Anti-Religious Themes in Fantasy/Horror Genre TV

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So, Handsome Hubby and I watch a lot of genre television. “Supernatural” always seems pretty respectful of religious folks. “Constantine” was, to me, pro-religion.

I get it’s fantasy TV, but I’m a little tired/aggravated at the themes evolving. Even “Grimm” had an episode in which the pastor of a church was a bad Wesen (monster).

Currently on “Game of Thrones” and “Penny Dreadful,” our very favorite current genre shows, I’m seeing a disturbing pattern.

SPOILERS FOR BOTH AHEAD!!!

“Game of Thrones” is a show were were excited about, both having read the books before we met one another. They have the subplot now of the Sparrows, a subgroup of the Faith of the Seven. The Sparrows are religious fanatics who torture and kill folks who are fornicating or otherwise sinning.

“Penny Dreadful” is my show, that I adore. It scratches that horror TV itch, and does that well. The show alludes to Gothic literature and is a lovely monster rally. They have even referenced Matthew Gregory Lewis’ The Monk (1796), an infamous Gothic novel. Now there is a character named “Angelique.” Perhaps a “Dark Shadows” reference? 👍

However, Vanessa is moving toward losing her religion. Her prayers are being invaded by the always-amazing Helen McCrory’s coven leader. She is being stalked by the “nightcomers,” bad witches. Vanessa mentioned to “John Clare,” Adam, that she doesn’t know what her relationship with God is now. This was after a kinda negative mention of the nuns serving the cholera victimes. The cut-wife (Patti Lupone!) gave her a book to open, but only when (obvious foreshadowing) Vanessa is completely done with God and faith. One assumes she will now leave her prayers and crucifix to wayside and take up witchcraft in earnest. The cut-wife herself is a “good witch” now, as Wiccan/Pagan teaching speak of. The crone. The woman with herbs who abort babies, who as she says, “cares for the girls,” when the mean, bad Christians won’t. Of course, there was an allusion to the “Burning Times,” when 50,000 (?) people were executed, overwhelmingly women, convicted of witchcraft. The cutwife, Joan, is of course burnt alive.

So, yes. Hubby, a “recovering Catholic,” at these shows says things like, “And this is why I don’t go to church” and “See? This is why people hate the Catholic Church. This is the stuff they did. No wonder.” When I say, “Well, every group has its skeletons; we don’t do this now,” he says things like, “Because you couldn’t.”

I’m disappointed at the apparent lack of balance in my shows. Yes, it is a television show. Yes, vile things go on. Yes, hubby should not get his life philosophy from a show. Please indulge me a quiet Wednesday morning of worrying about something “light,” rather than abortion, poverty, or family drama.

However, to me this topic is not as superficial as it appears. This is a pernicious, sinister symptom. Pop culture perpetuates the Culture of Death and the paradigm that religious folk are not only misguided, but superstitious and religion is a dangerous cancer that invades society and strikes down people’s happiness. As hubby says, “Religion was invented by those who wanted to keep down and enslave commoners.” Everywhere we turn this idea he got from a professor pervades our culture.

The irony that my interest as a child in Catholicism has its seeds in horror media. (No one calls a Baptist minister for an exorcism!) How moving the end scene is in The Exorcist: Regan runs over and hugs the priest, seemingly not consciously knowing why, but she is joyfully compelled to do so. Our Christs-on-earth, and her spirit senses this. Were Mr. Blatty’s book re-adapted today, that scene would be left out. I can’t seem to go a day without hearing/reading a snide comment about priests and children.

I’m angry that Vanessa Ives is losing her faith on “Penny Dreadful.” I’ve seen a shift in horror media that churches are no longer a sanctuary in which the characters may take refuge. This may seem ridiculous to you all, but, as a horror fan and as someone who loves the Church, this is a huge blow and a source of sadness for me. This is a clear sign we are losing footing. How do we maintain our strength? How much stronger should our evangelism be, in light of this?

Thanks, my friends, for indulging me some Deep Thoughts this morning. This has been troubling me for some time and certainly came to a head with recent events on these shows. I had noticed a shift as well in films. (I haven’t kept up as much with horror literature in recent years.)

Blessings.
 
