Anti-Condom argument same as life jackets?

[dcs6f4]

Hi, the argument is pretty much summed up below. This is popping up on facebook quite a bit… What is your best argument against this Condom analogy?

I should clarify first… I am more interested in the first portion of the analogy. The one that begins with “and if you do find yourself…” is much easier, for me, to see where it falls short. Thanks!

http://integratepr.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/on.jpeg

 

[interestedman]

Hi, the argument is pretty much summed up below. This is popping up on facebook quite a bit… What is your best argument against this Condom analogy?

I should clarify first… I am more interested in the first portion of the analogy. The one that begins with “and if you do find yourself…” is much easier, for me, to see where it falls short. Thanks!

The second part about not saving the person, talking about abortion, is not really valid if you believe that a fetus is a human life. The first part seems reasonably valid though.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

It’s a stupid argument, but it does say something about the creator’s view of sex - that it’s not much different from messing around in a boat.

But just to be clear on why it’s a stupid argument, here is way too much commentary on a rather silly poster:

• We say contraception is wrong because it is morally wrong in itself, not because it doesn’t always work.
• Abstinence before marriage should be encouraged not only because teen pregnancies and the like are hard, but because sex outside marriage is wrong.
• Offering contraception in to people does encourage them not to abstain, and this is primarily a bad thing because not abstaining is wrong and because contraception is wrong - not because contraception isn’t always effective (though that is problematic as well).
• Life jackets are fine because there is nothing immoral about life jackets or about using boats. But if you want to be 100% sure you don’t drown (which most people don’t, the 99% success rate, or whatever it is, of not drowning under normal boating conditions is good enough), then yes you should avoid boats and water.
• Abortion is not life saving. It is killing. It is not wrong because it “spares people from consequences,” it is wrong because it is murder.
• The last point on the poster is just too stupid for words.

 

[superamazingman]

It’s different. There’s nothing intrinsically wrong with going in the water. There’s something intrinsically wrong with “doing it” before marriage. That’s the difference.

 

[JRKH]

I’m not at all sure what the point of this is…Who is it intended to be directed at?..

The best rebuttal in any such argument is simple…Those who are Catholic should not be “sleeping around” and thus have no need of condoms…Those who are not Catholic are worried about Catholic teaching because…uummmm…hmmm… Oh darn…
Remind me…
…Why are non-Catholics so worried about Catholic teaching???

The whole thing is silly…

Peace
James

 

[interestedman]

It’s a stupid argument, but it does say something about the creator’s view of sex - that it’s not much different from messing around in a boat.

But just to be clear on why it’s a stupid argument, here is way too much commentary on a rather silly poster:

• We say contraception is wrong because it is morally wrong in itself, not because it doesn’t always work.
• Abstinence before marriage should be encouraged not only because teen pregnancies and the like are hard, but because sex outside marriage is wrong.
• Offering contraception in to people does encourage them not to abstain, and this is primarily a bad thing because not abstaining is wrong and because contraception is wrong - not because contraception isn’t always effective (though that is problematic as well).
• Life jackets are fine because there is nothing immoral about life jackets or about using boats. But if you want to be 100% sure you don’t drown (which most people don’t, the 99% success rate, or whatever it is, of not drowning under normal boating conditions is good enough), then yes you should avoid boats and water.
• Abortion is not life saving. It is killing. It is not wrong because it “spares people from consequences,” it is wrong because it is murder.

- The last point on the poster is just too stupid for words.

The last point on the poster is a play on congressman Todd Akin’s assertion that if you are “legitimately raped” that your body shuts things down and prevents pregnancy. In so many words said that if you DO get pregnant while being raped, it wasn’t legitimate. That is why it is so stupid.

As for contraception and premarital sex being wrong; that is your opinion. Many people don’t agree with that assertion.

 

[interestedman]

It’s different. There’s nothing intrinsically wrong with going in the water. There’s something intrinsically wrong with “doing it” before marriage. That’s the difference.

And some people think it is intrinsically wrong to eat pork or have a blood transfusion. Not everyone agrees with your morals.

 

[interestedman]

I’m not at all sure what the point of this is…Who is it intended to be directed at?..

