A
Alexius
Guest
Yes, but I see nothing objectionable to the Orthodox Creed they have posted…It seems very, well…orthodox!
- Status
A
Alexius
Guest
Yes, it is very sad
F
flyersfan1088
Guest
And most of your posts.
There was absolutely no reason to say that RC are uncomfortable with EO’s claim to Apostolic succession. Believe me, we don’t lose sleep over it. It was just a way to introduce the same tired arguements.
Yes, there was baiting by a small handful of people on that forum. But even the legitimate questions about Orthodoxy would be soon reduced to attacks on how the RC “invented” the papacy.
C
Catherine_Grant
Guest
I am going to offer one warning.
Charity will rise and flame throwing over the old Eastern Christianity forum will cease.
The topic of this thread is why Protestants are not as prone to anti-Orthodoxy as they are to anti-Catholicism. Please return to it immediately.
Charity will rise and flame throwing over the old Eastern Christianity forum will cease.
The topic of this thread is why Protestants are not as prone to anti-Orthodoxy as they are to anti-Catholicism. Please return to it immediately.
M
Mannyfit75
Guest
They have a section on Tradition vs. Tradition (Catholic vs. Orthodox). It’s still very much Anti-Orthodox and Anti-Catholic.Yes, but I see nothing objectionable to the Orthodox Creed they have posted…It seems very, well…orthodox!
A
Alexius
Guest
Yes, they certainly are…I just saw their rant on Orthodox and Catholic traditions and our heresy in light of Sola Scriptura
For one reason or another, they include a nice creedal summary of Orthodoxy (IMHO)…
M
Mannyfit75
Guest
It is rear to see Protestants being anti-Orthodox but its out there just as that website in question cited.
M
mark_a
Guest
Here’s an article about Evangelicals converting to Orthodoxy and why.
And here’s one about Luther trying to hook up with the Orthodox.
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1995/9504fea1.asp
And here’s one about Luther trying to hook up with the Orthodox.
http://www.stpaulsirvine.org/html/lutheran.htm
I
Isa_Almisry
Guest
Yes. It’s also popular with Muslims. I’ve told them to look at what it has to say on Islam.
I don’t get how they expect to survive someone reading the “Early Christians speak” as the quotes don’t portray Protestantism.
Interesting, the Anti-Catholic part quotes the Orthodox in support of the common doctrines with the Latins.
The Orthodx section is, well, Orthodox.
A
Alexius
Guest
Yep, I guess Protestants find allies in the Orthodox…until they hear they are in heresy and not part of the Church
I have never known any Protestants who think that Orthodox are their allies. In fact, they accept most of their thought from Rome: Filioque, Schism of the Orthodox, Unleavened Bread, Latin…
It is a fact that the Lutherans of Tubingen corresponded with Patriarch Jeremias II of Constantinople, but they refused to accept the Orthodox, and hence Eastern, faith. They staunchly held to the Filioque over everything else…After four or five years of corresponding, the Patriarch told them to stop writing to him on matters of theology…He asked that they remain friends :dts:
I
Isa_Almisry
Guest
Is this new? It’s as old as the fact of Luther being an ordained Latin priest monk, and doctor of Latin theology.
In the Lutheran confessions in the Book of Concord, they try to piggy back on the Orthodox againt the Latins. To be fair, the Latins did the same to try to prove Lutheranism was an innovation.
If you read the correspondence itself, it spills a lot of ink defending the filioque. I remember reciting the filioque when a Lutheran without any understanding of why we believed it.
The Latins sought their support in the East: the Jesuits got the Calvinist EP Cyril Lucratis strangled, and his schools closed. The Pan Orthodox Synod of Jerusalem, having to address the latest problems from the West, decidedly sided with the Latins on all issues against the Calvinists. So that the Protestants tried it too should come as no suprise.
R
Ridgerunner
Guest
Likely what I am going to say will be misconstrued, but here goes anyway.
Protestantism is what it says it is. It is a “protest”, and it’s a protest against Catholicism; a protest that went all the way to separation. So, the rebellion against Catholicism is essential to the very nature of Protestantism. The same is not true of Orthodoxy, which also has the grace of being utterly unknown to most Protestants I know.