SPOILERS IN THIS!!! DOCTOR WHO AND SUPERNATURAL

I have to say that my all-time favorite TV show is Doctor Who. Yet many of my friends cried when [spoilers!] Amy and Rory get killed by the Weeping Angel, or more correctly they were sent back in time to live off their space energy, but that’s not important. They wondered why I didn’t also cry. I replied that TV shows, while entertaining, are things I usually try to distance myself to keep from being uprooted from reality. And Supernatural, if I recall correctly, features a gay angel that, from what I’ve heard, leaves God’s service to be with one of the characters, Dean Winchester. I’m sorry if I spoil it for anyone, but when you say
Yes, hubby should not get his life philosophy from a show.

you are quite right when you say this, because I’m pretty sure the writers aren’t Catholic, and throw things about the church in to 1. protest things that the church is unwilling to do (abortion, LGBT, etc) and 2. throw in a bit of extra plot, which they aren’t technically obligated to show in a good light
 
I agree with you completely. Horror is my favorite genre, but it’s lost its soul, so to speak. It’s a genre that’s frequently had an anti-religion bend to it, making faith seem powerless against the evil. The most egregious example of this that comes to mind is in Hellraiser III, when Pinhead mocks the Eucharist. Hellraiser is one of my favorite horror series, but I can’t watch this movie because of how much this scene pisses me off.

The Exorcist is one of the best example of the Faith being given the respect it deserves, it presents strong, faithful men combating Satan’s forces. I’d lay odds that there’s no chance that movie would get made nowadays. Instead, whenever we see the faith it’s either as a hypocritical priest, an irrational hate-monger, or a completely ineffective “holy man.” I honestly think it’s something of a gift that most movies don’t feature religion prominently, at least that way they’re not mocking us or completely misrepresenting us…
 
SPOILERS IN THIS!!! DOCTOR WHO AND SUPERNATURAL

I have to say that my all-time favorite TV show is Doctor Who. Yet many of my friends cried when [spoilers!] Amy and Rory get killed by the Weeping Angel, or more correctly they were sent back in time to live off their space energy, but that’s not important. They wondered why I didn’t also cry. I replied that TV shows, while entertaining, are things I usually try to distance myself to keep from being uprooted from reality. And Supernatural, if I recall correctly, features a gay angel that, from what I’ve heard, leaves God’s service to be with one of the characters, Dean Winchester. I’m sorry if I spoil it for anyone, but when you say. Yes, hubby should not get his life philosophy from a show. you are quite right when you say this, because I’m pretty sure the writers aren’t Catholic, and throw things about the church in to 1. protest things that the church is unwilling to do (abortion, LGBT, etc) and 2. throw in a bit of extra plot, which they aren’t technically obligated to show in a good light
Is Supernatural good? I know it has a huge fan base… also a gif for every occasion… and I’ve been interested in watching it.
 
I used to watch Supernatural and loved it but when they kind of shifted to ONLY dealing with demonic stuff I stopped watching it. I didn’t mind when the demon stuff was every few episodes with ghosts and vampires etc in between, but when it became a full time thing I stopped watching. Demonic stuff freaks me out and watching it makes me feel like I’m inviting it into my home.

But I agree they are fairly respectful of religion. I do remember them bursting into a Church in one episode and apologizing for interrupting Mass while they filled their bottles in a holy water font.
 
You may want to start reading Dean Koontz if you like horror. He is respectful of the Church and does not bash it in his books. I recommend the Odd Thomas series.
 
I’m thinking also of a show like The Walking Dead - truly one of my favorites

SPOILERS:

.

The disappointing aspect is how every person of Faith in that show eventually loses that Faith. I don’t see anything necessarily anti-religious in that theme; rather, the writers seem to be illustrating the very real possibility of that happening. As realistic as the show is, I would counter that the exact opposite would happen in almost every respect: In light of such a horror as the dead coming back to life, you would have widespread instances of new Faith being born, and Faith being restored or strengthened. You would also no doubt have the extreme happening as well: Many Faithful turning into fanatics (aka The Sparrows from Game of Thrones)

Stephen King’s The Stand portrays these concepts fairly well…
 
I’m thinking also of a show like The Walking Dead - truly one of my favorites
SPOILERS!!!

