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JHow
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This video is fantastically stupid. I seriously wonder how many page views it had on Sept. 10th. I’m guessing no one watched this. It says more about the creators of the video than it does of anything else.
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Anti-Islam Minister Terry Jones Says He Feels No Responsibility for U.S. Ambassador’s Death
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sedonaman
Guest
This,I appreciate your points and our discussion, but I really think its run its course at this point. You have a tendency to take a situation and then apply an extreme example and say the two are the same. …
is your idea of extreme? If you think it is, then the discussion is over.… How are Muslims going to live in a world that has free societies if they don’t understand that occasionally they are going to hear things that are offensive to them? Not that we should go around and purposely offend them, but are we to die just so they don’t get offended? … If there is any pattern, it is increasing the false alarm rate by increasing the sensitivity. No insults to Islam → no insults to Mohammed → no insults to Muslims → Israel’s existence is an insult to Islam → the entire West is an insult to Islam. Where does it end?
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Boulder257
Guest
Sorry, I must not have made my point clearly. What I meant was not that it was an extreme by itself, but that it was an inapplicable extreme applied to the argument at hand. Your example is the truth today, but I don’t believe it can be used to defend the actions of the pastor who is purposefully stoking the flames.This,
is your idea of extreme? If you think it is, then the discussion is over.
I’m still curious, so I’ll mention it again: Where you going to answer my questions or acknowledge the fact that you misread my posts and the entire topic of the thread to begin with, or are we ignoring that?
I’m truly sorry, but you are just not going to convince me that what this pastor is doing is okay. It may be defended by our constitution, but it’s deplorable and makes him no better than the Islamic Extremists.
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SteveVH
Guest
It doesn’t matter what the pastor is doing. He’s an idiot and most reasonable people in the world recognize that. I just got through watching our Embassador and his three aids come into Andrews Airforce Base in coffins. Yes, I believe that specific event was planned and carried out by a group of terrorists and the stupid movie was nothing more than to draw a crowd of protesters to give them cover.Sorry, I must not have made my point clearly. What I meant was not that it was an extreme by itself, but that it was an inapplicable extreme applied to the argument at hand. Your example is the truth today, but I don’t believe it can be used to defend the actions of the pastor who is purposefully stoking the flames.
I’m still curious, so I’ll mention it again: Where you going to answer my questions or acknowledge the fact that you misread my posts and the entire topic of the thread to begin with, or are we ignoring that?
I’m truly sorry, but you are just not going to convince me that what this pastor is doing is okay. It may be defended by our constitution, but it’s deplorable and makes him no better than the Islamic Extremists.
But here’s the deal. It isn’t just small groups of terrorists that are the problem. The fact that crowds of this magnitude are gathering all over the Muslim world and crying out in absolute hatred of our country, violently attacking our embassies supposedly over this stupid film, gives us all a glimpse into the peaceful world of Islam. This isn’t just small groups of extremists. They are planning a “million man march” in Egypt. Does anyone find it strange that the predictions are for even stronger violence after Friday “prayers”. Can you even imagine someone saying “watch out for those Catholics, escpecially on Sunday after Mass”? I would love to hear from a Muslim and his/her reaction to all of this. I find it all very disturbing and disgusting.
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jwinch2
Guest
Good to hear. Thanks for the clarification.I agree with you complete in your first paragraph. My previous post specifically stated that I believe in free speech and I believe that by constitutional definition he has the right to do what he did. I also went on to describe that I condemn his particular actions. In reality, I think you and I are making the exact same point, I just must not have communicated mine well enough.
One does not need to be in the briefing rooms to know that utilization of indirect fire is not something that a spur of the moment mob can do. Pretty much anyone who is not a complete idiot can pick up a rifle and operate it with a reasonable degree of accuracy. This is not the case with indirect weapons. Their utilization implies training and prior planning.As for the your second paragraph, I cannot speak to that as I am not privelege to the actual intelligence. I have read speculation to this point and read some of the circumstantial hearsay evidence provided by “sources who don’t want to be identified.” However, I wasn’t in the briefing rooms, so I really can’t say.
Combine that with the date that it occurred, the pictures of relatives of the leaders of al qaeda at the protests in Egypt, and the reports of one of the persons killed in Libya who saw one of the police who was supposed to be protecting them taking pictures the day prior to the attacks and things are pretty obvious, briefing or no.
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Boulder257
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You raise a very good point. I have to agree.Good to hear. Thanks for the clarification.
One does not need to be in the briefing rooms to know that utilization of indirect fire is not something that a spur of the moment mob can do. Pretty much anyone who is not a complete idiot can pick up a rifle and operate it with a reasonable degree of accuracy. This is not the case with indirect weapons. Their utilization implies training and prior planning.
Combine that with the date that it occurred, the pictures of relatives of the leaders of al qaeda at the protests in Egypt, and the reports of one of the persons killed in Libya who saw one of the police who was supposed to be protecting them taking pictures the day prior to the attacks and things are pretty obvious, briefing or no.
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John_Paul_Jones
Guest
Clever argument but not one word about the real issue.While I fully support free speech and also believe that the Muslim reaction was not appropriate, certainly his actions should not be defended or supported. Regardless of his civil liberties, what he did and has done is innapropriate at best and hateful at worst. This guy is either ignorant or hateful. Either way he is incredibly dangerous. Not because the Muslims are right in their response, but because his actions do not serve the Kingdom of Heaven.
