Any converts from atheism/agnosticism?

[San_Patricio]

As a former atheist, I’d like to throw in the two things that lead me to the Church:

First, the realisation the atheist position relies as much upon FAITH that God doesn’t exist as the Catholic postion that He does. I know atheists don’t agree with this, but I’ve heard all the arguments, and they’re about as difficult to take apart with simple logic as a beer bottle is with a shotgun. I used to play devil’s advocate with a friend of mine who was a scientist and present the same point to him, that all of his beliefs in science and no-god relied esentially on FAITH. This was while I was still an atheist. I began to realise (against my will!) that my arguments were right and that God must exist. That probably doesn’t help you much.

The second thing was the integrity, morality, and coherence of Catholicism. Nowhere else in the world will you find a set of teachings that is as consistent as those in the Catholic Church. It was this consistency and clarity of teaching that drew me to the Church. That probably doesn’t help either.

The only other thing that I can add is to keep praying. Ask God to give you Faith. Be honest with Him, he knows your heart anyway. Tell Him that you feel like you’re talking to yourself sometimes (I hear that’s pretty common). Say “I believe, Lord, help my unbelief”. Just keep at it. Even many of the saints had periods where they didn’t feel His presence.

Anyway, good luck & God bless!

 

[Nan_S]

As for your comments on the Bible… I find this the least convincing part of your argument. Should we also trust that Greek mythology is the truth? What about the Koran, or texts from other religions? Some people write fiction they never meant to be passed off as the truth… but they don’t always specifically say that it is fiction. Some people fervently believe something is true even if it isn’t.

As for the news stories today, these are events that can be verified again through direct observation or by speaking with enough witnesses who tell the same story. I can’t confirm with the Gospel writers, and from my research it seems that there is an utter lack of sources which validate in any way the miraculous claims in the Bible. You’d think that people who witnessed miracles would be writing letters to their friends about them or detailing their stories in some other lasting fashion.

It also seems that many doubt the Bible was even written during the lifetimes of the apostles, despite the traditional author assignments. If this were true, all the stories might be exaggerations or legends.

Miraculous claims require solid evidence. I’m not saying I know for a fact the Bible is false because I certainly don’t. But there is so much controversy surrounding it that I haven’t yet found it helpful at all.

Try these three books by Lee Strobel, a former hardline atheist turned Christian:

The Case for Christ
The Case for Faith
The Case for a Creator

They’re to-the-point and very readable.

These three very well researched books are his own conversion story, documenting the irrefutable evidence he confronted that the Bible is true, reliable, and accurate. No other religion or set of scriptures can make that claim.

Nan

 

[Jessamy]

Hello again,

I am done with school for a few weeks and I now have my Christmas shopping done as well! Finally there is time to consider some more of the points presented to me. I am very grateful for all the responses, if a little bit overwhelmed by how much reading and responding I have yet to do.

To Steadfast love:

There are only two steps to having faith and I wonder… are you confusing them?

1. You need to receive “The Faith.” I think you have received The Faith already since you know about the Catholic Church and you’ve read the Gospels. There’s no need to wait to receive it you already have it.

1. You choose to “have faith” (in God.) This is your choice. You don’t need a special feelings or the facts to back it up. It’s your life and you get to choose in whom you place your trust. Choosing to pray even when you feel silly is an example of having faith by the way.

I appreciate this explanation; it is one of the clearer ones I have heard. I feel often that I am missing out on something, and maybe its just that I have not yet made the choice you speak of in number 2. I know better than to look for absolute proof, but I guess I’m waiting for something to push me to one side or another. I want to be objective about this, but at the same time I wonder whether I really should be. If there is a God, then perhaps my boyfriend is in my life precisely to help me see that. Trying not to consider my feelings and trust in him would then be pretty silly.

To JezuUfamTobie:

I guess I also worked my way backward through morality, in part. God gave me the gift of a fairly strong conscience, even when I didn’t believe in Him. I knew, for example, that pornography was gravely disordered, and that I would never want to marry a man who engaged in such things. But nearly all the nice men who didn’t engage in such things also believed in God… coincidence? From there my soul grew a distaste for slander, lying, the belief that smart & beautiful people are worth more than retarded & ugly people etc. My love for God (who is all-good and all-loving) grew out of my increasing horror of all things evil.