While it is true that the loss of faith is a running theme, and while it is also true that Fr. Gabriel has been portrayed in a less than flattering light, it was my impression that Hershel regained eventually regained his faith. While he was still alive he was the most consistently moral individual in the group, and perhaps the most brave (it’s one thing to fight zombies when you’re a hardened fighter, but trying doing it while missing a leg… or for that matter his actions towards his sick companions is a nice contrast to Carol’s ruthlessness). I would say that while the walking dead hasn’t been glowing in its portrayal of religion, it certainly could be much, much worse.
 
Personally I didn’t like what I saw on Supernatural. I watched a whole season and saw a “good” angel rebel against God. The angels had no relationship with God, they just simply followed orders. The orders they received were arbitrary and they just had to obey without question. Angels harmed humans and burned out eyes. The demons were sometimes portrayed as being more caring, loving, and sympathetic to humans. Satan was portrayed as having equal power with God. I can’t recommend this show.

I’ve really enjoyed The Walking Dead series. From what I’ve seen, it really presents a lot of moral and ethical dilemmas. Clear right and wrong are definitely not always obvious. What I found interesting is that some characters try to make the right decisions based on what is objectively good, while other characters often make decisions based on their own subjective view of what is good. Throughout, these two views create the real intrigue and cause for conflict. I find the moral intrigue to be the most interesting part of the films, and the storyline is certainly entertaining.
 
I think, in general, I would agree with the OP. Any fantasy show will have an obligatory Catholic Church expy which will, inevitably, also feature a Crusade or Inquisition expy. That’s not surprising since for many people the medieval Church decidedly represents religion at its worst. That’s doubtlessly an extremely slanted view, but it’s so widespread and popular that I think that I can hardly blame most authors and/or writers for falling victim to that trope.

What to me is more disturbing/disappointing is the role of faith and religion in horror. I’m hardly a genre aficionado, but I’ve seen enough movies spanning over a long enough period of time to see a definite trend. It seems that throughout the 80’s and 90’s the power of faith in the face of evil was a given. Crucifixes worked, holy water burned, exorcisms were performed both validly AND licitly and all was right in the world. Some time in the post millennium all that began to change. Sacramentals no longer played a substantial role in combating evil; in fact, most films/shows seem to make a point of displaying how decidedly ineffective these are in the face of evil. Exorcism movies are still a thing, but it seems like the only “effective” exorcisms in movie land are being done by “rogue” clerics or else mediums/mystics/etc.

I think the most egregious example, for me remake of “From Dusk 'Till Dawn”. In the original, one of the main characters is Pastor who has lost his faith. Eventually he rediscovers his belief in God, blesses some sacramentals, and let the schlocky action commence. In the television remake, they brought brought the character come back, maybe had him rediscover his faith (I can’t really recall) and made a point that his sacramentals were powerless. I find that particularly funny because his ability to bless things was the sole reason he was there, and without that ability, his character was useless. In there attempt to be edgy and subversive backfired.

And while I’m on the topic, it seems that that another trend in modern horror that features supernatural or spiritual elements is to eschew figures and concepts from Judaism or Christianity for pagan figures or an invented pantheon.

I say is more disturbing than the fantasy jabs because at least those a motivated out of distaste or some kind of emotion. Religion’s place in horror seems to be the product of disinterest or indifference. Much more dangerous, in my opinion.
 
SPOILERS IN THIS!!! DOCTOR WHO AND SUPERNATURAL

I have to say that my all-time favorite TV show is Doctor Who. Yet many of my friends cried when [spoilers!] Amy and Rory get killed by the Weeping Angel, or more correctly they were sent back in time to live off their space energy, but that’s not important. They wondered why I didn’t also cry. I replied that TV shows, while entertaining, are things I usually try to distance myself to keep from being uprooted from reality. And Supernatural, if I recall correctly, features a gay angel that, from what I’ve heard, leaves God’s service to be with one of the characters, Dean Winchester. I’m sorry if I spoil it for anyone, but when you say “Yes, hubby should not get his life philosophy from a show.” you are quite right when you say this, because I’m pretty sure the writers aren’t Catholic, and throw things about the church in to 1. protest things that the church is unwilling to do (abortion, LGBT, etc) and 2. throw in a bit of extra plot, which they aren’t technically obligated to show in a good light
Been a Whovian for 30+ years. Not too keen on it right now…

“Supernatural.” Yeah, the last couple of seasons it’s gotten sketchy. My observantly Jewish mom stopped watching all together when a subplot was that God has abandoned His creation.