The best rebuttal in any such argument is simple…Those who are Catholic should not be “sleeping around” and thus have no need of condoms…Those who are not Catholic are worried about Catholic teaching because…uummmm…hmmm… Oh darn…
Remind me…
…Why are non-Catholics so worried about Catholic teaching???

The whole thing is silly…

Peace
James

non Catholics are worried about Catholic teaching because Catholics want to push their morals and beliefs on others. They don’t like gay marriage, abortion, birth control, etc. because of their religion and are doing things to make sure that these things are banned or limited for EVERYONE, not just Catholics.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

The last point on the poster is a play on congressman Todd Akin’s assertion that if you are “legitimately raped” that your body shuts things down and prevents pregnancy. In so many words said that if you DO get pregnant while being raped, it wasn’t legitimate. That is why it is so stupid.

Yes, I know. But it’s a caricature of what was said and has no value whatsoever (and even what you said is only how people reacted to his words and not his words themselves).

As for contraception and premarital sex being wrong; that is your opinion. Many people don’t agree with that assertion.

Doesn’t matter if others agree or not. It’s still wrong. Morality is not a matter of opinion.

Now understand that I don’t want to ban contraception and the like. But this isn’t because people disagree with my morality so much as because not every moral choice should be coerced in the right direction.

But there is absolutely no way I will support a policy of passing out condoms, because that is wrong. If we want to use the less direct language since that seems to be more PC for some reason, then it could be rephrased like this “I will oppose any initiative I believe to be morally wrong.”

This should be obvious.

 

[JRKH]

non Catholics are worried about Catholic teaching because Catholics want to push their morals and beliefs on others. They don’t like gay marriage, abortion, birth control, etc. because of their religion and are doing things to make sure that these things are banned or limited for EVERYONE, not just Catholics.

And just how are Catholics doing these things??

I’m sure that some think we are doing these things but realistically…Just how are we (supposedly) doing it??

Peace
James

 

[Byrnwiga]

Hi, the argument is pretty much summed up below. This is popping up on facebook quite a bit… What is your best argument against this Condom analogy?

I should clarify first… I am more interested in the first portion of the analogy. The one that begins with “and if you do find yourself…” is much easier, for me, to see where it falls short. Thanks!

An interesting comment I found:

Lifeguard for 6 years here. In my experience, life-preservers and other flotation devices DO encourage risky behavior. Anyone under the age of 13 or so should not be allowed into water deeper than their shoulders unless they obviously know how to swim (you remember the swim tests at your local beach/pool). Kids can easily get caught up in many types of lifejackets and find themselves upside-down in the water. Kids can let go of flotation devices, get pushed away from them, loose their grip, and if they don’t know how to swim, they can get into alot of trouble. AND a message to all parents/guardians. LIFEGUARDS ARE NOT BABYSITTERS. Keep an eye on your kid. We can’t keep our eye on them the entire time they are in the water, and we certainly don’t keep track of your kids if they leave the water.

-Byrnwiga

 

[Elizium23]

Only pro-aborts would consider childbirth and pregnancy the equivalent of a horrific death by drowning.

 

[Corki]

non Catholics are worried about Catholic teaching because Catholics want to push their morals and beliefs on others. They don’t like gay marriage, abortion, birth control, etc. because of their religion and are doing things to make sure that these things are banned or limited for EVERYONE, not just Catholics.

That is just backwards. Until very recently just about everyone in civilized society was against all of these things. Catholics aren’t on a crusade to ban things that have always been allowed. Rather, Catholics and many people of many other faiths (Protestants, Muslims, etc) are resisting the wholesale abandoning of morality which has always been supported by law.

Hi, the argument is pretty much summed up below. This is popping up on facebook quite a bit… What is your best argument against this Condom analogy?

I should clarify first… I am more interested in the first portion of the analogy. The one that begins with “and if you do find yourself…” is much easier, for me, to see where it falls short. Thanks!

The ad uses a false premise. The main reason anyone, at least anyone I know, opposes condom or other contraceptive use, is NOT that it encourages risky behavior. That’s just another sad effect. Contraceptives are part of a whole spectrum of behaviors that pervert the valid God given use of a person’s sexuality.