This describes how I feel quite well. I also have very strong feelings about morality, which have certainly played a large part in my interest in religion. I have discovered in the past year that not only were many of the feelings I have had compatible with Catholicism, some Catholic ideas are even better I have few doubts about Catholic morality, and the ones I wonder about would go away if I was sure I believed in the Christian God. I would love to hear more about your conversion.

 

[blossom02]

Just the fact that you have come here to beg the answers from us proves the work of God to me. I know this is probably not aparent to you. God calls us to Him in many different ways and he has given you your life and a husband who just happens to be catholic. God never ceases to call us to Him and His church. My husband wasn’t taught religion at all and had no thoughts of it one way or the other. I was patient and just let God do His work and today my husband is a very devout catholic. So be patient with God, He can work very fast but usually works slowly.

Pray, even though it is uncomfortable to you(after all if there is no God then who will know). Ask God to lead you to truth. Ask God to help you to understand. God doesn’t speak to us the way that we speak to each other. God comunicates with us in the silence and quiet. If we are to busy and don’t shut of the world we cannot hear Him speak to us interiorly. Give yourself some silent time each day even if it is 5 minutes or so and pray.

 

[cyberjacques]

So be patient with God, He can work very fast but usually works slowly.

I think you’re right. It’s only fair that we be patient with God, considering how infinitely patient He is with us. As for working fast, it does happen. Take me, for instance. I don’t fully understand why, but my conversion has been very rapid. If there’s a holy howitzer of conversion, I think I’ve been stuffed into it and fired across the battlefield. And God has been so very comforting to me on my trajectory, because it can be scary sometimes. I’m still nervous about the impending impact. So Jessamy, don’t lose heart. God will be there when you land.

Ask God to help you to understand.

Excellent advice. This is the one prayer to which I have never received the answer “No”. Though sometimes the answer seems to be “Later”.

 

[_A]

My recommendation, for what it is worth, is to yield the requirement of your brain to the need of your heart. Do you want to believe in God? If you do, believe.

I see this quite often. If you want to believe, you have to disengage your brain and think with an organ never intended for that.
I say NEVER stop questioning. Never stop thinking. If there is a god who made you, he made you a critical thinker. Be true to yourself, and accept nothing uncritically.
Most of all, do not pretend to believe. If what the catholics say is true, that would be blasphemy anyway.

 

[Steadfast_love]

The primary requirement of Christian faith is to love (love God and love neighbor) that is why your heart is of primary importance.

The mind can not understand God, nor can the eye see Him. They’re great organs for what they do, but you can’t expect them to percieve God. Use them for holding a job, remembering directions and driving safely to and from mass but don’t mistake that for the one and only form of authentic Christianity – love.

 

[ThereseMarie]

If what the catholics say is true, that would be blasphemy anyway.

Pardon, but I think you need to check your use of the word ‘blasphemy’ here, as it is incorrect (in the Catholic sense, and also according to several dictionaries I consulted) . Anyway, no matter I guess, as this thread is nearly a year old!

BTW, I thought your picture of the fish was amazing! My father used to fish a WHOLE lot. He was an atheist too.

See ya later,

 

[_A]

Pardon, but I think you need to check your use of the word ‘blasphemy’ here, as it is incorrect (in the Catholic sense, and also according to several dictionaries I consulted) . Anyway, no matter I guess, as this thread is nearly a year old!

BTW, I thought your picture of the fish was amazing! My father used to fish a WHOLE lot. He was an atheist too.

See ya later,

You don’t think that lying about Yahweh would be blasphemy ? What an odd stance…

 

[ThereseMarie]

Most of all, do not pretend to believe. If what the catholics say is true, that would be blasphemy anyway.

Sorry if I misunderstood you . The quote above says that to ‘pretend to believe’ would be blasphemy. The quote doesn’t say anything about “lying about Yahweh.” Anyway, blasphemy is about grave sins against the Second Commandment. Nothing “odd” about my statement at all. Why don’t you look it up? Check the CCC #2148.

