Anti-Catholicism

[1beleevr]

1beleevr… I’m a HE, not a SHE. My nickname is made up of the first syllables of 4 Spanish words. It was given to me by a friend during my university years back in 1973. I live in Central America, and English is my second language.

Thanks for your comments, I truly appreciate them.

God bless you

]

Lo siento, mi hermano en Christo! My bad, your profile does not reveal this fact! Always enjoy corresponding with you! Dios le bendiga!

 

[Javl]

]

Once again, thank you! Even though you are catholic and I am not, we think alike on many issues! And I really try not to bicker about trivial things, but rather find common ground, whereby we(fellow Christians) can build a relationship, rather than a wall. We are all part of Christ’s family, even if some of us are considered to be separated. I like to get out into the community, and witness to and share Christ, with whomever is open to hear the word:thumbsup: For too msny yesrs, I was a “pew sitter,” just pretty much doing my weekly “duty,” with an occasional midweek Bible study thrown in. Then I discovered the joys of serving:W-O-W! to see people’s eyes light up, and tear up, when you extol the wonders of a personal relationship with Christ! But, sadly, until the time of His second coming, there will be division among the believers. And because of pride and stubbornness, neither side will give in, and offer to work together for the sake of the Kingdom, rather than the advancement of individual religions!

Thank you for your response. May I count you, then, among my Christian friends?
God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Javl]

]

Lo siento, mi hermano en Christo! My bad, your profile does not reveal this fact! Always enjoy corresponding with you! Dios le bendiga!

Es tu Espanol? Yo soy Siciliano, pero hablo y comprendo un poquito di Espanol.
Dios le benediga ( Espanol ) : Dio te benedica ( Siciliano ).

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Javl]

Leslie, 1bleever:

Have you ever heard some of these “preachers” on radio and TV the way they bad mouth
Catholicism, and some Protestant denominations? There is one on local radio here that
just about damns all who don’t believe the way he does. I wonder how he can call himself
a Christian.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[1beleevr]

Leslie, 1bleever:

Have you ever heard some of these “preachers” on radio and TV the way they bad mouth
Catholicism, and some Protestant denominations? There is one on local radio here that
just about damns all who don’t believe the way he does. I wonder how he can call himself
a Christian.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

]

When I listen to radio evangelists(which is not often), yes, I do hear some pretty awful things Makes me wonder how these men(or women ) got ordained. This is when the discernment of the Holy Spirit shines through! Was listening to a pastor(nondenominational) while driving cross country one time, who had me in tears, by the time I reached my destination! I really believe that God speaks to me through others! Jesus told us that we would experience what you have experienced! But then He said,“Fear not, for I have overcome the world!”

 

[1beleevr]

Thank you for your response. May I count you, then, among my Christian friends?
God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

]

Yes sir, you may; and as your brother in Christ! I am not perfect, but I will be someday! My Saviour has gone to prepare a place for me, and I will dwell with Him for eternity:thumbsup:

 

[1beleevr]

Es tu Espanol? Yo soy Siciliano, pero hablo y comprendo un poquito di Espanol.
Dios le benediga ( Espanol ) : Dio te benedica ( Siciliano ).

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

]

No; soy Americano! Pero, hablo poquito Espanol con mis hermanos y hermanas en Christo! Muchas gracias para sus palabras! Jesus es mi salvador:thumbsup:

 

[Worthy5]

Yea MOO, it does seem that Catholics get more bashing, but they also make more extreme claims. Like infalability. Thankfully, they’ve given up the claim that no one outside of their church can be saved, but they still claim that wthout their sacrifice (of the Mass) no one may be saved. I think that the claim that riles protestants the most is that they gave us the Bible and thus they claim authority over it. Protestants say that God’s Word must have authority over everyone. Catholics claim that only they can know what God is saying in His Word. Guess He only speaks to Catholics!

You will notice that whenever a Catholic official is asked by the media to comment on a moral issue or whatever, they will always refer to Church teaching as the authority, and never the Bible. That’s because the think their own tradition is the more important, but no one seems to know exactly what that tradition is or is not. So it can be whatever they want it to be and then that is used as a club over you. Protestants only hit you with their Bible.

Come on Kalos, all written language is subject to multiple interpretations, you cannot get a definite divine revelation out of written language.

 

[1beleevr]

kalos: What sacrifice are you speaking of, that occurs at mass? Is it required at every mass, or just occasionally? Doesn’t God prefer obedience over sacrifice?(1 Samuel 15:22)

 

[Prieldedi]

I do not “accept their authority when accept their Bible.” It is not their Bible to begin with. Your information is completely wrong. The Bible did not come together in the third century. The church did not decide which books belonged and which didn’t. You are ignoring 300 years of church history wherein the final canon was developed. The only thing the Catholic Church did was close the canon.