 

[interestedman]

And just how are Catholics doing these things??

I’m sure that some think we are doing these things but realistically…Just how are we (supposedly) doing it??

Peace
James

Voting against these things.

 

[TrueLight]

If you had a non-Catholic friend who was sleeping around with multiple partners and would not listen to your admonition to stop sleeping around, would you counsel her to at least use condoms?

 

[markeverett49]

And some people think it is intrinsically wrong to eat pork or have a blood transfusion. Not everyone agrees with your morals.

True, but even those who disagree with the Church’s teachings on contraception should realize the difference between a) going for a boat ride and drowning and b) doing the only thing a man and woman can do together that can cause pregnancy and then saying something went wrong because a pregnancy occurred. As the minister in Lake Woebegone said, “If you don’t want to go to Minneapolis, what are you doing on the train?”

 

[Nate13]

non Catholics are worried about Catholic teaching because Catholics want to push their morals and beliefs on others. They don’t like gay marriage, abortion, birth control, etc. because of their religion and are doing things to make sure that these things are banned or limited for EVERYONE, not just Catholics.

No, I really see it as people ignoring reality. I’m sure atheist believe the same thing about me. Why is their view of reality any better than mine? If they are going to ignore natural law that is their own prerogative, but I’m going to continue to believe that we are not blank canvases and the way we are made matters and has innate meanings that should not be ignored. What is occurring is a battle of philosophy not a battle of theology.

What you should be afraid of though is not Catholics, but rather Catholics or anyone else who believes in a large central government. The larger government becomes and the more decisions it makes for people, the more collisions are caused where either one choice or the other has to be made. If I for example believe that its immoral for everyone to contracept, that is really only going to affect you if I also believe the government has the power for try to enforce that. However it seems to me that people we should all really be afraid of are the people who believe they have the power to tell people how large of a soda they are allowed to drink or what kind of light bulb they are allowed to use. A Catholic who believes everyone should be Catholic is just as scary as an atheist who believes everyone who believes in God is stupid if they both believe the government has the power to enforce that on other people.

To address the original question there is a big difference between fornicating and going swimming. If they want to make the analogy work here is how they should set it up. A comparable circumstance would be if you had a guy who was bleeding, can barely kinda swim, and wanted to jump into a 40ft deep pool with a bunch of sharks swimming in it just for the rush. He then turns and asks your for a life jacket. If you give the guy the life jacket at least he won’t drown, but he is still jumping into a pool with sharks while he is bleeding… If you don’t give him the life jacket, maybe that risk on top of the sharks will be enough to convince him not to do it. At least you won’t be on record as having helped him along in making the decision to jump in though.

The original argument fails because it assumes the only bad thing about fornicating is the possibility of getting pregnant.

 

[superamazingman]

Only pro-aborts would consider childbirth and pregnancy the equivalent of a horrific death by drowning.

 

[JRKH]

Voting against these things.

sarcasm alert

Oh my goodness…You mean that exercising my right as a citizen of my country constitutes “pushing my belief” on another…

My - my - how thoroughly undemocratic of me…

end sarcasm (I think…)

This is what floors me about these sorts of arguments. A group marches in favor of changing an existing law and that is seen as fine…A group marches to keep an existing law and that group is accused of forcing their beliefs on others…
(speaking her of the “marriage” issue)…

It’s also interesting to note that Catholics have never been a majority in the United States…So who was “forcing their beliefs” when the prohibition on same sex marriage was placed in force?

Peace
James

 

[Bill_7154]

However it seems to me that people we should all really be afraid of are the people who believe they have the power to tell people how large of a soda they are allowed to drink or what kind of light bulb they are allowed to use. .

I couldn’t agree more. And it is always pitched to the public as a ‘safety issue’ or ‘protecting our freedom’ or some similar manner to provoke fear into our hearts so that we will willingly give our rights away. So that we will willingly give up our ability to choose and make decisions for ourselves and transfer that power into the hands of government.

It’s not left vs. right, it’s Government vs. YOU!