But on the other hand, Protestantism, by and large, is like a fish swimming in the sea and resenting the sea. I don’t mean that in terms of physical size, but in content. If you look at the doctrinal statements of most Protestant churches, one to ten pages will cover most of them. Yet they believe many many things that are not taught by their particular churches. That’s because they are in a culture of which religion is a part, and that part was largely “built” by Catholicism. The “Passion of the Christ” was pervasively Catholic in content. Yet, Protestants thronged to see it. Even Protestant Church groups did, and didn’t notice anything peculiarly Catholic about it because they are so “used” to things that are Catholic in origin that they often don’t even see them. A wonderful experiment in which I have sometimes indulged is to hand a Protestant a “Catechism of the Catholic Church” and then ask him or her what, of its content, he or she disagrees. After looking at it, they don’t disagree with very much, even though their own churches don’t teach even 5% of what’s in it as matters of doctrine. It’s a cultural familiarity. It’s very difficult, as a fish, to know you are in a body of water called the sea.
And yet, since opposition to the papacy is definitional, and since it is a natural human tendency to define oneself by what one is not, it’s very difficult for them to give up. Orthodox don’t have a Pope. But Protestants generally don’t know anything about Mt. Athos either, and might have major problems with Orthodoxy if they did. Lots of Russian and Ukrainian Baptists, though, who are more familiar with Orthodoxy, have big problems with it. But that doesn’t have anything to do with the papacy, of course.
Protestantism is what it says it is. It is a “protest”, and it’s a protest against Catholicism; a protest that went all the way to separation. So, the rebellion against Catholicism is essential to the very nature of Protestantism. The same is not true of Orthodoxy, which also has the grace of being utterly unknown to most Protestants I know.
But on the other hand, Protestantism, by and large, is like a fish swimming in the sea and resenting the sea. I don’t mean that in terms of physical size, but in content. If you look at the doctrinal statements of most Protestant churches, one to ten pages will cover most of them. Yet they believe many many things that are not taught by their particular churches. That’s because they are in a culture of which religion is a part, and that part was largely “built” by Catholicism. The “Passion of the Christ” was pervasively Catholic in content. Yet, Protestants thronged to see it. Even Protestant Church groups did, and didn’t notice anything peculiarly Catholic about it because they are so “used” to things that are Catholic in origin that they often don’t even see them. A wonderful experiment in which I have sometimes indulged is to hand a Protestant a “Catechism of the Catholic Church” and then ask him or her what, of its content, he or she disagrees. After looking at it, they don’t disagree with very much, even though their own churches don’t teach even 5% of what’s in it as matters of doctrine. It’s a cultural familiarity. It’s very difficult, as a fish, to know you are in a body of water called the sea.
And yet, since opposition to the papacy is definitional, and since it is a natural human tendency to define oneself by what one is not, it’s very difficult for them to give up. Orthodox don’t have a Pope. But Protestants generally don’t know anything about Mt. Athos either, and might have major problems with Orthodoxy if they did. Lots of Russian and Ukrainian Baptists, though, who are more familiar with Orthodoxy, have big problems with it. But that doesn’t have anything to do with the papacy, of course.
J
Jaypeeto4
Guest
There has been some Anti-Orthodoxy in the world, but comparitavely not much (unless you count the Turkish military invasions of once-Orthodox territories).
But the Devil’s fury is aimed at destroying the See of Peter and the Churches in communion with Peter’s successor.
That is why the ultra fundies roar against Rome, offering slander after slander, why the secular world roars against the “Roman” Church, the secular world which is thoroughly imbued with the spirit of Satan himself. That is why the forces of evil WITHIN the Roman Catholic Church have for 40 years falsely misused the Second Vatican Council as a pretext for spreading heresies and moral turpitude in the Catholic Church. Destroy the Throne of Peter and the promise of Christ is nullified. The Evil One knows what he is doing.
But the Devil’s fury is aimed at destroying the See of Peter and the Churches in communion with Peter’s successor.
That is why the ultra fundies roar against Rome, offering slander after slander, why the secular world roars against the “Roman” Church, the secular world which is thoroughly imbued with the spirit of Satan himself. That is why the forces of evil WITHIN the Roman Catholic Church have for 40 years falsely misused the Second Vatican Council as a pretext for spreading heresies and moral turpitude in the Catholic Church. Destroy the Throne of Peter and the promise of Christ is nullified. The Evil One knows what he is doing.
M
mark_a
Guest
I, an average Catholic, was completely unaware before I read this article.
M
mark_a
Guest
Everyone disagrees about everything, but they can at least all hate the Pope.
L
lak611
Guest
John MacArthur must be getting tired of all his anti-Catholic sermons because now he has started anti-Orthodox ones.