I think it is absurd when Catholics take credit for the canon of Scripture. Are you going to take credit for the four Gospels or the Pauline Corpus? Who decided that these books belong in the canon? Can you name the council that decided that? I reject your church’s authority and your church had no authority over Scripture. Your church did not make Scripture and they did not decide what Scripture is. I accept the canon because I agree with Eusebius’ deductions on how and why certain disputed books were included. But even if those disputed books were not included, I would still have the undisputed books that contain and support the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Canon of Scripture (link)

DEVELOPMENT OF THE NEW TESTAMENT CANON:

AD 51-125:
The New Testament books are written, but during this same period other early Christian writings are produced–for example, the Didache (c. AD 70), 1 Clement (c. 96), the Epistle of Barnabas (c. 100), and the 7 letters of St. Ignatius of Antioch (c. 107).

AD 140:
Marcion, a businessman in Rome, taught that there were two Gods:
Yahweh, the cruel God of the Old Testament, and Abba, the kind father of the New Testament. Marcion eliminated the Old Testament as scriptures and, since he was anti-Semitic, kept from the New Testament only 10 letters of Paul and 2/3 of Luke’s gospel (he deleted references to Jesus’s Jewishness). Marcion’s “New Testament”, the first to be compiled, forced the mainstream Church to decide on a core canon: the four Gospels and Letters of Paul.

AD 200:
The periphery of the canon is not yet determined. According to one list, compiled at Rome c. AD 200 (the Muratorian Canon), the NT consists of the 4 gospels; Acts; 13 letters of Paul (Hebrews is not included); 3 of the 7 General Epistles (1-2 John and Jude); and also the Apocalypse of Peter.

AD 367:
The earliest extant list of the books of the NT, in exactly the number and order in which we presently have them, is written by Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, in his Festal letter # 39 of 367 A.D…

AD 382:
Pope Damasus I, in a letter, listed the New Testament books in their present number and order.

AD 393:
The Council of Hippo affirmed the Canon written by Bishop Athanasius.

AD 397:
The Council of Carthage reaffirmed the Canons of the Old and New Testaments.

AD 1442:
At the Council of Florence, the entire Church recognized the 27 books, though does not declare them unalterable. This council confirmed the Roman Catholic Canon of the Bible which Pope Damasus I had published a thousand years earlier.

AD 1536:
In his translation of the Bible from Greek into German, Luther removed 4 N.T. books (Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation) and placed them in an appendix saying they were less than canonical.

AD 1546:
At the Council of Trent, the Catholic Church reaffirmed once and for all the full list of 27 books as traditionally accepted.

continues…

 

[Prieldedi]

I do not “accept their authority when accept their Bible.” …

Canon of Scripture (link)

The Decree of Pope St. Damasus I, Council of Rome. 382 A.D…

ST. DAMASUS 1, POPE, THE DECREE OF DAMASUS:

It is likewise decreed: Now, indeed, we must treat of the divine Scriptures: what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she must shun.
The list of the Old Testament begins: Genesis, one book; Exodus, one book: Leviticus, one book; Numbers, one book; Deuteronomy, one book; Jesus Nave, one book; of Judges, one book; Ruth, one book; of Kings, four books; Paralipomenon, two books; One Hundred and Fifty Psalms, one book; of Solomon, three books: Proverbs, one book; Ecclesiastes, one book; Canticle of Canticles, one book; likewise, Wisdom, one book; Ecclesiasticus (Sirach), one book; Likewise, the list of the Prophets: Isaiah, one book; Jeremias, one book; along with Cinoth, that is, his Lamentations; Ezechiel, one book; Daniel, one book; Osee, one book; Amos, one book; Micheas, one book; Joel, one book; Abdias, one book; Jonas, one book; Nahum, one book; Habacuc, one book; Sophonias, one book; Aggeus, one book; Zacharias, one book; Malachias, one book. Likewise, the list of histories: Job, one book; Tobias, one book; Esdras, two books; Esther, one book; Judith, one book; of Maccabees, two books.
Likewise, the list of the Scriptures of the New and Eternal Testament, which the holy and Catholic Church receives: of the Gospels, one book according to Matthew, one book according to Mark, one book according to Luke, one book according to John. The Epistles of the Apostle Paul, fourteen in number: one to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, one to the Ephesians, two to the Thessalonians, one to the Galatians, one to the Philippians, one to the Colossians, two to Timothy, one to Titus one to Philemon, one to the Hebrews. Likewise, one book of the Apocalypse of John. And the Acts of the Apostles, one book. Likewise, the canonical Epistles, seven in number: of the Apostle Peter, two Epistles; of the Apostle James, one Epistle; of the Apostle John, one Epistle; of the other John, a Presbyter, two Epistles; of the Apostle Jude the Zealot, one Epistle. Thus concludes the canon of the New Testament.

