for the standard being double, no it is not.

 

[Leslie_Polley]

sigh My husband’s a fisherman. I should know when to not take the bait.

The following facts are presented to you, Leslie, though having watched your posts, you aren’t really interested in facts. (Ma’am, with all due respect, your tone has been less than charitable and it makes it hard to actually take your posts seriously).

Yes, there have been married popes.
St. Siricius, the 38th Pope, abandoned his wife and children to become Pope, says Church tradition.
Hadrian
II (Pope 867-872 AD). Resided with wife and daughter while Pope.
Boniface IX (1389-1404)
Felix V (1439-1449)

Widowers when they became Pope:
Felix III (ancestor of 2 other Popes)
Hormisdas (father of Pope Silverus)
Clement IV
St. Peter, the first Pope and “rock” on which the church was founded – he was married. This is mentioned in Mark 1:29-31. A contemporary historian named Clement of Alexandra mentions children
as well as a wife. We don’t know wife’s name, or where she lived when he was serving as Pope.

Pope Gregory IV is the pontiff who declared, in 1074, that priests must be celibate.

That does NOT constitute many.

If you’d like to go there, I can find statistics about pentecostal pastors that would shock you. Like the married pentecostal pastor that urged his girlfriend to have an abortion.

But you’d agree that damning the whole religion because of a few misguided souls would be horrible, right?

Respectfully bowing out because Paul asked us not to enter into worthless debates,
Heather

I am so sorry that you find my “tone” not charitable, but almost since I got on here I have been told that I donot know what I am talking about. I have backed up what I have said with scripture. I make LOTS of mistakes, but the Bible does not. That is why I use it. Now it you so not take the seriously I can do nothing about that. As for the Popes that were married, there is nothing wrong with that, and I never said there was. My point is there is no scriptural reason why they can not marry now as well as preists.

You are RIGHT…there have been ministers in MANY of the churches that have cheated on their wives, left there faminlies for other women, stolen, cheated, etc. I have absolutally no problem with agreeing with you . It is one of the biggest disgraces. That is how satan works. Distroy from with in…The only difference is I will admit that about our ministers, and you will not about the Popes, Cardinals, Arch Bishops, Bishops, and Priests. That is exactly why the Bible is my final all in all. The Word is the ONLY thing that is infallible…We all sin an fall short of the Glory of God. You see God is stilll working on me, and I am great with that. He has never called me uncatichezed, a liar, conffused, etc. But you here have. Mea or (maya) culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa We fish too.

 

[heathernoel]

Please don’t make comments about my husband. Yes, he’s Catholic. And he’s having a beer with our favorite Deacon. And?

 

[GeorgeSword]

I don’t think that we deny we have had great corruption and evil from within our Church, among the bishops and priests. Even among the apostles there were weeds among the wheat.

 

[heathernoel]

I am so sorry that you find my “tone” not charitable, but almost since I got on here I have been told that I donot know what I am talking about. I have backed up what I have said with scripture. I make LOTS of mistakes, but the Bible does not. That is why I use it. Now it you so not take the seriously I can do nothing about that. As for the Popes that were married, there is nothing wrong with that, and I never said there was. My point is there is no scriptural reason why they can not marry now as well as preists.

You are RIGHT…there have been ministers in MANY of the churches that have cheated on their wives, left there faminlies for other women, stolen, cheated, etc. I have absolutally no problem with agreeing with you . It is one of the biggest disgraces. That is how satan works. Distroy from with in…The only difference is I will admit that about our ministers, and you will not about the Popes, Cardinals, Arch Bishops, Bishops, and Priests. That is exactly why the Bible is my final all in all. The Word is the ONLY thing that is infallible…We all sin an fall short of the Glory of God. You see God is stilll working on me, and I am great with that. He has never called me uncatichezed, a liar, conffused, etc. But you here have.

You have not asked ME my beliefs, yet you judged my husband. What does that say, ma’am?

Yes, there have been PEOPLE who have done some grievous things. Absolutely. Regrettable. Absolutely.

But they are NOT THE Church.

That would be a great topic for a new thread. But please ask the questions free of judgment. When you put someone on the offensive, you get nothing back but offensive.

Thank you.

Heather