BTW, a simple ‘Mea culpa’ is fine… (Even the most brilliant of us make mistakes once in awhile. )

 

[_A]

Sorry if I misunderstood you . The quote above says that to ‘pretend to believe’ would be blasphemy. The quote doesn’t say anything about “lying about Yahweh.” Anyway, blasphemy is about grave sins against the Second Commandment. Nothing “odd” about my statement at all. Why don’t you look it up? Check the CCC #2148.

BTW, a simple ‘Mea culpa’ is fine… (Even the most brilliant of us make mistakes once in awhile. )

I think pretending to believe when you don’t is the worst kind of blasphemy. I would think this is lying about Yahweh. How can you justify this kind of blasphemy?

 

[ncgolf]

I see this quite often. If you want to believe, you have to disengage your brain and think with an organ never intended for that.

I see this quite often … the accusation the believer must disengage his brain so that he may believe as if the engagement of the brain precludes belief in the unseen.

 

[ThereseMarie]

I think pretending to believe when you don’t is the worst kind of blasphemy. I would think this is lying about Yahweh. How can you justify this kind of blasphemy?

OK, now ya lost me. How am I justifying blasphemy? I simply informed you of the correct definition of a word in the Catholic sense, since you didn’t seem to understand it. Just because you think “pretending to believe when you don’t is the worst kind of blasphemy” doesn’t mean that is the correct use of the word ‘blasphemy’.

You seem to be getting emotional instead of just looking up the word “blasphemy.” Or could it be that humility is something else you don’t believe in?

And BTW, don’t you think that an atheist warning someone not to ‘blaspheme’ Yahweh is also “odd” ?

“Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!”

 

[_A]

OK, now ya lost me. How am I justifying blasphemy? I simply informed you of the correct definition of a word in the Catholic sense, since you didn’t seem to understand it. Just because you think “pretending to believe when you don’t is the worst kind of blasphemy” doesn’t mean that is the correct use of the word ‘blasphemy’.

You seem to be getting emotional instead of just looking up the word “blasphemy.” Or could it be that humility is something else you don’t believe in?

And BTW, don’t you think that an atheist warning someone not to ‘blaspheme’ Yahweh is also “odd” ?

“Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!”

Quite odd. Thanks for noticing.
blas·phe·my /ˈblæsfəmi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[blas-fuh-mee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -mies.

1. impious utterance or action concerning God or sacred things.
2. Judaism.
   a. an act of cursing or reviling God.
   b. pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton (YHVH) in the original, now forbidden manner instead of using a substitute pronunciation such as Adonai.
3. Theology. the crime of assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God.
4. irreverent behavior toward anything held sacred, priceless, etc.: He uttered blasphemies against life itself.
   I think that pretending that you believe falls clearly into the first category. Not the second. **Does **the third (because if you don’t believe, but pretend to, are you not creating yourself a god?).
   The fourth, DEFINITELY. If you pretend to believe in one god, yet it is the wrong god.
   Notice I used the dictionary definition. This protects me from being mislead by the faithful.
   I know it is a bit of a stretch to call it blasphemy for you, but it is without question lying to yourself (and a god if there is one) to pretend belief.

 

[Steadfast_love]

Yes I see that but words have meaning.

Hypocrisy means to fake belief, blasphemy means to insult God. One might result from another but it’s spurious to say that they are therefore the same.

None of the official definitions matches the definition you gave: “I think pretending to believe when you don’t is the worst kind of blasphemy.” Your attempts to make it fit are no better than saying that “wet” is the correct name of the the Nile because you “…think the Nile is the wettest kind of wet.”

True, the Nile is a river and rivers are wet, and yes if someone (a young child perhaps) shouted “wet wet!” we might guess that they are actually speaking of the Nile but only if we presume that their intellect is young and unformed. Shall I presume that about you?

 

[_A]

Yes I see that but words have meaning.

Hypocrisy means to fake belief, blasphemy means to insult God. One might result from another but it’s spurious to say that they are therefore the same.

None of the official definitions matches the definition you gave: “I think pretending to believe when you don’t is the worst kind of blasphemy.” Your attempts to make it fit are no better than saying that “wet” is the correct name of the the Nile because you “…think the Nile is the wettest kind of wet.”