R
Ridgerunner
Guest
I am not sure I expressed myself well in one respect. It is not the Papacy, exactly, that most Protestants object to, though they may think they do. It is the Magisterium, or teaching authority, which is represented by the Papacy, to which most object; the authority to tell me that X is true and Y is not.
That’s very different from Orthodoxy, which really does object to the Papacy itself, but which very much maintains that the Church (by which they mean Orthodoxy) has the authority to teach.
Not all Protestants believe in “sola scriptura”, but all hold it to some degree. In other words, the “teacher” is the Bible alone. Since the Bible is manifestly subject to interpretation, each man is, then, his own “Pope” in a real, if not acknowledged, sense. Not all Protestants hold it in the same way, it’s more of a continuum. But all share it to some degree or they would not be Protestants at all.
Now, some Protestants might perceive Orthodoxy as less authoritarian than the RCC. In some ways it is, as with divorce and birth control. But in some ways it is greatly more so. If the EO who post in here are in any way representative, their doctrinal “lines in the sand” rival the Grand Canyon. Those Protestants who, in the sense of doctrine or belief hold their notion of “freedom of conscience” sacred, would be severely taken aback to learn how little leeway there is in the beliefs of the various Orthodox faiths.
I’m not trying to start a generalized fight here with either Orthodox or Protestants. I’m simply observing that the degree to which committed Protestants do not attack Orthodoxy likely bears a direct relationship to how little they know about it.
That’s very different from Orthodoxy, which really does object to the Papacy itself, but which very much maintains that the Church (by which they mean Orthodoxy) has the authority to teach.
Not all Protestants believe in “sola scriptura”, but all hold it to some degree. In other words, the “teacher” is the Bible alone. Since the Bible is manifestly subject to interpretation, each man is, then, his own “Pope” in a real, if not acknowledged, sense. Not all Protestants hold it in the same way, it’s more of a continuum. But all share it to some degree or they would not be Protestants at all.
Now, some Protestants might perceive Orthodoxy as less authoritarian than the RCC. In some ways it is, as with divorce and birth control. But in some ways it is greatly more so. If the EO who post in here are in any way representative, their doctrinal “lines in the sand” rival the Grand Canyon. Those Protestants who, in the sense of doctrine or belief hold their notion of “freedom of conscience” sacred, would be severely taken aback to learn how little leeway there is in the beliefs of the various Orthodox faiths.
I’m not trying to start a generalized fight here with either Orthodox or Protestants. I’m simply observing that the degree to which committed Protestants do not attack Orthodoxy likely bears a direct relationship to how little they know about it.
P
Petergee
Guest
Oh come on! Are protestants unable to discover anything about the EOCs for themselves unless a Catholic informs them?
IMHO it is protestants who deliberately avoid any mention of the EOCs in their anti-catholic apologetics. Because to do so would draw attention to the fact that there is another very large group of non-Catholic Christians, even larger than protestantism, which has been separated from Catholicism for much longer and yet whose beliefs and practices are, to protestant eyes, virtually indistinguishable from Catholicism with the exception of rejection of papal authority. This would raise the question why protestants have strayed so far in such a relatively short time from what the vast majority of Christians have always believed and practised, and why they have been far more prone to divisions upon divisions than any other branch of Christianity.
The existence of EOCs is one thing which obviously exposes as a lie, the protestant assertion that (a particular denomination of) protestants are the true Christians in the true church and that Catholicism is simply a weird heretical minority cult invented at some time after the Apostles.
Whereas in fact of course 85% of Christians follow Catholic beliefs and practices or something very close to it, whilst protestants are a small minority with comparatively recently invented beliefs and practices.
A
Alexius
Guest
Wow! If I believed in reincarnation, I would think you were an anti-Catholic crusader…Your language is so vivid and sounds like what I hear on those sites, but the opposite side of course…
L
lak611
Guest
That may be true. I am Latin Catholic, and the suburb I grew up in had no Orthodox or Eastern Catholic Churches. I never even heard of Orthodox or Eastern Catholics until I studied history in high school, and I never met someone from an Orthodox or Eastern Catholic Church until I was in college. I went to a public elementary school and public junior high school where I knew lots of Lutherans, Methodists and Presbyterians, as those denominations had several churches in my neighbourhood. Now I live in the city, where there are many Orthodox and Eastern Catholic Churches. I am also not far from another suburb which has many Orthodox and Eastern Catholic Churches as well.
- Status