The angel, Castiel, isn’t gay and neither is Dean. That’s evidently many fans’ wish. :rolleyes:

ProdglArchitect,

Yes!!! I agree. With everything. I have a love-hate thing with Clive Barker and his work, by the way. Nightbreed is a favorite book and film, an interesting allegory about being marginalized and on the fringe of society.
 
I think, in general, I would agree with the OP. Any fantasy show will have an obligatory Catholic Church expy which will, inevitably, also feature a Crusade or Inquisition expy. That’s not surprising since for many people the medieval Church decidedly represents religion at its worst. That’s doubtlessly an extremely slanted view, but it’s so widespread and popular that I think that I can hardly blame most authors and/or writers for falling victim to that trope.

What to me is more disturbing/disappointing is the role of faith and religion in horror. I’m hardly a genre aficionado, but I’ve seen enough movies spanning over a long enough period of time to see a definite trend. It seems that throughout the 80’s and 90’s the power of faith in the face of evil was a given. Crucifixes worked, holy water burned, exorcisms were performed both validly AND licitly and all was right in the world. Some time in the post millennium all that began to change. Sacramentals no longer played a substantial role in combating evil; in fact, most films/shows seem to make a point of displaying how decidedly ineffective these are in the face of evil. Exorcism movies are still a thing, but it seems like the only “effective” exorcisms in movie land are being done by “rogue” clerics or else mediums/mystics/etc.

I think the most egregious example, for me remake of “From Dusk 'Till Dawn”. In the original, one of the main characters is Pastor who has lost his faith. Eventually he rediscovers his belief in God, blesses some sacramentals, and let the schlocky action commence. In the television remake, they brought brought the character come back, maybe had him rediscover his faith (I can’t really recall) and made a point that his sacramentals were powerless. I find that particularly funny because his ability to bless things was the sole reason he was there, and without that ability, his character was useless. In there attempt to be edgy and subversive backfired.

And while I’m on the topic, it seems that that another trend in modern horror that features supernatural or spiritual elements is to eschew figures and concepts from Judaism or Christianity for pagan figures or an invented pantheon.

I say is more disturbing than the fantasy jabs because at least those a motivated out of distaste or some kind of emotion. Religion’s place in horror seems to be the product of disinterest or indifference. Much more dangerous, in my opinion.
I agree with this entire post. 👍

I am reminded of a scene in Polanski’s wonderful The Fearless Vampire Killer, or Pardon Me, But Your Teeth are in My Neck:

An innkeeper (?) gets turned into a vampire. He goes after a hot young gal he’s been eyeing. She whips out a cross. “Oy vey… Have you got the wrong vampire!”

That scene always tickled my mom, a published writer. She even wrote a vampire story about a rabbi and solves the problem of religion-specific sacramentals and how they work with particular vampires. I think her vampire was immune to crucifixes but responded to Judaic relics, and Stars of David. But, hey, it was a story respectful to faith, Jewish and Christian, and power of the Almighty. 👍 I think the guy even went to one of his friends, a local priest, for help.
 
I think I read somewhere that the Faith Militant in Game of Thrones was based on the (in the author’s words) “medieval Catholic Church.” Martin is a former Catholic who now professes agnosticism. I have to admit, I love Game of Thrones and have started reading the books, but the depiction of religion makes me cringe. Essentially it’s saying the more primitive pagan religions were better (the ‘old gods’ as they call them). Yes, it’s fantasy, but it all influences one’s worldview.
 
Been a Whovian for 30+ years. Not too keen on it right now…

“Supernatural.” Yeah, the last couple of seasons it’s gotten sketchy. My observantly Jewish mom stopped watching all together when a subplot was that God has abandoned His creation.