True, the Nile is a river and rivers are wet, and yes if someone (a young child perhaps) shouted “wet wet!” we might guess that they are actually speaking of the Nile but only if we presume that their intellect is young and unformed. Shall I presume that about you?

So if you pick the wrong god to pretend to believe in, is that blasphemy? I must admit I thought making false statements about Yahweh (or whichever god you choose) was blasphemy.

 

[davidv]

So if you pick the wrong god to pretend to believe in, is that blasphemy? I must admit I thought making false statements about Yahweh (or whichever god you choose) was blasphemy.

Making a false statement about what you believe, doesn’t say anything about God. It is only about yourself.

 

[Jessamy]

Well I’m annoyed that my thread got brought back from the dead so that people could argue inanely. To be honest, I didn’t find it all that helpful to begin with, but most of that was on my end. Its hard to find the time to read all the comments and respond, and in the end I decided it was better to keep searching on my own and talking with the people in my life. And I have. It’s been a year since I started this thread and I’m still not sure where I’m headed. But the arguments here of late are definitely not helpful and I wish you’d start your own threads to have them on.

Obviously I can’t stop you unless I get the thread locked down but as the OP maybe you’ll listen to me?

On the other hand, if someone has a productive point to make I wouldn’t mind hearing it, though I don’t promise to respond either. I’d just appreciate it if you kept the real intent of the thread in mind when making posts.

 

[ThereseMarie]

So if you pick the wrong god to pretend to believe in, is that blasphemy?

Who is talking about “pretending to believe” in anything (besides you)? The poster you were warning not to blaspheme was being advised that if she truly wanted to believe in God, then she should simply have faith in God. She was not being told to pretend to believe. The words ‘have faith’ do not equal the word ‘pretend’ (even if you think they do). Perhaps, though I misunderstood you.

Anyway, I know many atheists and agnostics (not sure which you are) challenge people to prove (to their satisfaction) that God exists. There are plenty of things that one can have faith about that we have never seen with our eyes (electrons, the structure of the oxygen molecule, gravity, the fact that there will be a dawn tomorrow, the love of a spouse) that do not require us to withhold all reason or to lie. If you say,“Gravity can be proven by its effect on everything in the universe,” then I say, “The same is true for God.” You say, “You cannot prove God to my satisfaction,” then I say, “Just because you do not believe, doesn’t mean God doesn’t exist.”

And, sincerely, I am very sorry for your sake that you are unable to believe. I truly am. I have talked to so many people who say that without belief in God and the hereafter, this world and life itself would have no meaning whatsoever. I try to imagine a life without God (it’s hard, because I have to withold all reason and critical thinking to do it), and I think, “What would be the point of… anything?” I guess that it is a good thing that you can find meaning in life when you believe there is no reason for your existence and nothing for you after you die.

I must admit I thought making false statements about Yahweh (or whichever god you choose) was blasphemy.

If you really care to know, look up the CCC reference I gave you. You can probably see it online. And if you really give a hoot about people blaspheming God, stop writing His name with a lower case ‘g’

 

[ThereseMarie]

Well I’m annoyed that my thread got brought back from the dead so that people could argue inanely. To be honest, I didn’t find it all that helpful to begin with, but most of that was on my end. Its hard to find the time to read all the comments and respond, and in the end I decided it was better to keep searching on my own and talking with the people in my life. And I have. It’s been a year since I started this thread and I’m still not sure where I’m headed. But the arguments here of late are definitely not helpful and I wish you’d start your own threads to have them on.

Obviously I can’t stop you unless I get the thread locked down but as the OP maybe you’ll listen to me?

On the other hand, if someone has a productive point to make I wouldn’t mind hearing it, though I don’t promise to respond either. I’d just appreciate it if you kept the real intent of the thread in mind when making posts.

Sorry you are annoyed. Sometimes what some see as ‘inane’ may actually be helpful to others on the same or even a different path. I for one, liked reading some of the stories here, and one of them really made me think. So maybe your thread was helpful to other people, even if not to you.

There is so much reading to do, and so little time. I believe your decision to keep searching for the Truth on your own is a good one. I can say is that in my case (n=1), that was the only way that I got there (that and mom’s prayers).

God bless you,