Anti-Condom argument same as life jackets?

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manualman said:
You don’t have a temper? You never struggle with greed? You never are jealous when you perceive that people have it better than you? You’re a better man than me then!
Human frailties are more universal than most people like to think.
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No, I’ve done all of those things. And I don’t consider greed, anger or jealousy to be evil. In fact, sometimes I embrace them.

I have never, though, had the urge to join a gang.
 
manualman said:
Easy there Cujo! Condoms are morally wrong, but using one is not remotely murderous. We’ll do best in public discussions if we don’t blur the issues and make leaps of logic that others might not follow. Maybe you’re asserting that contraception use of any sort leads to a mindset that increases abortion. I’d agree, but it’s another topic from the one at hand. Maybe these guys are abortion boosters too, but the primary message on the poster is about condoms. We’ll be more credible if we limit our responses to addresses the fallicies present ON the poster, not the deeper, more implicit, more easily argued ones.
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I very much agree with you, however I was just sharing in the same view with how frivolous all these arguments are with people who advocate mass murder in one breath and then in another speak of how theyre for Human Rights and for saving little kids with life jackets. Its just a paradoxically absurd argument that the other side doesnt even realize.

Contraception is not murdrt per se, but youre right I was speaking about the bigger picture, that those who advocate contraception also advocate abortion (which they view as a form of contraception).
 
Regular_Atheist said:
No, I’ve done all of those things. And I don’t consider greed, anger or jealousy to be evil. In fact, sometimes I embrace them.

I have never, though, had the urge to join a gang.
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But don’t you see the gap? Some christians like to feel smug in their righteousness because they have no ‘urge’ to have same-sex relations. As if that was impressive! It’s not virtue to resist what you’re not inclined towards. But if you live in an environment where you perceive (true or not) that you have no hope of ever getting out of, you have little chance of achieving an income that covers more than survival basics, you live in a violent neighborhood where you could be robbed or worse at any time, membership in a gang might be a bit more appealing to you no? You say no, but you don’t know if you haven’t been there.

People are just people. The urge to escape crushing poverty and have a chance at enjoying some security and material luxury is a powerful temptation for certain poor people just like sexual temptation is for all of us. Maybe the analogy holds no power for you, but maybe that’s just because you can’t relate to those who have lived in a gang-menaced area? (In fairness, I haven’t lived there either, but I know people who have and am relaying what I’ve learned from them over time).
 
manualman said:
But don’t you see the gap? Some christians like to feel smug in their righteousness because they have no ‘urge’ to have same-sex relations. As if that was impressive! It’s not virtue to resist what you’re not inclined towards. But if you live in an environment where you perceive (true or not) that you have no hope of ever getting out of, you have little chance of achieving an income that covers more than survival basics, you live in a violent neighborhood where you could be robbed or worse at any time, membership in a gang might be a bit more appealing to you no? You say no, but you don’t know if you haven’t been there.

People are just people. The urge to escape crushing poverty and have a chance at enjoying some security and material luxury is a powerful temptation for certain poor people just like sexual temptation is for all of us. Maybe the analogy holds no power for you, but maybe that’s just because you can’t relate to those who have lived in a gang-menaced area? (In fairness, I haven’t lived there either, but I know people who have and am relaying what I’ve learned from them over time).
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Maybe, but sexual urges seem a little different. You admit that it’s not a common temptation for most people, and while sexual urges are fuelled by natural, primal feelings, the urge to join a gang in more of a desire to feel safe rather than anything natural. If you moved the person from a dangerous neighbourhood into a safer neighbourhood, they would no longer need to join a gang, while you wouldn’t be able to do the same thing to someone with sexual urges. I find it hard to explain, but it’s different. Joining a gang seems to be something due to the environment they’re in, while sex seems to be a natural psychological need for humans.
 
CrimsonThorn said:
Contraception is not murdrt per se, but youre right I was speaking about the bigger picture, that those who advocate contraception also advocate abortion (which they view as a form of contraception).
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Nope. I don’t agree with abortion.
 
Regular_Atheist said:
Nope. I don’t agree with abortion.
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99% of liberals do, however. Congrats though you are the exception and a step ahead in thinking for yourself on that issue.

But if youre not for abortion and since I was addressing those who are for it in the bigger picture, then I wasnt referring to you.
 
Regular_Atheist said:
Maybe, but sexual urges seem a little different. You admit that it’s not a common temptation for most people, and while sexual urges are fuelled by natural, primal feelings, the urge to join a gang in more of a desire to feel safe rather than anything natural. If you moved the person from a dangerous neighbourhood into a safer neighbourhood, they would no longer need to join a gang, while you wouldn’t be able to do the same thing to someone with sexual urges. I find it hard to explain, but it’s different. Joining a gang seems to be something due to the environment they’re in, while sex seems to be a natural psychological need for humans.
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Wanting to be in a gang is about fulfilling the natural psychological need for humans to “belong”. As with the sexual desires there are moral and immoral, good and bad ways to go about filling these desires. Fulfilling these desires in a good way starts by first asking why the desires exist in the first place.
 
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