The angel, Castiel, isn’t gay and neither is Dean. That’s evidently many fans’ wish. :rolleyes: /QUOTE

I became a Whovian about year and a half ago and watched earlier episodes working my way up, but now that you mention being not too keen on it, there has been less plot/moments that make the show great.

I learned from one of my friends about Dean and Castiel having a relationship, guess she is one of those people that ships “Destiel” and thinks it’s going to happen sometime
 
True, there is an anti-Catholic slant in much of Hollywood’s productions.But then again you can find pro-Catholic heroes now and again. Daredevil, which I’m currently watching, is an admitted Catholic and I hear the priest in it is well portrayed – haven’t gotten to that part yet. I really enjoyed Prison Break, and that hero went to confession, though not sure if he was Catholic or not. but he definitely struggled with moral issues.

Catholic heroes are a good bet for drama because the church is one of the few institutions that actually has stable values.

You mentioned Grimm – I really like that series.At first it made me nervous, with all the creatures that remind one of demons, but then it brought to mind Solzhenitsyn’s quote:
'The battleline between good and evil runs through the heart of every man."
You can find parallels between the hero, Nick, and Christ: he’s able to see the real nature of mankind, he fights evil/demonic forces, he’s willing to sacrifice his life for his friends, he has devoted followers . … Of course you have to overlook that Nick is definitely a human sinner, given his living with a girlfriend, tendency to lose his temper, etc.
 
I think I read somewhere that the Faith Militant in Game of Thrones was based on the (in the author’s words) “medieval Catholic Church.” Martin is a former Catholic who now professes agnosticism. I have to admit, I love Game of Thrones and have started reading the books, but the depiction of religion makes me cringe. Essentially it’s saying the more primitive pagan religions were better (the ‘old gods’ as they call them). Yes, it’s fantasy, but it all influences one’s worldview.
No religion, or any faction for that matter, has a moral high ground in Game of Thrones. Worshippers of R’hllor barbecue unbelievers with impunity, and House Greyjoy sinks ships with people on board to offer to the Drowned God.

Beyond the bedroom shenanigans and gruesome executions in GoT is a theme of a bleak Nietzschean power struggle (like when Cersei says, “you win or you die. There is no middle ground”). Nobody’s objectively good or evil, it’s just who has the most money, swords, or power. Don’t like who’s on the throne? Sucks to be you!
 
So, Handsome Hubby and I watch a lot of genre television. “Supernatural” always seems pretty respectful of religious folks. “Constantine” was, to me, pro-religion.

I get it’s fantasy TV, but I’m a little tired/aggravated at the themes evolving. Even “Grimm” had an episode in which the pastor of a church was a bad Wesen (monster).

Currently on “Game of Thrones” and “Penny Dreadful,” our very favorite current genre shows, I’m seeing a disturbing pattern.

SPOILERS FOR BOTH AHEAD!!!

“Game of Thrones” is a show were were excited about, both having read the books before we met one another. They have the subplot now of the Sparrows, a subgroup of the Faith of the Seven. The Sparrows are religious fanatics who torture and kill folks who are fornicating or otherwise sinning.

“Penny Dreadful” is my show, that I adore. It scratches that horror TV itch, and does that well. The show alludes to Gothic literature and is a lovely monster rally. They have even referenced Matthew Gregory Lewis’ The Monk (1796), an infamous Gothic novel. Now there is a character named “Angelique.” Perhaps a “Dark Shadows” reference? 👍

However, Vanessa is moving toward losing her religion. Her prayers are being invaded by the always-amazing Helen McCrory’s coven leader. She is being stalked by the “nightcomers,” bad witches. Vanessa mentioned to “John Clare,” Adam, that she doesn’t know what her relationship with God is now. This was after a kinda negative mention of the nuns serving the cholera victimes. The cut-wife (Patti Lupone!) gave her a book to open, but only when (obvious foreshadowing) Vanessa is completely done with God and faith. One assumes she will now leave her prayers and crucifix to wayside and take up witchcraft in earnest. The cut-wife herself is a “good witch” now, as Wiccan/Pagan teaching speak of. The crone. The woman with herbs who abort babies, who as she says, “cares for the girls,” when the mean, bad Christians won’t. Of course, there was an allusion to the “Burning Times,” when 50,000 (?) people were executed, overwhelmingly women, convicted of witchcraft. The cutwife, Joan, is of course burnt alive.