Likewise it is decreed: After the announcement of all of these prophetic and evangelic or as well as apostolic writings which we have listed above as Scriptures, on which, by the grace of God, the Catholic Church is founded, we have considered that it ought to be announced that although all the Catholic Churches spread abroad through the world comprise but one bridal chamber of Christ, nevertheless, the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other Churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: “You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you shall have bound on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall have loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

I stand corrected. The cannon was established in the Fourth Century (not the Third), but that doesn’t change who did it: it was the Catholic Church.

God bless you

 

[fbl9]

OFF Topic: I wonder how many pastors would be able to put the bible together out of those hundred or so books that where floating around at the time of the canonization of scripture.

 

[Prieldedi]

OFF Topic: I wonder how many pastors would be able to put the bible together out of those hundred or so books that where floating around at the time of the canonization of scripture.

Not one, not all of them. Most Pastors don’t even know these books exist, and those who do reject them. The reason? They are too Catholic!

Canon of Scripture (link)

«For the first 300 years of Christianity, there was no Bible as we know it today. Christians had the Old Testament Septuagint, and literally hundreds of other books from which to choose. The Catholic Church realized early on that she had to decide which of these books were inspired and which ones weren’t. The debates raged between theologians, Bishops, and Church Fathers, for several centuries as to which books were inspired and which ones weren’t. In the meantime, several Church Councils or Synods, were convened to deal with the matter, notably, Rome in 382, Hippo in 393, and Carthage in 397 and 419. The debates sometimes became bitter on both sides. One of the most famous was between St. Jerome, who felt the seven books were not canonical, and St. Augustine who said they were. Protestants who write about this will invariably mention St. Jerome and his opposition, and conveniently omit the support of St. Augustine. I must point out here that Church Father’s writings are not infallible statements, and their arguments are merely reflections of their own private opinions. When some say St. Jerome was against the inclusion of the seven books, they are merely showing his personal opinion of them. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion. However, A PERSONS PRIVATE OPINION DOES NOT CHANGE THE TRUTH AT ALL. There are always three sides to every story, this side, that side, and the side of truth. Whether Jerome’s position, or Augustine’s position was the correct position, it had to be settled by a third party, and that third party was the Catholic Church.

Now the story had a dramatic change, as the Pope stepped in to settle the matter. In concurrence with the opinion of St. Augustine, and being prompted by the Holy Spirit, Pope St. Damasus I, at the Council of Rome in 382, issued a decree appropriately called, “The Decree of Damasus”, in which he listed the canonical books of both the Old and New Testaments. He then asked St. Jerome to use this canon and to write a new Bible translation which included an Old Testament of 46 books, which were all in the Septuagint, and a New Testament of 27 books.
ROME HAD SPOKEN, THE ISSUE WAS SETTLED.

St. Jerome acquiesced under obedience (Hebrews 13:17) and began the translation, and completed it in 404 A.D… In 405, his new Latin Vulgate* was published for the first time.
*The word “vulgate” means, “The common language of the people, or the vernacular”.»

God bless you

 

[Leslie_Polley]

Ah…you won’t mind if we try to win you back then?

Good Luck

 

[Leslie_Polley]

OFF Topic: I wonder how many pastors would be able to put the bible together out of those hundred or so books that where floating around at the time of the canonization of scripture.

Oh I don’t know…how many priests does it take…or lay people…etc.

 

[Leslie_Polley]

OFF Topic: I wonder how many pastors would be able to put the bible together out of those hundred or so books that where floating around at the time of the canonization of scripture.

What is a rainbow in the dark???

 

[Drawmack]

What is a rainbow in the dark???

An awesome metal album from the 80’s by Dio!

 

[mark_a]

What’s your opinion on this matter?

The pope is the big dog. Everyone is gunning for his job. Period.

 

[fbl9]

What is a rainbow in the dark???

Have you ever seen a rainbow in the dark Leslie? Why not?

 

[fbl9]

An awesome metal album from the 80’s by Dio!

If you tried you wouldn’t be able to find the exact same words in my sign on that album
but you know where it came from