Anxiety at the Ordinary Form

[Contra_Mundum_1]

As for as the case of the priestly office of the baptized/orans goes, I think that maybe someone stepped into church on a whim, had no idea as to what was expected of them…then animal instincts kicked in monkey see, monkey do, imitated the priest in the oran position, other confused parishioners caught a gaze and assumed it was so crazy it must’ve been right…joined in and it caught on. Then the whole WWJD question finally had an answer and that answer is ORANS POSITION!

You are funny A good and probable explanation of how things happen these days imo.

As for TLM splitting the church: I doubt it. SSPX didn’t cause it to happen and the way things are going is quite different now. Younger people are exploring the traditions and eventually they will take over when the oldies who have no use for Latin dissappear from the stage. I’m generalising and simplyfing of course but I see evidence in what has happened in the last 5 years. Who could have predicted it?

 

[PJM]

=elizabeth_anne;8031941]Pardon my ignorance, and please understand that this is an honest question- I would appreciate it if the answers to this might be polite.

Is it really “illicit” for the congregation to hold their hands in the “orans” position during the Our Father? Do the rubrics actually say not to? It helps me to make gestures like this and like gently beating my breast during the Kyrie. I appreciate being able to use my body in ways that our discreet to enter into the prayer. I seriously doubt anyone should be watching me closely enough to be bothered by it.

It’s not in the rubics, BUT no sin is involved with those desiring to to so. It is a VERY minor point.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[TrueLight]

Pardon my ignorance, and please understand that this is an honest question- I would appreciate it if the answers to this might be polite.

Is it really “illicit” for the congregation to hold their hands in the “orans” position during the Our Father? Do the rubrics actually say not to? It helps me to make gestures like this and like gently beating my breast during the Kyrie. I appreciate being able to use my body in ways that our discreet to enter into the prayer. I seriously doubt anyone should be watching me closely enough to be bothered by it.

I haven’t seen anyone beating his breast during the Kyrie, though. Did you mean during the “mea culpa” of the confiteor?

Through my fault, through my fault, through my own grievous fault.

 

[elizabeth_anne_1]

I haven’t seen anyone beating his breast during the Kyrie, though. Did you mean during the “mea culpa” of the confiteor?

LOL! This is an example of why I should not be on an online forum when I am too tired. I meant during the Agnus Dei…not sure if it is the same in TLM. I would be likely to, and very well might, gently beat my breast during the the penitential rite of the OF when the new updates come out.

What I do now is the “orans” position during the Our Father, and gently and discreetly beat my breast during the “Lamb of God.”

Peace.

 

[ProVobis]

Heaven is hardly a quiet place where the angels and saints are constantly singing praises to God. Read Revelations

If this is true, perhaps we’ll be equipped with eardrums which will appreciate those sounds. Until then, I’ll seek some peace and quiet somewhere. Nothing wrong with meditation and low-toned prayer; we have enough people with hearing problems because of being subjected to jet noises, loud speakers and the like.

Thanks for the tip, though.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

I was 40 years old, when I was first in a disco (nightclub for dancing). The vibrating light, the almost unbearable decibels made me anxious.

The modern suburban churches and masses resemble me this set. It may be acceptable for those who feel themselves comfortable in a disco, but for the others this is unnatural.

The problem is not with the Form itself, but with the distorted form.

A disco? Seriously? I have NEVER been to an OF Mass that even came close to resembling a disco! Even the later Mass (which I don’t really like because there is too much talking before Mass) doesn’t even come close. Nor does it’s sound even sound 1/10 as loud as a Protestant service. A disco? isn’t that just a tiny bit melodramatic?

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Reverence is at an all time low and the priest turns Mass into a joke, especially when the deacon is up there with him and they start telling jokes off each other. I felt like I was having a heart attack when the priest invited a kid wearing a Canuck’s jersey up to the Sanctuary steps so everyone could laugh at him for being a Canuck’s fan, and last week I knelt down and cried after Mass because the priest actually instructed the families wearing Bruins jerseys by name to stand up so we could all “acknowledge their Stanley Cup win.” I literally start shaking in anxiety during communion because I receive COTT, and it’s such an uncommon practice in our church that the EMHC doesn’t know what to do most times and tries to “bless” instead .

Hmmm our priest will tell a joke during the homily…but other then that…he does not mess with the Mass nor does he break character…because…as he say…he is not up there for our entertainment…

What makes it worse was that while I was attending the FSSP parish, the priest explained what Mass actually was, the Paschal Sacrifice, and why we’re there every Sunday, (No one ever taught me this in my 13 years of Catholic education.) I guess we are lucky…in a little over a year our priest has explained a couple of times what Mass actually is…and why its a sin to miss it.

And this is all in the OF form…

 

[ConstantineTG]

A disco? Seriously? I have NEVER been to an OF Mass that even came close to resembling a disco! Even the later Mass (which I don’t really like because there is too much talking before Mass) doesn’t even come close. Nor does it’s sound even sound 1/10 as loud as a Protestant service. A disco? isn’t that just a tiny bit melodramatic?