So, yes. Hubby, a “recovering Catholic,” at these shows says things like, “And this is why I don’t go to church” and “See? This is why people hate the Catholic Church. This is the stuff they did. No wonder.” When I say, “Well, every group has its skeletons; we don’t do this now,” he says things like, “Because you couldn’t.”

I’m disappointed at the apparent lack of balance in my shows. Yes, it is a television show. Yes, vile things go on. Yes, hubby should not get his life philosophy from a show. Please indulge me a quiet Wednesday morning of worrying about something “light,” rather than abortion, poverty, or family drama.

However, to me this topic is not as superficial as it appears. This is a pernicious, sinister symptom. Pop culture perpetuates the Culture of Death and the paradigm that religious folk are not only misguided, but superstitious and religion is a dangerous cancer that invades society and strikes down people’s happiness. As hubby says, “Religion was invented by those who wanted to keep down and enslave commoners.” Everywhere we turn this idea he got from a professor pervades our culture.

The irony that my interest as a child in Catholicism has its seeds in horror media. (No one calls a Baptist minister for an exorcism!) How moving the end scene is in The Exorcist: Regan runs over and hugs the priest, seemingly not consciously knowing why, but she is joyfully compelled to do so. Our Christs-on-earth, and her spirit senses this. Were Mr. Blatty’s book re-adapted today, that scene would be left out. I can’t seem to go a day without hearing/reading a snide comment about priests and children.

I’m angry that Vanessa Ives is losing her faith on “Penny Dreadful.” I’ve seen a shift in horror media that churches are no longer a sanctuary in which the characters may take refuge. This may seem ridiculous to you all, but, as a horror fan and as someone who loves the Church, this is a huge blow and a source of sadness for me. This is a clear sign we are losing footing. How do we maintain our strength? How much stronger should our evangelism be, in light of this?

Thanks, my friends, for indulging me some Deep Thoughts this morning. This has been troubling me for some time and certainly came to a head with recent events on these shows. I had noticed a shift as well in films. (I haven’t kept up as much with horror literature in recent years.)

Blessings.
Not fully in the traditional “fantasy” genre, but have you had a chance to watch the new “Daredevil” series on Netflix? (It’s an adaptation of the Marvel Comics superhero). The (strong, moral) hero is openly Catholic and identifies himself as such, goes to Confession, and has a sympathetically-depicted priest as a moral sounding-board. Plus, it’s a really good series with good performances (kind of like The Wire with a superhero). The star, Charlie Cox, is also a practicing Catholic who played the founder of Opus Dei in “There Be Dragons.” You need to have a Netflix streaming subscription to see it, though.
 
Possible spoilers for GoT

Love Game of Thrones, and read all the books. The new Sparrows storyline makes me cringe though. I actually got into a discussion with an agnostic friend over if the Pope would interrupt his prayers to accept an audience with the president of the U.S. (comparing it to the High Sparrow’s not being willing to be interrupted in prayer, even by King Tommen). My husband got very upset and told us to knock it off.
 
True, there is an anti-Catholic slant in much of Hollywood’s productions.But then again you can find pro-Catholic heroes now and again. Daredevil, which I’m currently watching, is an admitted Catholic and I hear the priest in it is well portrayed – haven’t gotten to that part yet. I really enjoyed Prison Break, and that hero went to confession, though not sure if he was Catholic or not. but he definitely struggled with moral issues.

Catholic heroes are a good bet for drama because the church is one of the few institutions that actually has stable values.

You mentioned Grimm – I really like that series.At first it made me nervous, with all the creatures that remind one of demons, but then it brought to mind Solzhenitsyn’s quote:
'The battleline between good and evil runs through the heart of every man."
You can find parallels between the hero, Nick, and Christ: he’s able to see the real nature of mankind, he fights evil/demonic forces, he’s willing to sacrifice his life for his friends, he has devoted followers . … Of course you have to overlook that Nick is definitely a human sinner, given his living with a girlfriend, tendency to lose his temper, etc.
Daredevil… hmm, sounds good, I might start watching it this summer
 
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