I really don’t care to argue his rights as defined by the constitution, because I would much rather argue what IS right. I can’t help but think his actions are not those of love, charity, humility, or any other virtue. If I have to consider what I wear because it might cause scandal, surely this man should have to consider how his rhetoric might do the same! I really have to ask myself, how many people are converted by his actions? How many people do you think saw him burn the Muslim holy text and said, “wow, I should become Christian?”
I think you have to ask, who is happier about his actions and the reactions, God or satan…therin lies your answer.
Quite frankly, I don’t even know how anybody, especially a Christian can defend what this man does, even if it is under the guide of free speech.
The Ambassodor, Chris Stevens, lost his life. His death should weigh heavy on our hearts, and our sympaties should be directed to his family and friends. That should be our main concern, not Terry Jones. I have no idea why some people come up with elaborate arguments blaming or condemning Terry Jones and not mention one word about what the mob did or the terrorist did, or why other people come up with elaborate arguments why islam should be treated with kid gloves.
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jwinch2
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Thanks. Unfortunately, the Obama administration continues to make the claim that this was merely a reaction to the video, which has been online since July by the way. Jay Carney, the White House spokesperson, made that claim several times today and stuck to it when pressed by the media for a change.You raise a very good point. I have to agree.
This claim is not remotely logical based upon the information which is publicly available.
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jwinch2
Guest
Lest we mistakenly think that these things that are occurring are somehow out of the norm let us take a look at the things done during this same week in the name of Islam.
9/14/2012: Thailand, 1 dead, 2 injured when Muslim ‘separatists’ shoot a villager in the head in front of his wife and 7-year-old daughter.
9/13/2012: Pakistan, 3 dead including a 2 year old girl, 3 injured when Sunnis shoot a car driven by Shias with automatic weapons.
9/13/2012: Pakistan, 4 dead to include 2 children, 2 injured by being attacked in their home by a Lashkar-e-Islam rocket.
9/12/2012: Somalia. 8 dead, 10 injured by a suicide bombing at a hotel.
9/11/2012: Yemen. 12 dead, 12 injured in the aftermath of a suspected al-Qaeda blast.
9/10/2012: Iraq. 8 dead, 32 injured at a coffee shop are blown by a Mujahid car bomb.
9/10/2012: Syria. 17 dead, 40 injured in a bombing outside a hospital and school
9/10/2012: Afghanistan. 21 dead and 15 wounded when a suicide bomber blows himself up at a demonstration
9/10/2012: Pakistan. 14 dead and 45 wounded by a Sunni car bomb in a Shiite market.
9/10/2012: Iraq. 3 dead and 2 wounded by a Sunni bombing of a Shiite shrine.
9/10/2012: Syria. 20 dead. Video surfaces of the Salman al-Farisi members executing twenty captured prisoners in cold blood while praising Allah.
9/10/2012: India. 1 dead when Islamic terrorists shoot a village head to death.
9/10/2012: Iraq. 2 dead and 3 wounded by Jihadi bombers.
9/10/2012: Mali. Five cousins are alive but deeply wounded by having their hands and feet cut off by Islamists citing the Quran.
And some people, including the President are blaming a video? Please.
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robwar
Guest
exactly!, it was very crude and i have a hard time believing any Christian would act this way on film in some horrible suggestive poses. But what is the bigger wrong is that a bunch of people are killing and rioting over this.This video is fantastically stupid. I seriously wonder how many page views it had on Sept. 10th. I’m guessing no one watched this. It says more about the creators of the video than it does of anything else.
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jwinch2
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weeklystandard.com/blogs/report-never-anti-american-protest-benghazi-only-planned-attack_652761.html
Spontaneous Mr. President? About the video? Hardly.
Spontaneous Mr. President? About the video? Hardly.
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Zenkai
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I live in north Florida and I’m going to convert to Catholicism. To tell you the truth, I haven’t seen too many anti-Catholics here.I would agree with him, but he probably hates Catholics as much as he hates Muslims being a North Florida good ol’ boy. I’m sure if it wasn’t Islam it would be Catholicism in his radar.
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ringil
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Terry Jones just wants some publicity. We is getting what he was after.
Really just like the Westboro Baptist folks.
Really just like the Westboro Baptist folks.
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Candescent
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QUOTE=
Let’s face it, we have an intentional double standard in this country today that is born of malice towards christianity and passive cowardice in regards to Islam.
I think that you put this very well.
Let’s face it, we have an intentional double standard in this country today that is born of malice towards christianity and passive cowardice in regards to Islam.
I think that you put this very well.
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Ion
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I have seen an interview with an coptic priest; what he said is bassicaly that the realy true muslims are violent; when a christian is beaten or stabbed or the church vandalized, they say " that was a mad man" and do nothing. For them is only a matter of power, if they have power they do all the abuse possible, AND LOOKS NATURAL, when they don’t, they play the “human rights tune”, peaceful citizens.
I think he is right. They got in a riot and then they had power…
I think he is right. They got in a riot and then they had power…
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Ion
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How do they dare to tell you what to say in your own country? And to kill (try to kill in other places) the ambassadeur for this?
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jwinch2
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They did not kill anyone because of this movie. It was a pretext, nothing more. The attack was planned and coordinated, not the result of some spontaneous riot that got out of control.How do they dare to tell you what to say in your own country? And to kill (try to kill in other places) the ambassadeur for this?
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robwar
Guest
exactly!They did not kill anyone because of this movie. It was a pretext, nothing more. The attack was planned and coordinated, not the result of some spontaneous riot that got out of control.
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