I too haven’t seen the kind of things people here describe. Sometimes I wonder if such stories are true or it could be someone with some kind of agenda making things up (I’m not saying this is the case here on this thread). But in any case if it happened in one parish, its wrong to assume its that way everywhere.

 

[roadsend]

I too haven’t seen the kind of things people here describe. Sometimes I wonder if such stories are true or it could be someone with some kind of agenda making things up (I’m not saying this is the case here on this thread). But in any case if it happened in one parish, its wrong to assume its that way everywhere.

Yup. Thank God it is not everywhere. The overwhelming majority of Masses here are at least valid, if not licit. Not so much in my sisters parish (e.g. corn in the altar bread)
Photos of some of the kind of things people here describe are easily found using internet search engines.
They are real.

 

[PennyinCanada]

If there is an Eastern rite Divine Liturgy close by, you might find that it suits you better. Here, the churches may offer 2 Liturgies, one in English, or a single bi-lingual Liturgy.
I often keep my eyes closed, just so I can listen to the words better rather than noticing the cute little outfit the baby has on in front of me.
My sympathies to your struggles.

 

[Paxvobis]

My parish has really deteriorated in the five years that our current priest moved there. Reverence is at an all time low and the priest turns Mass into a joke, especially when the deacon is up there with him and they start telling jokes off each other. I felt like I was having a heart attack when the priest invited a kid wearing a Canuck’s jersey up to the Sanctuary steps so everyone could laugh at him for being a Canuck’s fan, and last week I knelt down and cried after Mass because the priest actually instructed the families wearing Bruins jerseys by name to stand up so we could all “acknowledge their Stanley Cup win.”

I’m shocked after reading that! Are you sure you didn’t accidently go to a sports bar for Mass? I can’t believe the priest did that to that kid!

“acknowledge their Stanley Cup win” !?

Regardless, my parish which I was describing earlier at least celebrates the Mass without blatant irreverence. I’d die if I had to go to what you just described every week!

What makes it worse was that while I was attending the FSSP parish, the priest explained what Mass actually was, the Paschal Sacrifice, and why we’re there every Sunday, (No one ever taught me this in my 13 years of Catholic education.)

I know exactly how you feel. I went to Catholic school from Kindergarden through 6th Grade and I never remember being taught about the Mass as a sacrifice. I never remember being taught about mortal sin, and the necessity of going to confession while in mortal sin. My entire generation in my family, all of which went to Catholic school for at least 7 years and at most through college, are all ‘fallen-away’ except me. My sister’s Catholic high school was filled with the same problems that pervade public schools (drugs, sex, some corruption, etc).

We live in a culture that is intensely skeptical of religion in general and Catholicism in particular. If we are going to not fall to it, we must live and teach authentic Catholicism, not some watered down version. We have to preach the Catholic faith completely and in all of its intellectual fullness. We’re a smart religion, grounded in thousands of years of philosophy. We’re not backwards, gullible people who worship a ‘sky god’ and pray to ‘imaginary friends’ like the atheists like to paint us as. Either we’re going to tell the story of Catholicism: its dogmas, its history, its traditions, its cultural influences, or it’s not going to be told truthfully!

Catholic schools exist to perpetuate these things (Catholic culture, tradition, teaching, etc.) so we can survive this culture, and perhaps, save souls. It’s time for them to wake up and start doing it better!

Anyway, enough with my rant.

 

[PJM]

=Paxvobis;8035376] I’m shocked after reading that! Are you sure you didn’t accidently go to a sports bar for Mass? I can’t believe the priest did that to that kid!

“acknowledge their Stanley Cup win” !?

Regardless, my parish which I was describing earlier at least celebrates the Mass without blatant irreverence. I’d die if I had to go to what you just described every week!

I know exactly how you feel. I went to Catholic school from Kindergarden through 6th Grade and I never remember being taught about the Mass as a sacrifice. I never remember being taught about mortal sin, and the necessity of going to confession while in mortal sin. My entire generation in my family, all of which went to Catholic school for at least 7 years and at most through college, are all ‘fallen-away’ except me. My sister’s Catholic high school was filled with the same problems that pervade public schools (drugs, sex, some corruption, etc).

We live in a culture that is intensely skeptical of religion in general and Catholicism in particular. If we are going to not fall to it, we must live and teach authentic Catholicism, not some watered down version. We have to preach the Catholic faith completely and in all of its intellectual fullness. We’re a smart religion, grounded in thousands of years of philosophy. We’re not backwards, gullible people who worship a ‘sky god’ and pray to ‘imaginary friends’ like the atheists like to paint us as. Either we’re going to tell the story of Catholicism: its dogmas, its history, its traditions, its cultural influences, or it’s not going to be told truthfully!

Catholic schools exist to perpetuate these things (Catholic culture, tradition, teaching, etc.) so we can survive this culture, and perhaps, save souls. It’s time for them to wake up and start doing it better!

Anyway, enough with my rant.

I am blessed with 12 years of catholic Educationand I WAS taught correctly on each of the points you raise. Maybe it’s a age differenvce thing? I gradualted HS in 1963

God Bless,
Pat